Rebecca Giordano

Melissa: I'm here with Rebecca. February 24th, 2023 at Voces Ciudadanas. We're going to start off with a little bit of your background, personal information. Where were you born and where's your family from?

Rebecca: I was born at Maimonides Hospital, which is right over here on 9th Avenue. I live still, actually, in the house I grew up in, which is really crazy because nobody's that lucky. I'm from 52nd Street and my family— My dad is Italian, his parents are from Italy and he was born in Park Slope, but then his family bought a house in Sunset when he was maybe in middle school or something. He lived in Sunset [Park] from middle school on. And then my mom, her parents are both from Germany. They're both German Jewish and they have a crazy love story that involves meeting in a concentration camp and all this crazy stuff. But they wound up reconnecting in America and lived in the Heights [Washington Heights].

My mom grew up in Washington Heights and then she met my dad and moved to Sunset. And then they stayed here together, for a long time. They live in Staten Island now, but they lived here up until a few years ago, in the house that I grew up in.

Melissa: So, this is where you're from?

Rebecca: This is where I'm from.

Melissa: This is home.

Rebecca: Yes. This is the only home I really have. I've only really left— I left for college. I went to school up in Massachusetts and that was the first time I really left New York and that was crazy. And then, when I first moved back to New York, I swore I was never going to live with my family again [laughs]. And that I was not gonna come to Sunset. I lived in Windsor Terrace for two years and then after two years in Windsor Terrace I needed somewhere to live and moved back into my parents' place. They had created an apartment out of one part of the house. I was like, “Oh, how about I move in, I need somewhere to live for a little while. I'll pay you like a little bit of rent and get on my feet.” And they were like, “Okay, that's fine.” I moved into the top floor of the house and then basically just stayed there.

Then eventually I got a roommate and was like, “Can I just stay here?” I stayed and then I had kids and then eventually a few years ago they moved to Staten Island. So now I live like on the downstairs part [of the house]—

Melissa: It’s your house now?—

Rebecca: I mean it still belongs to them, but it feels like my house [laughs].

Melissa: What languages are spoken at home? 
 
Rebecca: Just English.

Melissa: English?

Rebecca: Yes, just English. I've been trying to learn Spanish my whole life because everyone I know speaks Spanish. But my Spanish is terrible. I can understand a lot of Spanish since I just grew up around it, but when I try to speak it, I'm like, yeah, no, I suck at this [laughs].

Melissa: Yeah, I can kind of relate [laughter] I've been trying to learn Spanish and it just hasn't been working but—

Rebecca: It's so hard. That's why I always tell anyone I know who's bilingual when they're apologizing for their English, I'm just like, “You don't even know. You're amazing for being able to speak two languages. I can barely get through one in a quarter [sic] of a language.”

Melissa: I understand that. Can you tell me about a childhood memory?

Rebecca: Oh man, I was thinking about this after I saw the thing and I was like, I don't even know.

I don't— I have a very crappy memory. A lot of times like my childhood memories are all very confused. But, I was thinking about how I feel really lucky that when I was a kid, we had the backyard in my house, since my parents— things were so different then, because you could buy a house. Regular people could buy houses. I grew up with a backyard and one of my favorite things was always the 4th of July, my dad would always go buy all these fireworks. We would go to Chinatown and he'd buy all these fireworks. Which I'm sure it wasn't legal [laughs]. Then we would go in the backyard and we'd shoot off all the fireworks, all one after another after another. That was always like my favorite time of year. Something about it was really fun because. Me and my siblings would all be together, and we'd all be doing it. And it was always the first time that we would see fireflies for the year too. I remember that was the marker for me of summer. We'd be out there, we'd shoot the fireworks off and then the fireflies would be out and I'd be like, it's summer [laughs].

Melissa: I feel like fireflies have disappeared—

Rebecca: A little—

Melissa: —I don't see them at all.

Rebecca: I don't see them as much because— I'm in the same house and now that I live downstairs, my kids are in the backyard now. I'll see them a little in the summer, but it's not like it used to be.

Melissa: You can just be walking and you're— a light flashing in your face.

Rebecca: Yes. I don't know what it is. But that's one of my favorite things to think about.

Melissa: Okay, so you already kind of said that Sunset is home to you. This question is not even relevant. [laughs]

Rebecca: Yeah, some of it I know is a little different because so many people — my story is kind of unique since I grew up here and my dad grew up here too, because most people, everyone else I know immigrated here. Not everyone— I guess I have a few friends that they grew up here, their parents are immigrants, then they grew up here. But I know that's more rare. More of my friends, it's that they immigrated here from somewhere.

Melissa: You kind of already touched on why you decided to come back. What keeps you here?

Rebecca: Honestly, I just can't imagine anywhere else feeling like home. I always say that I wish I'd been born in a small town because I would've been someone that would be happy in a small town. I don't need a lot. I don't really like change and I like feeling like I can walk down the street and think of fifty things that happened on that corner. I don't need change or difference or anything. I like that, which is hard when you're from New York because everything's changing all the time and there's just so much. I stay just because where else would I go? [Laughs] It's the only place that I could imagine feeling like myself and feeling like, if I'm on my street I always feel safe. I know even if it's the middle of the night. I'm like, this is my street. Nobody can do anything here. No matter what, I'm going to know someone or I can yell or I can ring someone's bell.

Even thinking sometimes— there was a period where I thought we were going to have to move, me and my partner and my kids. I thought we might have to move at one point out of my parents' house. And he kept saying to me, “Well, we'll just like look around and we can stay in the neighborhood but live on a different street.” I was like, “[gasps] A different street? Like what? Even imagining moving to, like 45th Street felt to me— I wouldn't know anyone on that street. I think it's just my personality. I love Sunset and I could name it also things I love, but for me I think it's just my personality is very small town so I'm like, can I stay here forever, please? [laughs]

Melissa: Do you mind naming the things you love about Sunset Park?

Rebecca: I love that there's children everywhere. Even before I had kids, I loved that. I loved being able to walk down the street and talk to random children who hit me with their ball or something. Then, after I had kids I loved it even more because it was so great to feel like you're in community everywhere you go.

I love that so many of the stores still are regular mom and pop kind of stores. We don't have a lot of chain shops or big business around here still. There's a little, but I just don't go to those places. It feels like people look out for each other. I feel even if I'm not on my exact street, I do still feel a sense of someone's keeping an eye out and I feel secure. Which is really nice. I love music. I like that there's a lot of music and my block is kind of quiet now. It used to have more music but the families that would play music all have moved. But around the corner there's this house that always in the summer they're playing music all night long and I love that. I know everybody else hates that probably, but I love it. It's my favorite thing. Those are probably the things [laughs].

Melissa: Have you noticed any big changes? Since you've been here, your family's been here, what have you witnessed in terms of the change of Sunset Park?

Rebecca: To be honest, because I don't live close to— like Sunset Park's interesting. Because I don't feel actually like it's that different than when I was a kid. I think the ethnic groups that are here have shifted but the culture is the same. That's what's interesting. Because when I was a kid my block was mostly Italian and Puerto Rican. Then it kind of shifted and most of the, all the Italians and white people mostly left except maybe my family and three or four other families. Now my block is mostly Chinese and a little bit Puerto Rican and Mexican and a few white families. It's a little mixed, but it's mostly Chinese. But it still feels like the same block because people are doing the same thing still. People are still playing outside or sitting on their stoop or whatever. It is not like there's some huge change in that sense. But I do notice if I walk closer to the park or closer to the train, then it feels different.

Then it'll be like, oh damn, some of the stores feel different. It'll be more fancy and, I don't know. Not drastic. It's not the same as other neighborhoods that have gentrified so much that you're like, “Oh my god!” The feel of it is the same to me. The biggest difference is just the price of things though because I know when my parents got the house that I live in, my dad was just a teacher and neither of them came from money or had anything. But they were able to save up. They lived on 4th Avenue in a flower shop at first. I think they said they owned this little storefront and it was a flower shop. Then they saved up and they bought this [house]—maybe they moved to one other apartment and then they bought this house. It's not like it put them out that bad. Then they had a mortgage for like twenty-five years or something and paid off their mortgage. Now I don't even have a mortgage on the house. But if I were to sell it—I mean I would never sell it but that house is worth, like a million dollars right now.

No one I know can buy a house. Not one person I know can buy a house. The only people I know who live in houses are— there's maybe one other person I know who grew up here, whose family also is in a similar situation. She's in a house and other than that, everyone I know is either jumping from apartment to apartment or has been displaced. Because it's just so expensive and anytime somebody asks me, “Do you know any [of] apartments? I'm just like, no.” That feels like the biggest change and is stressful obviously to people that have to move. For me I feel really lucky because I know I'm in a secure housing space. But then I do a lot of times think about, well what am I going to do in fifteen years if everyone I know is gone? Will it still feel like home? Will it still feel like my community if every other person I know has to leave? I don't know. I mean I hope that shifts in a way where people could stay. But I think that's the biggest change that I see and that feels very stressful.

Melissa: You touched on some things that you identify as potential issues or that are issues right now. To tie in the community, what was the first organization you connected with?

Rebecca: The very first organization— when I was graduating college, I got this fellowship that was really cool. They basically said pick any organization that does environmental work and you need to pick a mentor and then you design a project, you can do anything. And they gave us 40,000 thousand dollars. Like the most money—wait was it twenty or forty? No, I think it was forty. Oh no, maybe it was twenty. But still an insane amount of money for a year of your life. Maybe. I don't remember which one. It was one of those amounts of money. This is how I know I'm getting old when you don't remember the difference between that [laughs]. All I know, it was so much money, and you gave part of the money to the organization and then the rest you use to support yourself and to fund the entire project. I wound up connecting with Uprose and they were doing environmental justice work.

I didn't know them at all, but I wound up connecting with them. I reached out and said, “Hey I'm about to graduate college. I'm from Sunset Park, too and I want to do something.” They accepted me there. I spent about a year and a half at Uprose and I got to design a youth video project. I used the fellowship to pay for, basically to start a video project there because they didn't have any component like that. I was training the teens that were part of Uprose on how to make videos and then they were making environmental justice videos, which was really awesome and fun. I did that for a year and a half. I didn't have a great experience at the organization itself, but I loved obviously working with teens and being back in the neighborhood for that. Then after a year and a half I couldn't— the fellowship was over so then I was on staff there for a little while and then I was just like, I got to get out of  here. It was not a great work environment. So, I left and then I wasn't doing anything for a while and then I had this— this is like when I look back and I'm like, how did that happen?

Because I was thinking a lot after reading these questions. So then when I wound up working in a bakery and living my life. I was really into teaching because I'd been doing the video project and I was feeling a little bit not sure what I wanted to do next. Then, somehow, I was talking with a friend of mine and I started talking about schools in Sunset Park and basically me and a few people came up with this idea, that we were going to start a new school in Sunset. We wanted to start a sixth through twelfth grade school that was going to be devoted to social justice. And it was at this time in New York when you could start a new school. They had this whole department called the Office of New Schools at that time and literally community groups could design an application and the city would open your school. We learned about this and we were like, “Yes, this is what we want to do.” For the next, it must have been five years, I was working on that. We built an entire team. We did all this outreach and had a thousand meetings with anyone who would talk to us in the neighborhood we would meet with.

We built up this really cool team of folks, mostly people from Sunset. There were a few people that weren't from Sunset that just had skills that we thought were helpful. The rest of the core, it was people like me that grew up in the neighborhood. At first we started off in this route where we thought we were going to be at charter school because someone had told us, “oh that's the best way if you're trying to do something really dynamic.” But then we met with all these charter school people, and they were so creepy, and we were like, “Oh, no. This is a lie. Charter schools aren't for community. Charter schools are big businesses that are for profit a lot of times.” We were like, “No, no, no, we're not doing that.” We switched gears and we tried to do the public school route through this Office of New Schools and then ultimately they turned us down. We applied three years in a row, I think it was. The reason they turned us down was because of space. They had no problem with our application. We had someone lined up to be principal who was this amazing guy that lived in the neighborhood. We had people ready to apply to be teachers. We had an entire curriculum design.

It was really probably the most solid thing I've done in my life. But every time they would say to us, “We're turning you down because of space, because there's no space in your community.” And we would say to them, “We know there's no space in our community.” We had a whole part of our project [that] was identifying spaces. This was a little bit before Voces [Ciudadanas] was around, I think. That's why I was really excited when I learned about Voces and I was like, “Oh my God, this is exactly—” I think at the same moment in time we were kind of doing similar work and so, we had this huge list, you could put a school here, you could put a school here. But we didn't have the organizing capability that Voces wound up having later. We didn't even know how to do that I don't think. Our focal point was on the design of the school, so we didn't really know how to do what they wound up doing, which was so amazing. They just kept turning us down and turning us down and then one year I remember us saying to them, can you just say yes and then we'll find a space? And we were like, we'll find money. We'll do everything. Just say yes to us.

And they were so smart, the city's so smart because they were like, “No, we're not going to say “yes” to you because if we say yes now you can fight us and say, will you say yes? You have to build us a space.” And we were like, get out of our heads [laughs]. Because that was definitely our plan, to be cool. We had a whole campaign we were going to do. We're like, “Ah damn.” Eventually, our team just fell apart. It was so much. People got new jobs and moved on and I think I might have had my son by the end of that. I don't know. It was just a lot. The project fell apart and we all moved on.

Melissa: Okay. I'm new to Sunset Park [laughs].

Rebecca: Oh, [laughs] welcome.

Melissa: —I believe there was a movement because it [sic] was overcrowding in schools, and they were able to get some new schools open—

Rebecca: Yes. I mean, Voce really was at the forefront.

Melissa: Were you a part of that?

Rebecca: Not really, because by then, that came right after— we were three years too early probably, or five years too early, because when we were talking about it— everyone always has known that the schools were overcrowded here. I've known it my whole life.

My parents— I didn't go to school in Sunset. I went to school in Borough Park and my mom says that the reason is, I was supposed to go to PS 94, which is where my kid goes and right up the street from me. My mom says the reason I didn't go there is because it was already so overcrowded that they were busing kids from that school to PS 1, which is, I don’t know, ten blocks away or whatever. My parents were upset because they didn't want us to be on a bus going somewhere. My parents were intensely overprotective and so they didn't want us going over there. Instead, they wound up getting us—I think they probably lied about their address or something and got us into this school that was, what do you call it? A few blocks in the other direction. Me and my siblings all went to PS 160 then. That's going back thirty-five years that the schools were that overcrowded. It's the same thing, I was thinking about having kids and looking around at the schools.

They were all operating at a hundred, like 120% capacity, 150% capacity. The amount of overcrowding was so wild, and it was just accepted. It was just like, “Yep, that's how crowded the schools are in Sunset Park.” Then Voces really are the ones that did just amazing work getting the city to finally be like, “No, you have to build new schools. You can't just leave the schools like this.” They got the city then to agree to a whole bunch of new school constructions. Some of those already happened, some of them are underway. I think also with the pandemic, a lot of people left. I know the enrollment at my kids' school went down a lot because of the pandemic. I'm sure with rent being so high too, that's contributed. It's two things have happened to help with the school overcrowding now.

Melissa: Are you connected with any other organization currently, right now?

Rebecca: Yes. Right now, I'm a co-director of a community school project.

There's a funding source from the city where they give a non-profit organization funding to open inside of a school. The idea is that you provide unique wraparound services for anything that the school is missing. There's no requirements. It's not like you have to do X, Y, and Z. [You] find out what the school needs and you do it. I wound up getting a job doing that at PS 94, which is, like I said, where my kid goes and right up the street. I'd already been involved there on and off for other reasons for a bunch of years, even before my kids were there. I'm a co-director there. I supervise— we have two parts to what we do. One part is an afterschool program, which somebody else supervises and then I supervise the family services. A food pantry and adult English classes and workshops and we're doing a transition to middle school program for fifth graders and a bunch of other stuff like that.

Melissa: What motivates you?

Rebecca: I don’t know [laughs].

Melissa: After that, you told the story about working on something for five years, designing a whole curriculum and having the city continuously shut you down [laughs].

Rebecca: Yes. Well and then after, yeah —

Melissa: —like what keeps you? [laugh] —

Rebecca: —you kind, I don't even know. That's the hard thing about doing any kind of community work is that it's such an up and down thing. Because at the same time that I was working on that school project, we were called SPEAC. That was the name of the project. It was going to be S-P-E-A-C, so it was Sunset Park Education and Action Community School, that was going to be the name. When we were working on SPEAC at the same moment in time— I have this friend who passed away who, I wish you guys could meet because she was just the most amazing person I know. She grew up on 43rd Street and was my mentor on everything. Her name was Yvette Cabrera. She was part of our project to SPEAC and then she came to us one day while we were working on it and she was like, “Guys, did you hear about the rezoning that's happening in Sunset Park? We have to do something, blah, blah, blah.” And we were like, “I don't know anything about that.”

She wound up pulling us then into this other organization. This is the tail end of SPEAC. She pulled us into this other organization that was called SPAN. It was Sunset Park Alliance of Neighbors. It was mostly focused on 42nd and 43rd Street because it was the first big condo building that was trying to be built. It was on 42nd Street. A bunch of neighbors had got together and were like, “Hell no! We don't need a condo building, it's not going to be for our neighborhood. We're going to fight against this.” They formed this group and then they learned about how the city was trying to rezone Sunset Park to allow for taller constructions. I wound up joining that group also. As SPEAC ended, SPAN really started. For about five years I was part of that organization. We did an entire campaign to fight against the rezoning. We educated ourselves, we educated neighbors. Me and this other woman I know, we did this whole video about the rezoning.

We did so much stuff and then we lost. It’s one of those things when you're doing community work where it's so beautiful in the middle and you feel like you're part of something and you feel like you're always on the cusp of something great happening. You're like, “No, but we're really here, it's really going to happen.” And then, it's like the government is just so strong. And like forces against community development are so strong. It's just not the way of the world, I guess. I have to hope that one day there will be some success somewhere. Because it feels to me like this bubble that has to pop at some point. We can't, we can't go on like this forever I would think. I don't know, maybe I'm only forty-one, maybe it does go on like this. So I think what motivates me is, because this is my home it feels like the only option. Because sometimes when I'm not involved in any project, I'm content to just live my life and do what I'm doing

But then when I see something happening and other people I know are getting involved and it feels like there's a pathway to change, then it feels like, well why wouldn't I want to be a part of that? There's just so much room for improvement always. I like the community building part too. For me it's always about the community building. I like being in a group where I feel I'm home and I feel like I'm building family. I think that's more powerful than any win or loss, the things you do for each other in the middle. Even in small ways. In all of those projects that I was part of, the people I was organizing with became my family and if somebody was sick then people took care of them. Or if somebody was sad, people took care of them or someone needed food, someone took care of them. That's the beauty of all of it. Even during the pandemic, when everything first shut down, it was the worst period of my life because it felt like, I can't do the things that come most naturally.

We're in this crisis, but now I can't walk into someone's house. I can't give something to a friend. I can't have a friend come here. That was, to me, the most devastating part, that breakdown of community and the ability to support people in community. I know within my group of friends— at that point I wasn't working, I had been running this little tutoring program out of my house before the pandemic. But that had to stop obviously because nobody was going to anyone's houses. Then I was trying to support the school in different things. It all felt really empty, without being able to be in spaces with each other. And then luckily after the first six months, when September came back around and it was—if they announced that school was going to stay remote for the year if people wanted to. Then me and two friends, we sat down and we agreed, “All right we know we have to be careful, but we also are all slowly dying this way. What can we do?”

We formed a little pod the two of them would come with their kids to my house three times a week. We would do school all together and I was kind of the lead teacher, and they were the lead moms [laughs]. Suddenly I felt alive again because we were able to do it. That's what community is, you know? Because they couldn't have done the work with their kids that I could do. And I don't think I could have taken care of my kids the way they took care of my kids. It was this combo of, “All right, what can we each bring to the table? All right, let's do it and let's do it in a team.” That's been my whole experience of community organizing, is, I'm going to bring what I bring, you bring what you bring, and we're going to be a family by the end of it.

Melissa: Wow, that's powerful. I just kept thinking, oh my God, you're defining what community is. This is a definition of community. This is a little bit because now I'm curious. Do you think what forms or builds the community is when you guys have to get together and fight something or when it's down —there's always something to fight [laughter].

Or is that, when you feel more sense of community in those moments? Or even day-to-day things?

Rebecca: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. It's so interesting you say that because this has been a big thought on my mind lately. Because in PS 94, in the school that I work in, when I first started doing work at the school, there was this terrible principal, one of the worst people I've ever known. She no longer is on the board of education anymore. She never should have been there. She was abusive to staff, to parents, to children, to everybody. What initially brought people together was fighting against her. There were a few moments in time where I got to be part of really powerful groups of parents that were trying to fight against her. We kept, again it was a similar thing, [we] kept losing and losing. Then eventually she retired. But I personally, I think she was pushed out because of the parent organizing, that finally they couldn't ignore. It's interesting because now there's this amazing principal.

She's just so caring and giving and she listens to people and she's a visionary. You couldn't ask for a better principle. I find that there's more infighting than in our group. I've had some moments at my job where people aren't getting along and especially, there's a big ethnic divide still. There's always an ethnic divide in Sunset Park. It doesn't matter who it's between. It's like originally it's Italians and Puerto Ricans, then it's Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, then it's Puerto Ricans and Mexicans are together against Chinese [sic]. There's always like a divide. It started a few months ago, that divide started to feel really upsetting in the school. I had that moment where I thought, it's because we have nobody to fight against. So we're fighting against each other. I was like, this is terrible. I was so upset because I was like, damn, what was the point of us fighting against this bigger thing to then get to this beautiful space? And now we're all mad at each other. Why? I had a real crisis of faith because I was like, why am I even doing this work?

If at the end of the day we don't have someone to fight against, we can't be happy. Why? But I moved past my crisis of faith and we are able to work through a lot of things and now it's been pretty great. So, I do think when you have a common enemy it makes it easier to build community, because you don't have to pay attention to your differences. But I think the powerful thing is when you can get past that, and in those moments of calm still be working together, still be supporting each other. I think it's possible. I think it is harder though. I think it's harder when you don't have somebody to fight against [laughs].

Melissa: That's something we're learning about in school, tension. It seems like tension is going to always be there in terms of a fight for progress. Okay, that's just part of the process. It's part of the journey. And you're actually in it so—[laughter] to hear it being played out. It’s humbling in a way.

Rebecca: Yea, it is—

Melissa: [inaudible] It's just what it is. [laughs]

Rebecca: No, it really is

Melissa: And you’re still motivated. That’s the hope part.

Rebecca: —Yes, I think so. I think for me over the years I've had to come to terms with the fact that maybe I won't be motivated all the time. There were gaps in each of these things. There were gap years where I didn't know what I was doing and I felt kind of lost. Because when SPEAC ended I moved right into SPAN, so there wasn't really a gap. But then when the rezoning failed, we [at SPAN] tried to kind of redefine what we were working on. Because there's always something to work on. But the rezoning was what really had brought us together. Once we lost that, that group eventually kind of fell apart too. And then there was a couple years where I was like, what am I doing? I had my friendship group, so it was fun to see my friends and I had a job, so I did my job. But I was working at another non-profit here in the neighborhood, at an after-school. I was doing that.

But it felt a little empty because there wasn't, I don't know— if you're someone who does community organizing, you do feel a little empty when you're not working towards something bigger than just your day-to-day life, I think. I was feeling a little bit empty and then I had my kids, my first kid. That helped because I was like, okay, now I have a little project, I have a kid. Then I did some organizing outside of Sunset on different— I did some pro-Palestine organizing around the city. And I did, what else? I was doing some independent media stuff. I did other things for a little while. And then when I started the tutoring thing here in Sunset, that was exciting for me because then I was like, okay, cool. I have a little thing that I'm doing here again. That was nice because it was for work because I was getting paid, but I wasn't getting paid very much. I let people decide what they were going to pay me essentially. Because I wasn't super worried about money at the time.

That was nice actually, that, maybe is the only thing I've been able to do where I wasn't fighting or building, I was just existing and it actually was really great. It was really nice because—it was so weird how it started too, because there was this grandma on my street who's Chinese, who didn't speak any English. I knew her because my kids would play out front. Where my kid—I guess I only had one kid. Yes, I had my one kid who was older and then he had just been born and I would be out front with the kids and everything and I'd been tutoring one neighbor just a little bit. I think she heard that I had been tutoring this one neighbor. So literally I'm outside one day, he's six months old or something like that, I want to say. She walks over to me and then she grabs this other mom who's bilingual and she starts talking to her in, I don't know, a Chinese language. I'm not sure what language she was speaking. Then the other mom says to me, she wants you to tutor her granddaughter. I'm like, oh, okay, well I have the baby. I'm tutoring one person, but I'm not really sure.

She's like, “No, no, no, no. She wants you to tutor her granddaughter and her grandson and she's going to pay you.” And I'm like, okay, well I don't know. And she's like, “No—and she's going to watch your baby.” And I was like, what [laughs]? She explained, “She's going to watch your baby and she's going to pay you, though and you're going to tutor her grandkids and she's going to find other kids and you're going to tutor those kids too.” I'm like, okay, yeah? I'm like, sounds like a plan. We're going to do this in September. Sure. Sure enough, in September she shows up at my house with other moms and starts showing them my apartment, to show where this tutoring is going to happen. And I'm just kinda like, cool, thank you. And before I knew it, I had this group of six kids, one of them I brought into the group and then the other five she brought. Every day I would set up a table in my living room. I was just living on the top floor of the house at that time. I didn't have a lot of space, but I would set up a table and then she would come, and she would watch my baby in the other room and I would tutor all the kids and then that would be the end.

I did this every day after school and it was so awesome. It felt really fulfilling because I got to be with kids and then I knew my kid was safe. It was really amazing and like everybody would share a lot. She would always bring me food, and I'd be like, thank you. Sometimes on Saturday the kids would ring my bell and be like, “Can we just come play?” I'd be like, yeah, you can come play. That was probably actually the peak joy for me, was that first year of that tutoring club. I hadn't thought about that until this moment, but it really did feel like that was a moment of existing and not feeling empty. But I wasn't fighting anything. I just was enjoying it. And I did that for a while for the first—after three years of it, I started to feel a little like I needed something new, but I wasn't sure what to do. It had reshaped a little and then the pandemic started a little bit after that. I didn't have an option anyway.

I hadn't thought about that until just now. But it was really fun [laughs].

Melissa: That's a nice story.

Rebecca: Yes, it was so wild. She's my manager an option—
 
Melissa: —It’s like you didn’t have an option.

Rebecca: —I had no plan. I had definitely no option [laughs].

Melissa: —And it's not like she offered to pay and babysit so it's like [laughs], you could just say no.

Melissa: Yeah, it was like, okay [laughs]. It was so wild.

Melissa: Sounds like community [laugh].

Rebecca: Yes.

Melissa: I understand why she doesn't want to leave Sunset Park. This is home.

Rebecca: Yes.

Melissa: You know, it's not terrible.

Rebecca: Yes.

Melissa: Sounds great. Sounds great.

Rebecca: Well, I'm someone who's very go with the flow. I think I can go in either direction. There have been a lot of moments where I feel like I was a leader in something and that's been fine, although it's not my favorite to lead things. But I can do it and be okay or I can go with that flow. I just like being part of things. Because I remember a few friends of mine when I told them what was happening, they were like, “Why are you letting this grandma tell you what to do?”

And I was kind of like, wouldn't I? What am I doing with my life right now? Why wouldn't I tutor some kids in the afternoon every day? It just felt like it wasn't even a question actually. It really just felt like, thank you grandma for providing me with the— I felt like she was providing me with an opportunity, you know what I mean? To be a part of something and to contribute. I felt grateful to her for creating that space for me. And then I know in the same moment she felt grateful to me for tutoring her grandkids. That mutual aid idea is the key to everything. For me, I like that flow of being able to be in both roles. It's pretty rare that somebody asks me to help with something or do something and I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. Usually I'm like, oh my god, yes, I would love to fill out those papers with you [laughs]. Because it just feels so good to be a part of something.

Melissa: All right. You mentioned that you don't mind stepping into a leadership role.

You mentioned a lot of organizational work and stuff like that. Can you give a particular time or example when you initiated it and how that process was?

Rebecca: I would say with SPEAC with the school, I really was the one who initiated. I was the one who first had the idea and then went to each person, being like, hey, will you join this team? Can you help build this project out? I was seen as the leader of that project. We operated very organically and very, what's the word for it? Decisions were made non-hierarchically if that's the word for it. But definitely, I was the one that set the meetings and we met in my house and it was, everybody would— if there was work to be done, it would be like, oh, is Rebecca going to do that? That was something I feel like I initiated. The process was just talking to everyone I could think to talk to, it was so crazy. There's this restaurant, George's, that's on Fifth Avenue. It's a diner and me and some random group of people.

It was every week I would just have a meeting with somebody else there. While I was meeting with them I would be like, do you know anyone else I should be talking to? And then they would be like, “Oh, I know this one person. You should talk to them.” That's how our team got built out because it was how I met my friend Yvette, who passed away, was like that. I met with this guy David Galarza [phonetic], who I knew already from other stuff. I don't know how, I guess I knew him from my time at UPROSE. And I said, oh David, do you know—I didn't really—he wasn't necessarily someone I was thinking would be part of the team because he had his own life doing other stuff. But I was like, do you know anyone else in the neighborhood? Especially if they're a mom who might want to join this project? He was like, “Oh yeah, you have to meet my friend Yvette, she's amazing, you'll love her.” He gave me her number and then I called her and this is back pre-cell phones being the thing. I still had a landline, and I remember I left her message and then I came home one day and I had her message back on my landline being like, “Hi, this is Yvette, I'd love to meet with you.”

After that, she joins our team and then she became one of my best friends and we did so much organizing together after that. That was kind of the process. It was everybody would be like, “Yeah, talk to this person.” And then eventually a group would form. That's always been my process when I've been part of anything.

Melissa: How long was that usually— what's the timeline? If there is a timeline?

Rebecca: I think it's different for everything you're doing because it depends. In that case, because it was a slow process, it probably took us a year to build our team. And then after that first year was when we started doing the work. But then when we were in SPAN and we were working on the rezoning, that group formed within a few months because there was this immediate, “Oh my god, we need to get people here like right now.” I'm more of a fan of being intentional and slow process than I am something where you're like, we got to move. I think when you're trying to move fast, you make a lot more mistakes and you also alienate people a lot.

Because you're— a lot of people get stepped on and not everyone's voices can be included. But if you have the time to be slow and intentional, it's better because you have a chance then to make sure you're all on the same page and have everybody contribute. I love brainstorming sessions. I remember I was part of this other really short organizing campaign. It was when I was pregnant with my son, I had been working in PS 94 with the really terrible principal. I had gotten a job to supervise an after school program there. It was funded by the city and run by a nonprofit in the neighborhood. After the first year, the city said they were going to cut the funding. And that school had no afterschool program. It was a school with like 1,300 children and no afterschool program. It was like, this is crazy. The program only had like 120 slots, so it's not— it was crazy. I wound up creating this parent group to organize to save the afterschool program.

I also deceptively wanted to teach people some organizing, because I was like, we got to get this principal out of here. The best way to do that is if you have people who know how to organize. So, I was definitely eye-on-the-prize. Like, this is going to be cool. And it was really beautiful because even though we had a goal that was— we knew there was like a time clock, a ticking time bomb on top of us. We also did have some space. I remember we would every week learn another part of organizing together. I would get friends of mine to contribute ideas for me and teach me things and then I would bring it to the parent group. We built a campaign very intentionally. I remember teaching about how you identify who your targets are and then you identify which type of tactic you're going to use for those targets and who you're going to outreach to. It was just really very intentional in every meeting. Because also it was a very multilingual group. Folks spoke English, Spanish and Mandarin.

Our meetings had to be— everything had to be translated and so you couldn't just go in and be like, “now we're doing this. Okay, cool, we're out.” Everything had to be kind of slowed down for a second. I remember that space being—it was one of my favorite groups to be a part of because it was very intentional. Every step of it was like, “Okay, cool. Does everybody get it? Do we all know? All right, now let's fill this thing out together so we all agree about the tactic or we all agree about our target.” I just thought, yeah, I liked that process a lot because I felt all of us grew through it. And got to know each other in the process.

Melissa: You touched on it, you were like, there's multi-language. Because I was thinking, how do you organize when there’s so many different languages being spoken?

Rebecca: [Laughter] Oh my god, it is so hard. I mean, again, you have to be intentional in everything you do because you have to make sure that you build a multilingual team. You can't just be, “Oh it's fine that we all just speak English.”

That's not fine. I know when I was building the team together for SPEAC, for the school, I was very intentional about who I invited to be a part of it. Because in New York City, if you're doing any organizing project, you can find thirty excited white people to be part of it in five seconds. It's the easiest thing on earth. But is that the thirty people that should be part of that project? Probably not. Maybe three of them could be helpful, but the rest of them have nothing to do with your community, aren't going to stick around for more than half a year and are just going to suck resources from you actually, rather than contribute. You have to be intentional about— which is why I like doing word of mouth, meeting of people more than just posting something on the internet and hoping I get a group. I think when you do it word of mouth and you're getting recommendations from people like, “Talk to this person,” “Talk to that person,” you build a more solid group than, let's say, using the internet.

Or, at that time when we were working with SPAN, we did a lot of flyering outside the train station. We would literally get up at like 7:00 AM and just stand outside the train station handing out flyers for whatever our event was to every single person that passed. You'd give out like 150 flyers and maybe one person would come to your meeting, but that person was from Sunset, and they cared. You can build a multilingual team that way, because if you're in Sunset, if you're doing something, you're going to find people who are bilingual. That's just what you're going to do. And then if you have some people who are bilingual, then you can find people who are monolingual and you can build up. I think you have to do it that way. There's no other way. But I think it does— it's a slower process than if you're just talking to the first five people that— especially for me as someone who only speaks English, if I only talk to people who spoke English, I couldn't really do anything here. It would be really empty what I was trying to do. You know what I mean? So, I think that's important, but it's hard, it's really hard, multilingual work.

Because it's slow and there's a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of people feeling left out at different moments and it's a really complicated process, I think.

Melissa: You keep saying intentional and I like that you're saying that it has to be intentional. How do you cultivate the space? Because you mentioned that we weren't moving forward until everyone— How do you cultivate a space where these people who speak a different language feel comfortable enough to express how they feel and their concerns and things like that to be able to move forward together?

Rebecca: You have to do a lot of getting to know each other slowly. For me, whenever I've been in a group like that, where we are trying to move that way, it might sound really simple and basic, but I would start every meeting with an icebreaker. Literally every meeting it would be like, let's go around, let's say our name and let's say one thing our kids love to eat, if it's a parent group. Or, let's go around then say, what's our favorite placeto go.

Or, you just pick something and you build off of that. It feels really basic and kind of silly to say that, but I think those little moments are important because that's what helps people get to know each other. And then also like having a good facilitator. In spaces where there's a good facilitator, then the facilitator can notice when someone's being left behind. I've been in a lot of meetings where there isn't a good facilitator and those have been the worst meetings because half the room, especially if it's a multilingual group, half the room wound up feeling left out and like, “Why am I even here? I don't know what these people are saying, they don't know what I'm thinking.” And a lot of times groups fall apart when there isn't good translation and then good facilitation. I think those are the biggest keys to it.

Melissa: Is there anything you’re working on right now?

Rebecca: No— I mean, I'm doing this community school project, but it's a job.

So, it's a funny thing because I'm getting paid for it, it's a job, but it also is very important to me. It's something I really love. So it feels in an in between like space for me because I would be doing it even if it wasn't my job. Because before I was doing it, I was part of the PTA at the school and I was similarly doing these things and then I just got offered this as a paid position to build up more of what I was already doing. That's been a thing. It's more complicated when you're getting paid for something though because you're more restricted. Because you are a little bit more like, “Oh wait, I have to answer to this organization. What?” I'm not always good at that. I think that I'm not a great employee, I'm a much better organizer than I am employee, especially because I have a really privileged life. I have a house I don't have to worry about whether or not I'm going to be at — I mean I have to pay all the bills, but I have a partner who has a good job too.

So honestly, I am in a rare situation for —I don't know anyone else in my situation where I'm not stressed about if I lost this job. Everyone else I know is like, “Oh my God, if I lose my job, how am I paying my bills? How am I doing?” In this moment in time I'm not really worried about that. It gives me the freedom to be like, these are the things I want to do here and these are the things I don't want to do, so I'm just not going to do them. Which makes me a terrible employee. But I think a good community member [laughter]. But I realize that's very privileged. Because most of the time, I've had other moments in time where I needed my job and was like, oh damn, I really want to do this thing but they're threatening my job so I can't do this thing. And I know that's a different feeling, in a different moment. Oh yes, you asked where I was at, that's why. I was saying, that's what I'm doing. Because before that I was already working with the PTA , the big thing really, honestly my big goal at that school has been to help bridge the divide between parents and children because the school is very segregated— which is reflective of Sunset.

And at one school in particular, it's a dual language school. It's super segregated because all the children who come from families that speak Spanish are in one class or one set of classes. And all the children whose families speak any Chinese language are in other classes. And my family's white, so they put us with the Spanish [laughs]. Basically anyone who's not Asian is in Spanish. And then anyone who is Asian is in Chinese and that's the school. There's one ICTU , one blended class in each grade that isn't dual language. Then they'll be kids mixing in those classes. But other than that, it's really segregated and there's a lot of tension between families and between everybody. That is something that me and a few friends have been working on for years, is trying to figure out how to bridge that. I'm in a weird position since I'm white, because everyone will talk to me.

I wound up in this gray zone, where the Latino families are like, “Oh cool, we'll talk to you. Sure.” And then they'll be talking about the Chinese families, like, “Yeah, you see this?” And I'm like, oh no. Then my friends who are Chinese will be like, “Oh you can talk to us.” And they'll be, “Did you see what they're doing?” And I'm like, oh no. It's a very privileged position because I'm accepted by everyone. But it's a very strange position to be in too because I wound up being the middle, the crosser between cultures a lot of times. There's a few other moms that I know that have similar stories to mine. I have one mom that I'm getting to know now in the school who's Chinese but doesn't speak, she's not bilingual, she only speaks English. She and I were having a moment the other day where she was like, “Yeah, I feel like an outlier.” And I was like, yeah, me too. That's kind of my goal right now, is to just continue being part of helping to bridge some of what's happening there.

Melissa: I was going to ask you too, what is your main issue right now?

Rebecca: I think that's the biggest thing for me is just that tension because it makes me— I'm not super affected by it personally obviously, since I said because people will accept me regardless, but it makes me upset. It just makes me feel sad. It makes me feel—I don't want to be ever in a space where someone is talking to me in a way that I wouldn't feel like other friends of mine could be in the room with us. It's uncomfortable and it doesn't further any of our goals. It doesn't help us build a stronger community. It doesn't help us with housing, it doesn't help us with improving the school. It just doesn't help with anything and its really just people fighting against each other for no reason. I think that's he most present thing on my mind. Especially as I get older because I am thinking — I’m already fast-forwarding to thirty years from now when all I want to do is sit on my stoop and talk to people. I can't wait to be an old lady and just sit on my stoop and everyone passes by and says “Hi” to me

and the kids, I don't know, give me candy or something. And then I go inside, and I cook a big meal and I feed people. That's all I want to do actually in thirty years. My eye is on the prize. I'm not going to get there if everybody hates each other around me. I am personally invested for that reason. That's my selfish reason is, I think there's really not a reason. There's just a lot of misunderstanding and it doesn't need— having lived in the neighborhood so long and watching the same conflict play out between different groups over and over. I'm like, no, it doesn't have to be this way. It's not necessary and there's bigger things to fight against because if we could get past some of those tensions, we could then think about what's happening with housing or with rents in the neighborhood or with anything, really. Creating more safe spaces for kids. There's a lot of things we could be doing if people weren't fighting against each other.

Melissa: What would you say has been your biggest fight in your activism career. I would say it's a career.

Rebecca: I don't even know, they all feel so big. If I'm thinking, maybe the most heated—if I'm thinking, the most heated was the rezoning. Because it really, it felt life or death when we were doing it because you could see that was the moment in time where a decision was being made about, is something going to happen that could help make this a neighborhood people can continue to rent apartments in and live in? Or is something going to happen that's going to make more people be displaced and lose their community? You could feel that fight in meetings. You could feel the urgency to it because Sunset Park is such a home for so many people. There's some neighborhoods that maybe don't feel that way, but here, anyone who’s here for more than a few years thinks of it as home. Especially people who are raising children here or who grew up here, you put your roots down.

And then to realize that rents are about to go out of control and you might lose your community. That's so scary. Especially, if you're someone who has already moved from another country to here and now you might lose the new home you have. That struggle felt so heated and so important. And also, it was so divided, because there was folks that I thought should have been on our side who would start talking with the City’s planning people, or some of the nonprofits were terrible at that time. They were all on the side of the City’s rezoning. And so, people would be, no, but they promised us if we just vote this way then it's all going to be okay and we're going to  get this out of those condo buildings. And it was like, no, they're lying to you. That's literally not what's going to happen. You know, so there was a lot of fighting. It was like really angry. I remember being in a few community board meetings where like literally people are screaming. I think I was screaming, it was like a video clip of me like screaming at somebody and I'm not a yeller like at all.

But I was just so heated because it felt like this is the moment our community either gets destroyed or our community gets kind of like saved, you know? And so, yeah that was probably— that was like one of the biggest and one of the saddest, you know, like endings I think for me. But I think older folks maybe could have given us the perspective of like, it never ends in one fight, you know what I mean?

Melissa: So, would you say that's your most memorable moment? —

Rebecca: —Yeah, probably. Yeah. That was probably the most memorable long-term campaign.

Melissa: So yeah, I guess, —yeah— I mean, I feel like you already kind of touched on this a little, but yeah, what, what kind of impact do you think that left on the community, that fight? Do you guys think you got past it or is it still something that's brewing there or?

Rebecca: I don't know. It's hard to say. Like…

Melissa: It sounds like you guys got past it.

Rebecca: Yeah

Melissa: Because you've been working on different campaigns.

Rebecca: Yeah. I guess people just move passed it. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

I mean, I guess with everything— I mean like, it's a little sad sometimes because you realize how small some of these things are because if you weren't directly part of something then a lot of times people don't even remember that it happened, you know? And I think about that a lot with, let's say like Industry City, which is here in Sunset Park, which I boycott Industry City. Like I won't go there because the beginnings of Industry City were really messed up. It was around the same time as the rezoning and there's a lot of just like really dirty things that happened to set things up for that space to be built as Industry City. And a lot of things in the beginning of—its first few years too, that just really was like alienating to the community. And it's like their vision was to make money. Like they— their vision wasn't let's create a community, a community space in Sunset Park. Their vision was how can we get rich, you know? And it was like, they used Sunset for some elements to get rich and then they discarded Sunset for other things. You know, I remember someone coming to me once and being like, oh, I saw an ad for Industry City at the Broadway Lafayette train station, this was like five years ago.

And I was like, Broadway Lafayette, why is there an ad for something in Sunset at Broadway Lafayette when at that time no one in Sunset even knew what Industry City was.  And it's like, what the hell? You can't say you're for this community if you're advertising in Manhattan in an area like that, but you don't even have advertisements in your own community.  Like what the hell? You know, so I think, you know— but then it's like interesting because like I was like talking to someone at the school the other day and she was like—she's like a mom here and she's really‚— she's been here for like maybe 10 years. She's from Mexico originally, I think. And she was just saying to me, she was like, oh have you been to Industry City? And I was like, what? I was like, why are you talking? And she was like, oh because I have this thing. And I was like, oh my god, I'm so sad. And I told her like, I'm so sad right now because I was like, it's fine, you should go there if there's cool stuff, bring your kids, it's great. Have fun. I was like, I'm sorry that I started off negative, but I was like, I know the history of it and I can't get past it.

I can't be like, it's cool, going to go have fun ice skating at Industry City because I'm going to be there thinking the whole time, like this could have been so different. Like this could have continued to be a place that employed folks from Sunset. Like, because it was like all factories there before, which like factory jobs aren't great, but they were stable jobs that were available to folks in the community, you know? And it's like that always destroyed for the sake of a fancy seating rink and fancy art studios and restaurants that are too expensive for anybody to go to. You know? So, it's like—I think when you're someone who's part of some of these struggles, it's like the history feels so important to you, but then you kind of also have to realize it's not important to everybody else. You know? Not everyone—because they're all so small. Like, none of these campaigns were so big that everyone knew about it. Like only the people that were involved knew about it or the people on those—you know, I'm sure people on 42nd Street and 43rd Street all remember the rezoning because their block was at the forefront of what was happening. But no one on 57th Street is remembering it, you know what I mean? So, it's just a little sad.

Melissa: I — feel like—

Rebecca: —Sorry, that was a sad ending. [laugh].—

Melissa: —No —

Rebecca: —I apologize because —

Melissa: I feel like you're, you're pretty much like answering these questions the, the already— before I even— because I guess you—I mean you already kind of expressed what it— you know, that process and what that did to you on a personal level. I mean, so could—I guess, can you share a community or personal organizing moment or anecdote that made you feel proud of being part of the community organization?

Rebecca: Okay—

Melissa: —since—

Rebecca: —that’s much better—

Melissa: —we ended on a sad note—

Rebecca: —yeah, yeah—

Melissa: Let's bring it on a high note [laugh]. I guess like— okay, let me, made me feel proud ?  There was this one time a couple years ago, this was really great. This was like a one-day thing or it was like 48 hours. It was like a 48 hour turnaround time and it was really great. I have to remember the details of it because it was so fast and quick. But all I know is, basically, this was— it must have been like the year right before the pandemic. So, this was like a few years ago only. And I got an email from somebody that was like, Hey Rebecca, did you hear about this workshop happening tomorrow?

And I looked and there was this bank, this super predatory bank that was going do a workshop for folks that was supposed to be about, I don't remember what they were framing it as, but they were acting like they were going to teach people about, maybe about how to save money or it was, it was something, but it was really predatory and it was like some bank that was contributing to a lot of, like something really— I don't remember the details anymore. This is— I'm telling a terrible story right now, but I know it was bad, just trust me. It was bad and it was predatory, and they were not nice people, and they were trying to do this thing that was going to— I think they wanted to just convince people to like invest in something or, or maybe it was—oh no, it was like to refinance their homes or something. It was, they want to do something negative with people's homes. That's what the core of it was. And we— and so the person sent it to me and she was like, we can't let them do this because this is really bad for the community and whatever. And we were like, when is it happening? She's like, tomorrow [laughs]. I'm like, oh my God. So, we're like, okay, we have to, we have to disrupt the workshop.

Like this, this is what we have to do. And so literally, like overnight we're—I'm like up for like hours. We're like sending this out to like everyone we know being like, can you come tomorrow? Can you make signs? Can you do this? Can you do that? You know and again, the word gets spread and so we wound up like they were suppo— oh we got, we got their space revoked first they were trying to do it in the library and then we contacted the library and let them know that this was like a for-profit thing. And so, then they couldn't do it. I think that's what it was. Yet they lost their space first and they had to move to another location. So, we were like, yes, we're so amazing. We like got them kicked out of the library, you know and then they moved it to this other location. They were still doing the workshop. So, we're like, oh damn, we still need to disrupt it. And so, I remember we got— first we went to the library to direct people over to it because we were worried that people would miss it. So, there was a crew of people who went to the library to be like, are you here for that thing? No, you got to go over there. You know, it was like a few blocks away. And then we went and literally the room, it was probably like 40 people in the room and like 30 of them were with us

and were there to protest against them. And so as soon as they started trying to do their presentation, people started disrupting it and being like, you actually do this, you actually do that. You know, like this blah, blah. And they got really mad, and they were like, what? [laugh] They were definitely like, we're just here trying to teach people things that can help them. And we were like, no, that's literally not what you're doing right now. And then there was a few people there that had come for the workshop and so we were able to basically talk to all those folks and be like, no, don't trust this bank. They're not here for your benefit at all. You know and then they were like— those people were definitely deer in the headlights, like why are we even here? What the hell did we just walk into? And then the workshop had to end. Like they didn't get to really complete their thing or whatever. And then we left. And that was really great [laugh]because it felt like we paused it, you know, like for a moment in time. It was like, no, you can't get your bad messages out there.

Melissa: I guess what, what made you—I don’t know— if you can get a little deeper, but what made you feel proud in that moment of like we—you know, I don't know—

Rebecca: —I guess because we like worked together. It was like even some of us—really like some of the people— it was like a bunch of people worked together who didn't all love each other. But everyone was able to kind of like put that aside for the moment to come do this. And it also felt like we really did halt the machine for a minute. Like it felt, you know, like it feels like there's this machine, right? That's going and going and going all the time and you're just like, okay, who's going to get crushed by it next? You know and it's so depressing but then it's like, it's so rare that you have a moment where you really feel like you paused it. I imagine this is what people must feel like when they, you know, you sometimes hear about when there's like boycotts, right? How someone will like stop a ship from getting their cargo go off or something. It's like, it felt like that, where it felt very physical. It was like we literally stopped you from being able to convince these five or 10 people who came that to give you, their money. You know or to give you their house. You know, we stopped thatand even though that's small, it's also big  because now what if those people go to their friends and like, hey, I went to this workshop

and I thought this was going to be a good idea, but actually it was a bad idea. It's like, it's small but you just have to like have some belief that if you do like moments like that where you can pause the machine for a second, but it helps somebody, right? Like even if it's not going to save the whole—like I don't think there's such a thing as like saving the community or saving the world. Like I think that's a silly concept but like I think those small moments are what's like important, right? So—

Melissa: the little wins that we can get. [laugh]

Rebecca: —Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, it felt really good. And sometimes also, I mean this might seems to like sil— I'm not a super—like I said, I'm not someone who yells much or is very loud. But I think all of us who do community work, we do hold a lot of anger though. You know, we hold a lot of like strong emotions and it is also like a relief sometimes to be able to get them out. Like it's a relief to be able to stand up in a room and be like no, you are doing this to my community. Like you're hurting people in my community and to be able to just voice that I think is really powerful and can like, you can kind of like ride that wave then for like a few weeks at least because you're like, it's like a release like, oh I finally said that thing that's been like brewing in my brain, you know? So—

Melissa: Wow. You're inspiring —

Melissa: —No [laughs]—

Rebecca: –Aww [laughs]—

Melissa: —No, this is great because I always wonder how can, I get more involved in my, in my community and it just seems like you just have to do it—

Rebecca: —Yeah, you just have to do it—

Melissa: —Have to go for it—

Rebecca: Yeah. You just talk to people, talk to neighbors. I think people get intimidated sometimes by the idea of organizing. Like, they think organizing is this thing that has to be structured and you know, you have to like—yeah like there's this bigger structure but it's like, it's really not. Like organizing is four people sitting in a room together talking, you know? And then those four people talking to two more people later, like organizing is you and your neighbor thinking like to yourselves, oh what can we do about that pothole in the middle of our street? Or like thinking to yourselves about, oh man, the kids like their ball keeps going in the street and it's dangerous. What can we do to like help make sure that's not happening anymore? You know, it's like just thinking about all those small things, that's organizing so it's like you don't have to get so caught up on like— I think people do get very caught up on like, but I need to be part of something big.

And it's like actually no. Like you can do it really small and it's good for it's —it's helping you, it's helping somebody else. Like it's really powerful.

Melissa: So how did you get connected with the Voces Ciudadanas?

Rebecca: So Javier who's like one of the founding members— becasue this group originally, they were called Make Space, that was their name, they were called like Make Space in Sunset Park because their prime— if I'm understanding correctly, the history.  I mean that my understanding of it, which maybe I'm missing something. My understanding was that Make Space was the original group and their prime thing was about getting space for schools in Sunset Park. So, Javier who I had known from SPAN—so he's like grew up in Sunset and we had met during the rezoning and then had kind of stayed in touch like as friends after that. He was part of that original group that was working on the like Make Space for Sunset Park campaign, and he knew that I had been part of SPEAC and trying to like do similar stuff. So, there was like events here and there that he would like pull me into and be like, Hey do you want to come like to this thing? Like I remember he invited me once to this meeting.

It was really great too. It was like—which of my kids? It must have been—I don't think I had this kid yet. It must have been my other son. I don't know. I've mixed my kids up a lot. But one of my kids was in a stroller is all I remember, and he had invited me— because they were going to some meeting that like the school construction authority was having and they wanted to like have kind of, they found out that it was like, it was like a private meeting but public was allowed to sit in on it. But it was one of those things that happens at like 10 in the morning on a Tuesday in Manhattan. So, nobody's like sitting in on it. And so, they organized like a whole group of people to go to this tiny little office and stand there to just kind of like bear witness, you know, and intimidate a little bit. Like the people to be like, no, we're watching you. Like we know exactly what you're doing. And I remember my son was in a stroller, whichever kid, I don't remember which one, but one of them was in a stroller and like a whole group of us—I think there was another mom came with her stroller and then everyone else didn't have their kids with them. And we all like took the train together into the city and went and we walk

in this room, see all these people in suits and they were just like, what the hell? Like they definitely thought we were in the wrong place. And I think Javier, whoever it was that was organizing it was like, no, we're in the right place. Like we're, we're here, you know? And I just, you know, we stood there like I stood there with my kid in my stroller and like they were so uncomfortable [laugh], it was like, it just felt like, it felt really good also to disrupt their flow.  Like to be like even if you're going to get to do these things, you know that we know, now what's happening, you know? And so yeah,  I guess he was like my connecting point because like I said, he would just invite me to things here and there. Like at that point I was really focused on parenting more than anything. I don't think I really was doing much or, and my tutoring, I wasn't really doing much outside that stuff so he would just like tell me when there was events that like I could show up for or like petitions that needed to be signed. And then I know then after they had a lot of success and the city agreed to build all these buildings, I think they kind of transformed then into like— they had already I think started transforming a little bit into Voces or maybe Voces also existed, and they just combined. I don't know, I'm not really sure

actually how that happens, but I know that was like my entry point.

Melissa: Okay, in your opinion, what do you think has been vital for Voces Ciudadanas? That— I guess—in their way of achieving their goals, like have you seen anything they've done or?—

Rebecca:—I think they do really cool stuff. Like I know they had done this whole campaign to help, I think it was helping parents and PTAs like learn how to do more organizing type of things and how to be just a little more organized. And I thought that was really cool. Like some folks that I know from the school were going to their workshops for a while. And I know I've seen that they do like art things, yeah—they just seem really like—it just seems like they set up really nice kind spaces that help people kind of be a part of something together and then also learn some skills and I think that's really cool. Like I think they're very skill-based is what I've noticed and I think that's cool. And there's not a lot of groups also that like incorporate like art into the things that they're doing. So, I think it's cool that they like encourage a lot of like art stuff. So yeah, I don't like, I'm not like super, super

familiar with everything they do becasue it's more just like here and there that I've been like, oh that's cool, I'm glad you're doing that. But yeah, they seem to me those are like the important things they've done.

Melissa: Okay. So this is pretty much the last question. So how do you feel about using public resources such as public land and underutilized public infrastructures for the benefit of the community? For instance, the interim public library being vacant soon. —

Rebecca: —Yeah.
 
Melissa: — should the community, claim such space for the benefit of all and for—what for exactly.

Rebecca: Yeah, it's so important and I think that's something that we don't do enough of, you know. I think there isn't enough community spaces that people have access to, like especially in this neighborhood where people are really like— so many people are like crammed into apartments with too many people, like everyone's looking for somewhere to go, you know? And that's why the park as soon as it's warm is so crowded, it's insane. There's no other park, I swear in New York City as crowded as Sunset Park is or like the playgrounds are so overcrowded. Like, it's insane. I remember one time saying something about my son.

I said casually to someone, I was like, oh yeah, when he was standing online for the slide and somebody was like, your son was in line for the slide? And I was like, wait, your kids aren't in line for the slide? And it's like in Sunset, there's no such thing as just going down the slide. You're always looking at like 10 kids waiting their turn to go down the slide. You know, so it's like there just isn't enough open or like public space, open space, community space, like all of it. And in all these organizations and these campaigns I've had like space always was an issue of like, well where are we going to have this meeting? Where are we going to have this workshop? You know, which is why I did a lot of hosting out of my apartment at that time, you know, like, it just was always an issue. So, I think, yeah, any space that like is not currently occupied by something and has the ability to become a public space should be because there's, so there's some, we could have a teen center. Like we could have, you know, a senior—another senior center. Like, we could have a place for organizations, saying something about my son.

Like there's so many things you could do with like a public space like that. That, yeah I don't— it's, it's crazy to me that, that was a police processing center for as long as it was, it makes zero sense that in a neighborhood as overcrowded as ours is that that's where they need to put a service like that that could have been down by the water where like nobody else can get to you anyway easily. Or like in another community that has lots of space or where people are like rich and have their own huge apartments. You know, like it's just there's so many other places that could go. Why in Sunset? So, it's like now that it's been a library for this long, I'm like, why would you ever turn it int—why would you go back to that being a police processing center? Like of course it should be something public. I think, if it was up to me there would be like some process with the blocks right around it to figure out, maybe, like what they think it should turn into. Because I feel like you always should start with like the people closest and kind of like move outward from there. Because there's just so much cool stuff

that It could be— like I remember for a while—I screwed this up, I should have done this, but like for a while I had thought about like on my block there's this building, it was like a little garage and then one day, like this is like maybe five years ago, I seen like a sign they put on it that was like for rent. And I was like, they're renting that little garage out. And I was like, oh my God, it could be for the kids on the block. And I had this whole vision where I was going to go find out how much the rent was going to be and see if like everyone could chip in and somehow we could like turn it into a space because so many kids were outside always at that time. And I was like, maybe I would tutor there, and we could use that money to pay them. Like I had all these crazy visions. But it was like— I think that was—it was right after he was born. I guess he was like two years old, and I was also just very stressed in my own personal life at that moment in time. And so, I didn't, I didn't get it together to contact them and then before I knew it they turned it into a store. But I still feel sad when I see the store because I’m just like, oh that could have been like—

Melissa: —could have been.

Rebecca: —Yeah, what could have been, you know. Like, if I could've convinced that landlord or whatever to make it really cheap and for the kids on the street, it could have been amazing.

So, it's like, especially if it's a building that you don't even have to pay rent on, and they could turn it into something for kids right around there. Or for moms or for any, for anybody like seniors also. I think there's a big need for like senior step spaces to go, you know? And so, there's a lot you could do. So, I'm just like, yeah, no. Like it feels crazy if they give that back to the city. It's like—

Melissa: —NYPD

Rebecca: Yeah–yeah. Makes no sense

Melissa: So, we had the opportunity to actually visit the library. and we realized that, community board seven, right?

Rebecca: Yeah.

Melissa: They have meetings there and this is, this is a little bit something that I've been curious about cause we've been hearing from different organizations. We had a workshop here activity and like how—do you have any experience with the community board

Rebecca: Oh my god [laugh]

Melissa: Are they like non-existent or—

**Rebecca: **I have so many experiences with the community board.

Melissa: Oh Okay.

Rebecca: But yes—

**Melissa: **Was it a good experience or no—

Rebecca: No. Like it's all terrible. Like, I mean community boards, it's not always their fault but sometimes it's their fault. Like, I mean community boards, like we just need a whole revamping of what

community boards look like because the way you get onto community boards is like a whole thing cuz like elected officials have to put you onto the community board essentially and like it winds up being a holding ground for people who wish they were politicians but aren't. And like, I don't know, it's just, it's pretty awful. Yeah, community boards are awful. They have no real power but they really like feeling like they have power so they like they do a lot of, what's that called? Gatekeeping? Is that what that's called? Right? like and so a lot of that happens and yeah, nah, I'm like, there's a few individuals over the time that I've been like, oh you're a nice person at the community board. Like there's this guy Jeremy, who's like the staff person at the community board for like my whole life and he's really nice and has always been like really kind and really helpful. But like the people that like have been community board presidents over the years have been some of my least favorite people. Like, because a lot of times they seem like they have some other ambition, like they're trying to run for something or they're trying to get in with the government and that looks like the stepping stone for them. And then they use that in ways and because they're communicating with the government

they do a lot of like, like siding with like the government, like in the rezoning of the community board basically sided with the city instead of with the community. And it was like, why are you doing this? Like, like it just literally made no sense but it was like they were just kind of going along with what the city was saying to them. So yeah, community board and like the meetings are terrible. Like everything about it. Like I was in this meeting one time at the community board where I was so sad. I remember because it was about a school. Oh yeah, it was a hearing about the school that just opened now actually over, um, across from the cemetery there's a new school, this is one of the spaces that Voces I'm pretty sure helped to get turned into a school and it just opened this last September and um, and people from the block came and were fighting against it being a school because they were worried about their parking.

And I remember sitting there and at first I was so angry at the people from the block, like I was like, you guys are like assholes. Like what is happening? Like you're telling us like this school

can't go here cuz you're worried you're gonna lose your parking spot. Like what the hell? Like I was so angry, but then I like went home and I reflected on it and I was like, you know what, no I'm angry at the entire system because the way this system works is you have a hearing and the way the community board does the hearing is you go in and you either say, yes, I want this or no this is bad and there's no room for a con—a conversation about what could help everyone. Cuz I'm like, that guy probably needs his parking spot also. Like, you know, you live on that block, there's parking— is hard here. Like he doesn't wanna drive four blocks and then not be able to be near his house. He's right actually. But like why aren't we having a conversation where like, like why isn't that being run like an organizing meeting where you can say what are your concerns? 
Let's figure out how we can address them. And then you can have a big chart paper where it's like, where am I gonna park? Or someone's like, you know, how noisy is it gonna be at three o'clock or whatever it is that you're concerned about. And then why aren't we as a community talking about that? And like, not everyone always can get what they want, but like more often than right now somebody could, if all those community

board things were run as a collective space where you're actually hearing people's concerns and it doesn't feel like you're walking in the room just to either say, yes, I like that or no, that's gonna hurt me so I don't want it. You know, like, and so, so the community board's depressing [laugh], it's like so awful. And then the one thing they were doing that was helpful is they were in charge of  approving like block party applications and I run like my blocks, uh, block party I have for the last couple years. And then I got this email the other day that was like, the community board is no longer supervising block parties, contact the NYPD. And I was like, what the hell, [laugh]? I was like, it's the only useful thing you do. Like you now have no power. Like you have nothing to do for me. And so, yeah, I don't know what they're gonna do now if not block parties. , we have a lot of meetings and a lot of votes about nothing like , but I'm sure people in the community board would say differently. .

Melissa: Well, thank you [laugh].

Rebecca: [laugh]

Melissa: That’s something I was really curious about cuz that they didn't come up and the last community we worked in, the community board kind of came up way more –

Rebecca: Oh really?

Melissa: We was in— trying to do some work in Corona.

Rebecca: Oh, interesting.

**Melissa: **Yeah. So I was just interested. I'm like oh,  we're not really hearing anything about the community board in Sunset Park—

**Rebecca: **Yeah. Yeah. I mean if it had been maybe like 10 years, like during the rezoning, people were fighting the community board a lot so people would've talked about it. But yeah, there's nothing, I don't think there's anything hap nothing I'm involved in. Maybe other people are, but nothing that I know of right now is a big like, oh, we need to get the community board to agree with us. I don't think there's like campaigns like that happening right now. Or if there are I'm like, I'm curious to learn about them. So yeah.

**Melissa: **Well, thank you so much Rebecca Corona.

Rebecca: Close. So close. Giordano ,  Giordano  You're close—

Melissa: Giordano. Oh,

Rebecca: It's okay.

Melissa: I'm so sorry. [laugh]

Rebecca: It's a hard name. No, it's, this is like the story of my life. I'm used to it, so.

Melissa: So, thank you so, so much.

Rebecca: No, this was fun. Yeah. Thank you.

Melissa: Yes.

The Interview transcription in Spanish is coming soon!