Betty Yu

Gabriela: Today is July 3rd, 2023. I'm here in Sunset Park with Betty Yu. Thank you, Betty. Thanks for being here with me. So Betty, tell me about yourself. Where were you born and where is your family from?

Betty: Where you're from is always that, that question, right? So I was born here. I was born in Brooklyn, in Sunset Park, in Brooklyn. But my family… It's a little complicated, my family's from Hong Kong and Southern China in Guangzhou. My dad's from Taishan, which is in Guangdong, and a lot of the immigrants that came, the first immigrants that came in the late 18 hundreds were from Taishan because it's a port city, you know, fairly lucrative, right? You can make a good living. But I have found out only very recently that I have four generations of my family in the US.

So I had a great-grandfather that came probably in the 1870s to the West Coast, to Nevada. But because of the Chinese Exclusion Act and because of Chinatowns being burned down left and right, [and] a lot of xenophobia and targeted anti-Asian violence, basically, a lot of folks couldn't stay here.

Then I had a grandfather who was a labor organizer. I found out later, but that's a whole nother story, and, and it was also the same thing, kind of a lot of back and forth. So my parents are from China and Hong Kong. I am, I guess, first generation and  I grew up between Seventh and Eighth Avenue on 60th street in Brooklyn's Sunset Park. So oftentimes you see on maps that's like the, sometimes the border [between] Borough Park and Dyker Heights in Sunset Park. So I grew up in this area where it was always like, we were kind of, it was the trifecta of where all the different neighborhoods meet.

But yeah, I can talk more about growing up. You know, my parents have had their house now for about 45 years, or 46 years now. They moved back in the late seventies, early eighties. You know, when my parents pulled money together with my grandparents and others to buy a home, they all lived in the house. It was at a time when working class immigrant folks at the time could actually buy a home. And there's no mortgage kind of, you know. So it's a very, very different time.

So my parents are actually still there. It's a very fragile situation because taxes and everything is going up, so they don't know how much longer they'll be there. But my roots are still there. My parents are still there. But I actually live in Windsor Terrace now. , yeah, a lot of my family and other, my my friends and family have all moved out because of the rents that have gone up, you know, in the neighborhood in the Latinx side and, and the Chinatown part. So, yeah.

Gabriela: So tell me about your childhood. What do you remember? Like, growing up?

Betty: Yeah. In Sunset Park. So, yeah. So I grew up in the, I guess the early eighties, late seventies, early eighties, as a little child, I,one thing I do, I felt really blessed, and it's still very mixed, but you know, I grew up with, you know, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Dominican, and a lot of Afro-Caribbean folks, you know, as I described them now looking back. But like, you know, folks from all colors of the rainbow from the Caribbean, Caribbean, you know, and also white folks.

And so we would joke around because when Chinese folks were moving in, in the late seventies and early eighties, it was primarily a Scandinavian, Norwegian neighborhood. [Mostly] Northern Europe and Northern Europeans. And I remember going to stores, you see like: “Kiss me.

I'm Scandinavian, Kiss me, I'm Irish, kiss me, I'm Norwegian, Danish”, or whatever. Like, literally stores with just the Northern European, like, kiss me this and that, like cups and aprons and stuff. Yeah. And I remember as a neighborhood was changing as a young kid, I remember slowly those stores were leaving. And then there would be these like two older people who, I love them actually, sitting in lounge chairs, like literally the last of them, like the last of the Europeans of their stores. And then eventually, I think the early nineties they probably closed or even before that. And then it slowly became all Chinese. There's still the pizza shop I grew up going to, it's still there on 50th and Eighth Avenue.

So I went to high school, I'm sorry. I went to grade school and middle school in the neighborhood. My junior high school was actually one of the worst schools in Brooklyn. But, you know, hey, I'm still here. I'm, I'm doing okay. But I always say that, it was rough growing up at the time, but I was very blessed to have a lot, just grew up with all, a lot of different kinds of folks.

And what I do remember is that, , you know, we were one of the few Chinese folks that would often go to Fifth Avenue. Because back in the eighties, you know, people were like, “oh, Fifth Avenue, Fourth Avenue are really dangerous, [there are] gang bangers”. I mean, it's true. I mean, you know, for, for us, we were fearless. Maybe we would go there, because you gotta remember at that time the Chinatown wasn't developed yet on Eighth Avenue.

It was still very white owned in a few markets and Fifth Avenue, Fourth Avenue is where the cheaper stores are, where you would get the clothing, toys, whatever it is. It's still very much like that. A lot of places, although a lot of big box stores have taken over, but back then it was all mom and pop places. So we would go there and, and I remember a lot of the Asian American, Chinese Americans [didn't] go there. You know, it's like maybe once in a while you see a car like that's burnt out or something, you know, it's extreme. Right. For the most part, I never had any issues. I never… nothing.

Gabriela: Yeah. Well, The 80s was a tough time for New York.

Betty: Yeah. New York, it was a, it was a certain time. And we know now, like looking, you know, certain policies, divestment, you know? Urban policies, you know, renewal that hit parts of Sunset Park really hard, you know, now as an adult. But even back then, I really thrive off of being around different people even back then. And I believe that's really where I get my, my passion for, for being around different kinds of folks, you know?

And then in the nineties, mid- to late nineties, is when more Central Americans started coming. From Mexico mainly, or from other parts? You know, like Ecuador, Colombia, mainly though, mainly from Mexico. And I remember hearing about the friction between, you know, sort of Puerto Rican Dominican folks and, you know, the Central Americans. But things are, you know, there's still that tension, you see.

But that was much later, not when I was growing up. When I was growing up, it was very Caribbean, Spanish speaking, and Chinese and white. But yeah, it was really working class folks. I remember being able to just literally, our block was like the, like the rainbow. All kinds of people that lived on our block. Italian, Norwegian, Chinese, black, like probably Dominican, you know, my best… Some of my best friends were Dominican, Puerto Rican, that lived on the Fifth Avenue side, and I would go there and hang out with them and stuff. So it really felt like a childhood. I don't know what it's like to be like an 8 to 13-year-old, but I really never felt unsafe in a neighborhood.

Gabriela: That's beautiful, like all that diversity, yeah. And what do you remember, I mean, probably you were young, but [what] about the housing conditions, you know?

How was it? You know, I mean, you mentioned that your family got a property back then, but do you remember anything about, was it was like, were there [homes] in good shape or?

Betty: Yeah. You know, growing up we were always, I just, in terms of class-wise, I think all of us were, a lot of me and my friends were generally in the same class, but I always felt we were probably lower class. So, in other words, I always say that there's working class and then there's working poor . And I think we were like low. My parents were low wage working poor, so they were garment workers, you know, they worked in some unionized shops, but as is very publicly known, the garment union really declined in the nineties and really weren't protecting workers' rights a whole lot. And so, in many ways, they were making less than minimum wage. It's like a whole, like, racket system that happens. Anyway, that's a whole other story around some corruption and stuff. So they worked really long hours to make ends meet. And so my grandmother helped raise me like a lot of Chinese American families.

I think three generations that live together, is very common. Yeah. But I had friends who were like, their friends were middle class. And I remember being really ashamed of where I came from or my parents for their job, and so it took me a while to invite them over. But there were subtle things like my, you know, growing up very humble. We live in a small apartment. And then to, for everyone to make income.

We'd, I think, my grandparents lived in another apartment, and then the other two were rented out, and they shared the income. Not a lot at all. Very humble, like furniture that's there. They haven't literally update, upgraded their furniture in like 45 years. So, you know, very humble, I would say. But always, you know, my mom's like a clean freak, so everything's always clean, even though it's old. And going to other folks' homes, like, especially my friends who lived on the Fourth and Fifth Avenue side, very small homes,

you know, very, you know, humble. But, when you're growing up, you don't really think about it so much. But I remember thinking that their apartments were small. Because I thought ours were small growing up. Because there were seven of us, it was a lot, in a three bedroom apartment. So we would all like, share rooms together, share beds. Sometimes my grandmother would share a room with my sisters. So it was like a lot of that.

But then I remember thinking [while] going to other homes, like, “oh, wow”. I mean, other apartments that were definitely rentals and they were much smaller. And so that made me think about things differently. In terms of like, I guess now looking back in terms of disparity and like wealth accumulation and like my parents being able to do that because they had family here and they were able to pull money together and, you know, that kind of thing. And there are some folks who are here that just aren't able to do that because of circumstances, because of their socioeconomic circumstances.

Like, not that my parents had any money, but they just decided: “Hey, we're all gonna pull money together and do it”. I will say though, that walk in the eighties, I would say that things were rough, and that's indicative of divestment, our area definitely.

But particularly the Latino part was very neglected. You can tell it was very dirty. The streets were very, very, you know, I mean, I guess I, I guess I would say now looking back, some dilapidated looking buildings, like not very buildings, or not, not really. I'm trying to remember if I, you know, at that time, there were like a lot of Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to, I'm trying to, to be honest. Now, looking back at pictures, I'm like, maybe I remember that. But I see, you know, a lot of, done a lot of research about Sunset Park too. So I'm like: “is it, I'm projecting that as a child?” I don't think I noticed that as much.

I did notice how dirty the streets were. I noticed how much garbage was out, and it was not very well maintained. I mean, people would complain often about both sides of Sunset Park that, you know, sanitation, just like in Manhattan’s Chinatown, like the poor, poor areas, you don't get as much service. So people have been complaining about that forever.

Gabriela: So, did you live in Sunset Park for a period of time, or?

Betty: Yeah, I lived there till I was like 22. So the nineties.

Gabriela: Okay.

Betty: Yeah.

Gabriela: And why did you leave?

Betty: I left… That's a good question. I think I left after college. I think even though I was already involved with organizing in Chinatown since I was a teenager, I was very politically aware, socially aware, doing work around immigrant rights and labor, particularly in Manhattan's Chinatown. Actually, I knew Laura Liu back in the nineties.

I guess my parents were a little bit of control freaks. So I needed to get out. I needed a separation, to be honest. My, my grandmother, you know, lived to be 103. She passed away like, so a couple years, like six years ago. But they didn't have a great relationship. My grandmother and my parents, the two of them were fighting all the time with my grandmother. It was just a lot of space. And I went to NYU, but I commuted 'cause I couldn't afford to live in the dorms. And I didn't have that experience. Like, all my friends, almost all my friends went, went away from college. Right. I stayed, stayed in New York. So I just, it was my time. So honestly, I just needed to, to leave.

Gabriela: And what did you study at, at NYU?

Betty: Film. Film and television. Photography first. And then film and television. Yeah.

Gabriela: And, I mean, I know that you have been involved, you know, with housing and some activism in Sunset Park…

So did you return at a certain point? Or how was your connection again with the, with the neighborhood?

Betty: Yeah. I guess I've never really, I've never really felt a separation because my parents are there. My grandmother eventually moved to a nursing home that was in Sunset Park. So I was always there. I just needed some physical distance from my parents because I needed it for my mental health, you know, at that time asserting independence. And now it's like so much later now and in life. And, and so now it's just, I'm, I'm a much better person for that. But I think, I'm trying to remember, probably like 12 years ago… long story short, I did right after college, even though I had a film degree, I did direct organizing with Chinese staff and Workers Association around labor conditions, garment restaurant conditions at that time. I realized that I was not a good organizer, community organizer.

So I was doing video and photography at the time with the group, but I realized that that was my contribution using arts culture media to elevate these issues, and not the… I mean, I have so much respect for community organizers, don't get me wrong. But my contribution is doing more socially engaged art. So I returned to that and worked different nonprofit jobs, but, you know, focusing on the arts, and I applied for the Laundromat project. I don't know if you know the Laundromat project It's a social justice arts group. And at that time, 12 years ago, they were inviting people to apply for residencies where they did art-based projects that were based in their own neighborhood. It didn't mean like you had to live there, but your own neighborhood, whatever, however you defined it. So I was surprised. I received this, this, this fellowship, this is when I went, when I decided to go back to really immersing myself as an artist, as a socially engaged political artist.

So I received it. And that was about 12 years ago. And I started a project in a local laundromat that my parents go to. So it was a small one, unfortunately, during the pandemic, they had to close, but on Seventh Avenue between 56th and 57th Street. And it was a Laundromat that's been there for like 25 years. And my parents were like: “Oh, you should do the project here because they know a lot of the people there”.

So I started for about three and a half, four months every week there talking to people. And so, what I was interested in is like, what were their main issues that they were, they cared about? And of course, I knew my angle always was around labor and housing. But I just, whatever they wanted to talk about. So I had a podcast station set up like this , and they could interview each other. So I had some questions that they could interview each other, or I, or they could just say whatever they wanted. But I did audio recording, and then I also did some photography classes and video as well.

Like get from the flip, the flip, cameras, like really simple flip. Oh yeah. So I taught them how to use it. And honestly, all the kids and teenagers loved it. But all the older adults were like: “I don't wanna, you know, the very closed off community.” And I tried to explain like, they know my mom. Right. So I thought I'd get some street credibility from there. And they're like: “We don't know who you are. What are you trying to do with it?” So it took me showing up over and over and over and over again to just have them see me as someone who's from the community. Honestly, a lot of them were like: “Why do you wanna, why do you care about my story? It's not very interesting”. And over time they opened up, but they were like: “Okay, you can interview me. I'm gonna use my first name and no, no camera”. Right. Yeah. So it was just audio. So, audio became very… I started really getting into audio recording back then because they were much more comfortable with that. And it makes sense. There's certain anonymity to that. So, you know, I collected stories.

I did have a project that I can share with you, you know, some other time. It's called the Garment Worker. And it's a garment machine that depending on how you operate, different videos come up in the middle. And those are interviews with my mom and other garment workers of videos I collected with the organization I worked with in the nineties and early two thousands. So people would interact with that while they're doing their laundry. And then I would try to interview them. And the issues that kept coming up over and over and over and over again, were housing. [Housing] getting much more expensive. You're squished into much smaller spaces.

So it was already starting in the Chinatown part, but now it's like everywhere. They were starting to, you know, divide up, right? Like these, these homes, two, three family homes, one apartment that was for one family, they chop it up, and then they rent it out to three families. So it started that. And then childcare. So I mean, I wasn't even thinking about babies, kids back then, but they were like, you know, there's no affordable childcare. And so, you know, you hear all these stories about bad mothers leaving their kids at home alone, but like, what are we supposed to do? We can't afford childcare. And we have to work.

And so it's like a lot of new immigrants who don't have their parents around. So those were the two things, labor too. But over and over it was housing and childcare, which I thought was really interesting. And then I made a small little kind of just an audio like project out of it, you know, the different interviews. And then I've just been kind of interested ever since, I guess because it's kind of fluid for me. I have been involved with CAAAV [Committee Against Anti-Asian Violence] organizing Asian communities, you know, the group in Chinatown for some time.

Gabriela: What is the name of that project? The name of the laundromat project.

Betty: What did I call it? What did I call it? I don't even remember.

Gabriela: And what was the year again?

Betty: 2011 or 2012? No, wait, no, that was not, that's not right. When was Hurricane Sandy? It was 11?

Gabriela: I think it was 2011. More or less at that time. Yeah.

Betty: Yeah. 2011. That was the year that because I…

Gabriela: Occupy Sandy also…

Betty: And that was, and the reason why I remember that was my last day of workshops. And October was the day before they told everyone to shut down. I was like, what is this storm thing? Oh, it's no big deal. That's why I remember that. And then it was crazy. So it was 2011, and I'll, I'll get you the name of it. I don't remember what I called it.

Gabriela: It's okay.

Betty: Oh no, I think it was, it was called The Garment Worker, because that was my installation that I was showing and everything revolved around the installation. And then on my last day, I had pictures. I took pictures of them. Some of them had pictures, some had some other pictures up and stuff. So yeah, I don't even know where that stuff is right now. But anyway. Yeah. It's called The Garment Worker. So, anyway, so in Chinatown, I've been involved with Chinatown, our brigade through CAAAV, the Chinatown Tenants Union, doing a lot of organizing.

And I was talking to so many people who were moving to Sunset Park because the rents were getting so high in Chinatown. You know, this is 10 years ago. And now people are moving from Sunset Park’s Chinatown now further in right, there's like three or four other satellite Chinatowns in Brooklyn and in Queens.

So people are even moving out of Sunset Park, because even though you live there… Yes. It's convenient. It's literally, you're paying the same amount to share, to share a kitchen with two other families. And you have one room. In fact, my mom's house, if you look to the right and left, well, let's, Seventh of the right, that's what they did. Like, you can look in and you can literally see where the kitchen used to be is a bedroom. And they've… it’s just, it's terrible. It's like very predatory. You know? It's disgusting.

But, so yeah. And then, from that time, I would say 2014, 2015, I continued to be involved with the Sunset Park organizing.

And then what got me a lot more involved, I think is obviously what was happening in Industry City. And I knew a lot of folks on the Latinx side who were being affected. And then what was happening, I [like] being involved in that, I also really wanted to make the connection to the Chinatown part, because there's so much attention, which makes sense, that's been given to Industry City, and the role that it's played over the years. But also in Chinatown, the Eighth Avenue side, there's a lot of development. And there's this one huge development. I just read a report that now it's going, it got the green light by the Eric Adams administration. And a lot of the development is very insidious. 'cause it's by people that look like me. But they have money, right? They're from China. A lot of it's foreign and domestic capital. But a lot of it's foreign from China.

And some of it is Flushing based. But if you look at the Flushing, LLCs, you'll find the connection back to China. It's all very, very insidious. All the dark money or whatever you wanna call it. So during the pandemic, a lot of the mom and pop places that existed…. even right before, but definitely during the pandemic [the mom and pop places] that existed in Sunset Park… a lot of them couldn't bail themselves out. They couldn't get the loans right. They couldn't get the pandemic money because they're small and they weren't backed by big banks. And now all the businesses that are replacing them are big chains. The Taiwanese bubble tea, the bakeries, the French bakeries, you know, they're not really French bakeries, They're Korean owned. And all these places are all part of big, big chains, franchises.

And they're not mom and pop owned anymore. And that's definitely like, happening on a larger scale in, in that Chinatown. And then what's been happening with just trying to, you know, the area by eighth Avenue has been rezoned, but no one really paid attention.

In a long time ago. And so a lot of upzoning is happening, and a lot of proposals now, again, a couple years after the pandemic are coming up again, like this property by 62nd and Eighth Avenue, , which is where the train is. And the MTA has owned it for a while. It's just abandoned. Not abandoned, it's just there. And now they're going to build this huge, huge condo. At first the community was like, you gotta give us something back. So at first it was going to be schools, a senior center, Medical center. But, you know, those things, you know how it is. You do it for a couple years and you turn that to luxury, right? But we're not even getting that. So it's all condos and that's just got the green light.

Gabriela: Does the Asian community know that this is happening?

Betty: Very little, very little, in fact…

Gabriela: Because I know that with other rezoning applications community members have united…

Betty: Yeah. And I really have an admiration of UPROSE, right? Like, the organizing they've been able to do, along with a lot of other groups, not just them, but they took the leadership, you know. They've taken the lead and proposed green plans, green deals for like the Bush Terminal and even Industry City, and steadfast on how, you know, Industry City is a gentrifying force. Even when Industry City did all those PR [Public Relations] they hired a big PR company to do all this stuff. We're hiring Latinos and blah, blah, blah. We're diverse bullshit, right? It's like, it's all, it was all B.S. So, and I have so much admiration for their [UPROSE] climate resiliency work, and they've been able really to bring the community together. There's other, other groups like Protect Sunset Park, other groups that are like, I know you interviewed some folks who, some of them became elected officials like Marcela Mitaynes, I don't know if you got to interview her, but she was a grassroots organizer, you know?

So a lot of folks who are doing really good work, different, you know, UPROSE is not the only one. But I have to say that there's a lot of different groups doing organizing. Chinatown in Sunset Park is very different. And I hate when people say it's cultural, because then it makes it seem like, oh, culturally we're like passive and we don't like to [confront], [but] I mean, there is so much organizing going on right. In the Chinatown communities. But there's also a lot of brainwashing. And, and I would say, not brainwash, I shouldn't say that… Misguidance by the Chinatown Elite.

And so you have a lot of people in Chinatown, in Sunset Park who either don't know what's going on, or they think that the construction's gonna bring them jobs. They think that because you know, a lot of the medical facilities that have opened up, and if you walk along Eighth Avenue you'll see a lot of medical facilities on the first floor. And that's because that's, that's the give back, right? So they, all these condos that are going up on my parents block alone.

You know, every other day they were trying to buy my family's house so they could demolish it and build up. And my parents are like, you know, you know, “go to someone else”. So our block is changing a lot. Like 60th street is very rapidly changing. But anyway, if you see medical facilities on the bottom, it's because it's a medical condo. And that's the best way to get, you know, tax breaks. Either a daycare center or medical center, or a senior center. You get so many tax breaks from that. And so people think: “Oh, jobs, new amenities for our community.”

But then, like, what we see that is happening, it's, it's very, very different. It's a really different kind of gentrification that I try to explain to folks. That is like, people that look like me. It's people who, because of language barriers, wanna stay there. And the landlords who are unscrupulous know that they know people wanna stay there.

And so you can squeeze people they feel like psychologically over time. It's kind of like, you know, Dr. Mindy Fullilove, I'm very inspired by a lot of her, her writing. And it's that, that psychological trauma, right? So if you can slowly do it, it doesn't seem so obvious. It doesn't seem so, insidious. But slowly over 10 years, somehow a family will be paying $800 for a room and a shared kitchen, because they're around the corner from Eighth Avenue and all the amenities right there, and the school is down the block.

And so it's that kind of like over time. So anyway, I try to explain to folks, like, in Flushing, it's very similar. The gentrification looks very different. I know in the Latinx part there's a lot of rent stabilized places, right? There's still homes too, that look really different. You know when Marcela was organizing with Neighbors Helping Neighbors, she talked about these rent stabilized places, it's like, it's there.

People are losing their battles, and it, it looks, it looks different. So I really wanted to build bridges with the folks on the Fifth Avenue side, the Latinx side, because there is not this bridge. And I know the group that… what was the name of the group?

Gabriela: La Union?

Betty: I can't say it. La Union. That was in the church, on the Lutheran church on, was it Fourth Avenue? Juan Carlos, that he was the pastor there for a while. He was the, I don't know, the, I'm not religious, but a pastor or reverend, I don't even know what it is, but .

Gabriela: Yes, yes.

Betty: Yeah. And he was trying to do some… you know, during h Hurricane Sandy they did a lot of organizing. But after Hurricane Sandy, they were trying to bring the Chinese and Latino community together in that space a little bit. But it didn't really happen. It wasn't, it wasn't so strong. UPROSE… They've hired some Chinese organizers in the past Chinese American and have done some.

But there is still this big divide. And I think that it's important to support one another because I think there's still this divide, right? The Chinese are like this, the Latinos are like this. But we're actually facing this… A lot of very, very similar, similar fights to, similar with the same developers, it looks different though. It does look different. And unfortunately, the organizing for whatever reason, is not very strong in the Eighth Avenue part. We… me and some folks, we started a group, but, you know, we're getting a lot of hate from others. 'cause it's like, you know, the people are busy. They're working all the time. And then the young… What's interesting is that a lot of young folks like me, they just wanna move on. They don't wanna look back.

Gabriela: But during this period when the Industry City application started, you know, some neighbors started mobilizing. So was that the time that you start kind of creating those breaches, or was it before then?

Betty: I'm trying to remember, Because Industry City actually started their bid in 2010, 11? I'm trying to remember. It's really got going in 2014, 2015. Like when they really, the PR camp. Like actually the PR campaign was a little later in 2018. I think it was probably around 2015, 2016, when I got, when I started to… 'cause I was involved with Chinatown Art Brigade, and then, trying to bring a lot of the socially engaged practices to Sunset Park.

Gabriela: Tell us a little bit about those projects that you did.

Betty: Yeah. So, I mean, , so I co-founded Chinatown Art Brigade in 2015 with two other Asian American artists, cultural workers, and socially engaged artists who all had deep roots in Chinatown.

And we started, because of our partnership, each of us were individually doing a lot of work with CAAV and organizing Asian communities. They started about 40 years ago doing stuff around anti-police brutality. And then they expanded to housing justice work ever since 9/11, all this displacement that's been happening.

And so they had approached us as artists and said: “Oh, we wanna work with you all because, you know, we're really good at organizing, obviously the direct, direct actions canvassing, you know, the usual. But we really want to figure out how to use art and culture to really activate our folks and animate our stories, illustrate in a different way, you know, our tenants like struggles”. And so back in 2015, we started these workshops with tenants. We were very lucky in that we, we apparently received great fundings seed funding,

From different foundations that fund socially engaged work. And so we were able to work with a cohort of a number of tenants that, from the organization as well as other activists and residents from Chinatown, young and old.

So we had folks that were like fourth generation Chinese American, and then new immigrants that maybe have been in New York for two years. So we worked with a whole group of folks and over a period of two to three months of intensive workshops, we did story circles, people telling their stories.

We did place keeping walks. People would stop, you know, we did a whole mapping project, a whole counter mapping, counter cartography mapping, looking at the maps that we know the-powers-that-be make the power structures, and then deconstructing that. And then what are the maps that we wanna create. And so we started to map out the places of importance, right? Like resilience and resistance. So resilience, right?

We are still there, still fighting the good fight. And then those that are no longer there, they're hotels now, they're galleries, mom and pop places there are going, which there were plenty. So we did this over a period of time, residents and tenants led these walks. We incorporated photography and chalking, people would chalk like in Chinese and in English. Like, where have the stores gone? Why did you open your condo here?

I mean, it was like, you know, whatever folks felt, felt compelled to write. But meanwhile, we had people map, map do like a mapping, like do mapping, , as a part of it. , and so from that, we created images. And some people wanted portraits of themselves. Some didn't. And so we worked with them to create content that was projected at night on, on, on the streets of Chinatown at night. Because a lot of the tenants said, you know, a lot of the folks, a lot of our peers don't know about our organizing because they're working such long hours.

So the only way you can get them to really [know]... a lot of them won't come to meetings. They're just busy. So they said, you know, like, you should project these messages by the train station when they're getting their groceries or coming home. And so we had a number of projections that were really successful. So we had alongside us organizers that were tabling, you know, and then, so the people would look up, look at a message in Chinese, and then, then stop and talk to us. And an organizer, we work with The Illuminator. The Illuminator is, they have this truck with a projector basically. They do a lot of the activist projections around the city. And we started to really realize that it was really capturing people's imaginations. So one thing that folks really loved was this people's pad where people could write messages that then The Illuminator projected. And you could see it blown up really big. So we had targeted projections.

We targeted one building across the street across the street from a building where tenants were organizing. And they were trying to get their friends to come out, their neighbors to come out to see, so that they would feel emboldened to come out. You know? 'cause it was an active case. Some of them came out and looked at the projections. It was a really, really cool moment and a real great public intervention that was like, about public art. And so a lot of our work is all about making it accessible to the public. Then we moved the mapping into creating a map for the organization. So we did these physical map, a huge physical map with stories, using QR codes and using augmented reality so people could use their phones to activate the story.

And that became another digital mapping project. So they all happen very fluidly, and it really is informed by the community members and what they wanna see and by their stories. But mapping became very, very central in that work for us. And then I carried over that work to the Sunset Park Project, to my displaced Sunset Park project,

where mapping was very important to me. So I did a similar thing where I talked to people about their favorite places that were in the neighborhood that are no longer there. And it was always really interesting to talk to the people in their seventies, as opposed to the people like, who are like in their twenties. And like, I talked to this Puerto Rican couple who moved there in the 70s they were part of the Puerto Rican Socialist Party.

So they talked about that time period. It's always been really fascinating for me to talk to folks. But all that to say that my interest in socially engaged work really extended in Chinatown, started in Manhattan Chinatown. And I brought that with me to Brooklyn's Chinatown. And I met with a few groups and I really try to engage with some of what are really social service groups. They're not really organizing groups, but they all are really afraid of rocking the boat.

So it's a lot of nimby not-in-my-backyard, folks in Brooklyn's Chinatown, it's terrible. So there's like a few very powerful Chinese organizations on that block. And so people don't wanna mess with them, don't wanna rock the boat, right. Because they tend to own a lot of the properties that folks are renting from their little store and that kind of thing. So it was really, really hard.

I did manage to get some young people from a youth group at CPC, Chinese Planning Council on Eighth Avenue and they did work with me on the Sunset Park project. 'cause they got it. They were high school students, but they got it once we started talking to them about gentrification and what's happening on the block, on the avenue, they started to get it. They were like: “Oh yeah, like the $8 bubble teas. It's for young folks like them who live with their parents and they can afford it”. Right. But not for their parents. So they started like super smart, right? Like now they're like graduating college.

But they started as seniors and I developed a really tight relationship with them as seniors in High School. And I worked with them and Tarry Hum, who was an advisor on the project, as well as Caitlin Cahill, who you probably know. She teaches at Pratt, but she's in Urban something. I can't remember, but she's in cultural studies, social sciences. She is a professor there.

But anyway, we did a lot of participatory action research as well as mapping. But they mainly did participatory action research. They interviewed folks. And I thought that was really beautiful. They, they, that, that gave me some hope. 'cause I started to get very pessimistic about any kind of organizing happening in the area. But it's, it's, it's really, it's, there's not a whole lot of organizing. So me and a couple of folks like Tarry Hum, I don't know Shaun Lin, who maybe you've heard of his name, he started a group called Sunset Park for a Liberated Future.

So they do a lot of organizing, intersection of abolition and housing, and gentrification, you know, especially with the detention center that's in Sunset Park. So we started a group called Coalition to Protect Eighth Avenue. It was just individuals. And we did some, a little bit of organizing. So like in 2019, 2018, there was a proposal for this huge building that was gonna come this on 62nd Street. And I thought: “Okay, a lot of people are gonna come out”. But first of all, they only posted it a week before this public hearing. The hearing is in Manhattan, no translation chinese in Chinatown. And it was in the middle of the day, like five strikes against anyone that would be able to come in the community. Maybe elders, but they can't communicate.

So, Tarry works with the department of City Council all the time. And like, complaints, you know, like they're sick of her. And she was like: “How are you having this in the middle of the day? Blah, blah, blah”. So they weren't gonna change the time. And we demanded translators we're like: “you gotta have Mandarin and Cantonese, because…” Lord knows that they don't even know what dialects people speak, or they [only] think [it’s] one thing. I was like, no. Like the old people, like my grandmother, don't understand a word of Mandarin. Like you have to have Fujianese. So finally we got them to do Cantonese and Mandarin, and I thought we'd try to get the word out about the hearing and everything, but it was in Manhattan. And a lot of people don't know how to get there.

So this is [the thing] about the community, the only person that showed up was my mother, because I brought her . She was the only person that came. She didn't wanna testify. Because even though she's a garment worker who got involved in organizing through the group in Chinatown, she just didn't feel prepared. She was like, ah, you know, she was just coming to listen. And she thought that we all thought there'd be a lot of Chinese people there.

She was the only resident from Chinatown there.

Gabriela: And that area, or what community board is it?

Betty: It's across… between Seven and Tenth [Avenue], I believe. So it goes into Dyker Heights. So it’s really Tenth [Avenue]. So we were in touch with the folks [in] Fourth Avenue. It's not, it's not their jurisdiction, but it's just this kind of divide and conquer that happens. So, there were these racist Italians basically, who were like, basically gave an interview to a Sunset Park newspaper like: “China's taken over here. We don't want [that].” Because it was a Chinese developer. So the Dyker Heights people don't want it for different reasons. Right. So it's like these strange bedfellows. Because they're like, the Chinese are expanding, we don't like them, they're taking over. So, which you'll hear that over and over again in Dyker Heights in that area.

And so they don't want the development for one reason. Because of that. And then other folks, maybe they just are thinking, at first, like I said, there was gonna be senior housing and there was gonna be schools. And now that's not a part of the plan. So in May, just this past May, they started up again. They got approval to start, and there's a lot of, like I said, nimby kind of mentality. So there was a shelter that was supposed to be built in Sunset Park on the Chinatown part.

Gabriela: Was that also a rezoning process?

Betty: There was a public hearing. Yeah. A lot of people went to it. [There] had to be. And it was that group, what’s her face? Christine Quinn's group. It's the one for children and families. I forget her nonprofit. But you know, it’s as if it actually… I'm already, you know, the gradations, right? People are like, oh yeah, children and families are okay, but a shelter for men not okay. It's like this kind of internalized stuff.

But I never, so many people came out to protest on Eighth Avenue, never seen so many Chinese people protest on Eighth Avenue before it was against this shelter. 'cause property values, you know, anti-blackness, all that stuff, anti-brown, that kind of fuels it. Because the people who led the march were all like, elite Chinatown people. You know, the last time I saw such a big march was when Peter Liang, this Chinese cop, killed this black man, you know, in the housing projects. And everyone was like, we gotta protect the Chinese cop. That was the last time I saw [that many people]. So there are really deep, deep, deep divisions between, you know, the brown community and Asian community. And it's getting worse, obviously, with this Supreme Court decision, with affirmative action. It's only gonna get worse.

Gabriela: You were telling me, Betty, that during the rezoning of process of Industry City you and other people were trying to make these bridges, you know? What, what do you remember about that time? You know, what happened? Did they unite or…?

Betty: No, because it was considered very different. 'cause you know. Like you point out there's different community boards. . . And there might be, there's some overlap, right? By like Sixth Avenue, as I’m sure you know, the redistricting has made it really, really weird. Like one block can be this, and then one block is all of a sudden across the street is a different community board. So that's also another divide and conquer strategy by these developers and city officials. There were some folks who came out from the Chinatown part like some individuals who came out to support folks in the Industry City rezoning. So what we try to do is on the Eighth Avenue side, and when we started protect the Coalition to Protect Eighth Avenue, we try to reach out to the churches.

We try to go a non-political route and say, Hey: “Would the churches host something where we did a forum?” Initially they said yes, and then, and then it didn't happen. . . And so, like I said, the forces are really strong there, but in terms of supporting Industry city or opposing the Industry City rezoning, there were some people that had come out. But there was not a lot of organizing, honestly, in that community. And vice versa, you know, there weren't a lot of folks who came out to support the folks on Eighth Avenue who were Chinese, the few people that were opposing the development from the Latino side.

So I just think that there's this kind of combination of people being really, really busy. There's language barriers. . , you know, all these things. And to be honest, I think for us, we're all volunteers, but there needs to be, at some point… There was some energy probably like four years ago to start something, right. To really, really start organizing, start to do something,

And, and possibly make it into something that was like, not a nonprofit, but something that was sustainable. . . but it died down because the 62nd street of that development stopped in 2019. So, I wanna get back in touch with folks because I just found out that it's gonna happen again. But, you know, it's so hard with a baby and trying to do all these other things, teaching and my own projects and stuff. Yeah. But it's really important because that development is only two blocks away from where my parents live. And they're feeling the effects, taxes and everything. You know, the first hotel opened right before the pandemic, the first hotel in Sunset Park on the Eighth Avenue side, a block away from them. So, it's happening. But it looks diff it looks very different. It looks very different. I will say though that there have been times where we've had, there have been community board meetings in the Sunset Park side, in the library, in the Sunset Park Library.

where there have been a lot of, there's some, been some mobilization of Chinese folks that come out. 'cause you know, there have been a lot, there are some Chinese Americans that have moved into the, a lot actually, into the Fifth Avenue side. You know they’ve just been moving, moving that way.

But I was fortunate enough to [have] my project where I interviewed people from both sides of Sunset Park. I was invited by the community board by Marcela [Mitaynes] actually at the time when she was with Neighbors Helping Neighbors and others to share the stories. To show some clips of, of people talking about the changes. And also to introduce to that community board, the fight that's happening also in Chinatown. Because they're not familiar with one another's fights, really. It's very silent, which is very interesting to me. I get it. Like, when you're invested in your own fight in your own backyard, you're gonna be laser focused. I understand that.

So I had the opportunity to share these stories that I collected. This was right before the industry city had the the various stages of the rezoning fight. So yeah. So there, there was that. And then, , you know, there's like, I, I don't know if, if other folks shared with you, there's always territorial internal stuff between groups in Sunset Park. It's just, it's, it's around race and income. Who's been there longer, who's been doing the work longer. It's, it's, it's a little too much.

Gabriela: But are there many groups? A lot of different groups that are…

Betty: Yeah, you know, at one point around the rezoning, I guess in 2019, 2018, there were like two Protect Sunset Park groups, which is kind of funny to me. UPROSE… you know, different folks who… there would be some overlap. I mean, I think that at the end of the day, people knew we all worked generally on the same side, you know?

And then, the Brooklyn Anti-Gentrification network. That has a lot of some of the Protect Sunset Park Group. The Sunset Park Groups were part of that. And they supported… so at a certain point everyone had to like, throw down and like, get involved, you know? I think that that was really, really important.

The other thing I should say, the reason why I was getting much more involved in documenting people's stories in Sunset Park was… I eventually limited my interaction with them, but the Dedalus Foundation, which is an arts organization that is in Industry City, but this is Industry City in the first iteration in 2010, 2011, when it was like a slow progression, right? (So, oh, my watch is always talking to me.) When they were trying to get tenants to come in, right? . . But they hadn't done the big construction. They hadn't done the big thing yet. So they were offering non-profits, like a huge discounted rate.

So Dedalus Foundation, is the Arts Foundation that I think they got like, for like a five year lease, like 50% off or something like that. And so they were always apologetic. They're like: “I know the way that folks look at us”, and they had invited me to do some workshops with folks, Chinese and Latino, and all kinds of young people there. Like Photography and Film, and making workshops. So I did some of that there. And they were very, very self-conscious of how they appeared. . . But their services were free, right? They were like: “Well we provided a complete Portfolio”. Like China encouraged people to go into the arts. So they pro provided scholarships as well as free Portfolio Day for the kids, like that were all in the schools around there. But, you know, it became problematic for me. In terms of like, I respect what they did, but I was like, you know, I get that you, your lease is going on for a while, a little longer, but

you're becoming part of the problem because of where you are. And they were trying to say: “We were well before the big wave”. I was like: “Yeah, but you know, it's your positionality”. So it became very, very dicey. So I had to kind of slow down my ties with them. Like I respect them as individuals and I believe that they believe what they're doing is, is, is righteous, but from my own principles and my own values, you know? I had to stop working with them.

And then, you know, in 2017, 2018, they started offering all the very reduced spaces to nonprofits and the Vera Institute, you know, the criminal justice group was one of them. . . And they reached out to me. I don't know how they got my information. They were like:

“Hey, we wanna talk with you. 'cause I know we know you do a lot of anti-gentrification work in Chinatown and in Brooklyn”. And they were trying to get me to, it was very strange, I think [they were trying for me] to make a statement about… I don't remember what it was, but it was like a really weird thing of trying like an almost like an endorsement statement, but not. And I started looking into it more. I was just like: “are you..?”, Oh, I know what it was. They were deciding on whether or not to move in there, and they were getting a really good deal, and they were trying to talk to people. And I said, well, I need to know why you're interviewing me. For what? . . , and then they decided they were moving there and they were like, can we still interview you for The Sun? Oh, it was like a Sunset Park Bulletin as a part of their institute.

They were trying to highlight people in the neighborhood of people who did work around the neighborhood. I was like: “No, I don't wanna be a part of that. I can't be a part of that”. I was like: “If I am gonna be a part of that, you want me to write a blog? I will write about how you all are there and how you all are part of the problem”, and never heard back from them. Yeah. I was like: “I can't, I can't do that. I'm sorry. That's just not”.

And then I found out a few other groups also got cheap rent and moved there, and I said, I get it. It's cheap rent, but you’re the Vera Institute, come on. You all can go somewhere else. You guys have a lot of funding. I was like, and then they're all people of color. I'm like, it doesn't matter. Like a lot of the non-profits were all people of color. Right. Like, that doesn't matter to me [if you’re] part of the problem.

Gabriela: Yes. And could share a moment where you felt proud about like, [thinking] the community is going into the right direction, like, all the Sunset Park communities together, or Asian community. What, what would be the moment that you were like…

Betty: Oh definitely. The moment when, there was that marathon, 12, 13 hour hearing that was on Zoom, that defeated the expansion of Industry City, right? Because they were already privatized, you know, under the highway. It used to be that anyone could park there. Right now it's metered. I mean, they were trying to literally privatize the sidewalks. And they got defeated.

You know, Jamestown Properties spent so much money on PR money, all this money to try to get that final expansion. But the people came through and the city council, I mean, what's his face? He's not in City Council anymore. You know who I'm talking about? The guy from El Paso, who was the city council. Menchaca. He was wishy-washy all the way through. It's so complicated. I know Kelly, who I am, I'm like a consultant under the film. It's complicated, right? Because he was wishy-washy. He would go with the wind, kind of, and it's like, people were like, no. I mean, I was there at that meeting when people shut it down at the auditorium. It was a 15 minute meeting because he was too wishy-washy.

Gabriela: And what happened in that meeting? I don't know what happened.

Betty: I don't know what happened… Maybe it was, I don't even remember now.

Gabriela: Was it during the process of the rezoning?

Betty: It was through the process. Right. People came in numbers and people attacked him, rightfully so. 'cause he wasn't, he was like: “I'm still gonna make my decision”. I was like: “What are you talking about? So many people have written, you met with you, the Chinatown community”... everybody at that point.So many people. So the Chinatown community, one of the Protect Sunset Park, which I can give you a name of folks to talk to… Maybe you've reached out to them. They brought folks out like at the very end of the Industry City [process]. The last few hearings, you know, it was all during Covid. So they called in, they testified, and a lot of folks talked about how it would affect them.

But anyway, what had happened was the power went out. I don't know what, in the auditorium. The power just went out. I think it was one of those summer days where, you know, the power, there was like power issues. And at one point, the community had the cell phone light and everything. And Menchaca was probably feeling very uncomfortable. He goes: “Oh, we gotta shut down.”

So he shut it down. And all these people were ready to testify… So the people stayed, and I heard all the testimony, but all of his people left.

Gabriela: Wow.

Betty: So two months or three months later, I don't remember now, months later. 'cause he had been doing investigative work and listening to people, but then came time for the hearing, people testified over and over and over again against the rezoning, because they thought that with the pandemic and with Zoom, that nobody knew how to use Zoom or whatever. They underestimated the community. Yeah. The developers and the city definitely underestimated the people, but they came out strong, and they held up that hearing for 12, 13 hours. And then that's when Menchaca had to stand with the people. . . And that was a moment, that was a moment that was like, people were so proud. It was so amazing. It was so amazing. I mean, I remember, there was part of the hearing where it was amazing… It was very experimental.

There were people literally calling in from Zoom at a protest in front of Industry City, like Marcela Mitaynes, who's now…

Gabriela: While being there physically?

Betty: Yeah, Marcela [Mitaynes] —who is now a state assembly member, who got reelected now— standing in front of Industry City, being like: “I am standing in front of Industry City over Zoom. And there’s people protesting”

Gabriela: Wow.

Betty: All over time. I mean, it was the most amazing thing where they really pushed the limits. I mean, they pushed the technology. So phone and video and all kinds of things where I was like, whoa. I was super impressed. I was like: “this is absolutely amazing that you are, that the energy they made”. I mean that was organizing. They worked their asses off. It didn't just happen. People came together and said: “this is it. We, even if we don't like each other, whatever it is, we've gotta work together.” And that was absolutely beautiful.

During the height of Covid, summer of 2020, people were obviously like during the uprisings and everything. And then he had no choice.

But of course he says: “Oh, yeah, I'm standing. I've always stood with the people” like Menchaca. I know, I know that other people think of him differently. That's fine. But I think he just knew he had to leave a good legacy. If he wants to move up in office, he can't leave like that. So he had to weigh it out: “Okay, do I go with the people or do I go with the developers?” There was a moment where people were like: “Oh, is he gonna, is he looking for a job with the developers? Is he gonna go that route?” Because he's young. He's in his thirties. Yeah. Like, he still has a whole whatever ahead, his whole life ahead of him. But he did the right thing. And thankfully, the people made him do the right thing. He didn't just do the right thing on his own. So that was really beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful to see that. It was really beautiful.

Gabriela: Thank you for sharing that thing. And what would you tell, you know, or recommend to the new generations of organizers in Sunset Park?

Betty: Wow.

Gabriela: The young people, not only organizer people—activists, organizers, residents.

Betty: Yeah. That's a really, really great question.

Gabriela: Looking up, considering what is happening, so many changes.

Betty: I know something's happening.You know, I feel like, this sounds like such an overblown terminology, the word intersectionality, right? People have been doing that for a long time, but now all of a sudden, everyone's using this word. But I think the only way we're really gonna win in general with the housing fight is when we see it as obviously a part of a larger struggle. And I know we all do, but in terms of really kind of crossing over to show up to other fights, right?

And so, I think that there was this beautiful moment, you know, obviously during the uprisings of 2020, of course, we were all locked down, and a lot of us, that was the first time we went out of our homes and stuff like that. But like, a lot of understanding the intersections of issues.

And I think that for, and the only reason why I'm saying that is because I think in Manhattan Chinatown… a lot of what we're doing now within Chinatown a is trying to talk about these issues through a lens of abolition. So abolition of, again, abolition work has been obviously going on forever, since the days of slavery. And slave folks fighting. But in terms of the abolition of all these oppressive systems and what do they look like, right?

So it's like capitalism basically, right? That prisons and, you know, poor housing like wages and, you know, wages and all these issues are all really connected. Because what's happening in Chinatown is Manhattan's Chinatown very similar to Brooklyn, which, but in Manhattan, there's, as you probably have heard, the new jail that's opening up in Chinatown, it's gonna be actually the tallest jail in the world, that they're building.

And so, coupled with that is the fact that the Museum of Chinese in America accepted this $35 million for their space, you know, they, in return, they had to say, you know, we love, we want this jail here. And they got money from the city. So the city jail is going up. And we're finding, like the way that we, as speaking for myself as not a young, young person, but someone who's approaching maybe soon middle age, how do we talk to our parents about these issues?

Because I think there's a huge divide between, and I can only speak for, I've heard from other immigrant generations of Latinos and South Asians, and East Asians, of course, is this divide between how you talk about these issues with your elders, with your parents, right? They think: “Oh, you're young college educated, you know, privileged. You don't know what you're talking about. Actually talking about abolition, talking about all this, you know, socialism and, you know, kind of ideas”. Like, you're a pie in this sky. You don't know what you're talking about. You never worked a hard day in your life kind of thing, and you have the older generation, right?

That's like, you can't dismiss everything that they've seen. They've been through. My parents have been through a lot, you know, they've been robbed , like, you know, every other week. I mean, you name it, things have happened. I've been on the train. I remember in the eighties when, you know, you just give your things away. You know, that somebody would come down the aisle and with a bag, and you just knew to give up all your stuff. I mean, it literally was just open like that.

So I understand that. So how do folks talk to their elders about issues around abolition and social justice struggles? And I really see it really clearly in the division between the Chinese Americans and their parents, because I have to say, a lot of the Asian Americans who are coming to New York as college students, right? [They] really look down, honestly, some of them, not all of 'em, they really have a very classist attitude toward older Chinese folks, right? And older Chinese folks, like my parents, have a lot of lived experiences. They're smart people. You know, they've, they've been through a lot.

They've seen a lot. You know, they don't come to the conclusion of their political viewpoint just because they've been through a lot. And so, how do we actually meet folks where they're at? 
There's some humility that has to happen. I think a lot of young Asian Americans who are like this all theory, but no practice. So what's the practice of, of theory and practice? And I think that there's a lot of, like, people talking about abolition and all these words that have no translation in Chinese, decolonize, decolonization, gentrification, all these words abolition. There's no direct translation actually in Chinese. So how do we talk about it in ways that make sense? Right. Not dumbing down, because there's no need to do that. Right? Because they understand and sometimes they actually know better in many ways, they have a lived experience. So I see that as a big barrier and all that to say that for the future generation, there's a lot, I have a lot of hope actually in the future generation in many ways. Because you see a lot of the organizing that's happening, obviously we're up against a lot right now in, in, in the country, in the world.

But I think that the only way that we're gonna actually build a much larger movement is when we see how the issues are connected, supporting each other on our issues. And also we have to, it has to be intergenerational. Because young folks who are, you know, coming from their cocky, college educated, you know: “I've read Marx and Lenin and you know, Gramsci” they're all, it's all theoretical. But they don't have any lived experience. That's where there's this divide. And so I'm very sensitive to that because I come from a working class background because of my parents and who they are. Because of my past history with community organizing and the work that I do, that I am very, very sensitive to that actually. So when you have young, young folks coming in, I'm like: “This is not the way to do it. This is not the way to do it. Yeah. This is not gonna convince people.”

So I don't know. I would just say humility,  learning, meeting people where they're at. Learn first before you talk. Listen and learn and build relationships with folks in the community. Don't think that you know better because you're a younger person and in some many cases you're a newcomer. . . And for the folks that are not newcomers and they're from here, there still needs to be some humility, you know? so I would say that, but one last thing I wanna say also in Sunset Park is, I don't know if you've had a chance to talk with some of the folks from Mexicanos Unidos. They’re an interesting group. Yes. I don't know how local they are. I know they're obviously doing the stuff with the vendors. It is amazing. Which is all tied. But I would say that they're amazing, just some of the work that they've been doing is actually really, really amazing. And I know a lot of local folks are doing a lot of work with them. So there's like an intersection of a lot of amazing work.

Again, I think very divided, right? Because the Chinatown community, [even if] they hear what's been happening. They don't go over there. Because, you know,

Gabriela: They're not working with them?

Betty: Not so much. There are Asian Americans I know that are activists, who have been working with them. There's a group called Decolonize This Place that you probably have heard of. A number of them have moved there to Sunset Park. But as roommates, they've become very active with Mexicanos Unidos and trying to do different work. I know they had an event I wanted to go, but the air was bad on Saturday. Saturday they had an event in Sunset Park for kids and families. But I didn't, I couldn't go.

But, it's really inspiring work. But I also think there's divisions, right? Like between the Central Americans and the Caribbean Spanish speakers. And it's always, always that, always that and we can't seem to overcome that, you know, unfortunately, you know, and the developers and the powers-that-be in the government, they know all of that. They figure out how to divide and conquer.

But this administration's terrible. The Adams administration, I mean, yeah, obviously De Blassio was bad around housing and certain things, but my God, Eric Adams is 10 times worse. He's like a combo of Giuliani and Bloomberg put together between the housing and the police. The policing. It's like 10 times. He's 10 times worse. It's so bad. It is so bad. And then he halted the three K-12 programs in certain neighborhoods. It's… he's terrible.

Gabriela: Yeah. I mean, this is really impacting directly the immigrant communities, these two things, housing and police.

Betty: It's exactly right. It's not a combination. I mean, that's the thing in Sunset Park, you know, the increase of police, right? It's not put there to protect the longtime residents. But again, that's the issue. Asian Americans, right? You probably know this, but Asian Americans during the Anti-Asian hate rise, they hired private security, and they wanted the police to come in.

You know, NYPD started a task force just to target Anti-Asian hate from, is that gonna really keep us safe? So groups like CAAAV who started 40 years ago fighting police brutality of Asians are trying to say like: “Hello? Like, this is not what's gonna keep us safe”.  Like these people with guns walking around, it's not, you know, we have to find alternatives to keeping each other safe. . . So there's all these vigilante Asian-American groups now patrolling Sunset Park.

Patrolling Chinatown in Manhattan. So it's crazy. There's, in Sunset Park, if you go to the corner of 59th and Eighth Avenue, the larger condos that are up, there's been a private security force that looks like cop cars. It's called Asian... I'll send it to you. They're really funny. It's like Asian Cop. So something, it's like, it looks like NYPD, everything looks like it, but it's not.

They've been around for 20 years. Oh, patrolling the neighborhood, right. To keep certain people out, basically. So, yeah. The only hope I have for the Chinese American community, honestly, is, is, is the intersectionality. I mean once we see that our struggles are very connected and need to be multiracial, multiracial beyond identity politics, because identity politics is what's gonna kill the Asian American community right now because we're being poisoned by all of this, you know, freaking… What do you call it?  Affirmative action.

And, you know, Asians trying to be white, white ascension, you know, all of it has absolutely poisoned the Asian American community. . And that is truly what's happening. It's poisoning the community. . , and we have to look beyond identity politics.

I think class and economics is what is going to be the unifier amongst all of us. You know, in these kinds of issues. But it's really hard right now. It's very, I mean, I see it in my nieces and nephews, right. They feel like: “Oh yeah, affirmative action's hurting”, you know, like, it's, it's terrible. It's terrible. You know, I can go off on that for a long time because it's obviously just happened and it's happening. Asians are on the wrong side of the fight, a lot of them. At least. Not everyone, of course, but a lot of them. Yeah. So, I don’t know.

Gabriela: Wow. This conversation has been so powerful. Thank you so much. I don't know, like if you want to say anything?

Betty: No, no. I just, I mean, I was just gonna say that last part of just how impressive the vendors, the Mexicanos Unidos and the vendors taking over Sunset Park, mainly undocumented… That you know, they have been really steadfast and trying to make a point. But unfortunately, you know, the police have really been extra brutal toward them.

Gabriela: Yeah, I hope we can have a conversation, one of them for this project.

Betty: Definitely. Definitely.

Gabriela: Okay. Well thank you so much.

Betty: Yeah. Of course. Thank you, . Thank you. And I hope I answered all the questions. I kind of looked at the questions ahead of time, so I was like trying to…