Maria Walles

Lewis: [00:00:00] My name is Lynn Lewis, and I am interviewing Maria Walles for the Picture the Homeless Oral History Project. And it is December 2nd, 2022, and very happy to be here with you in Zoom-land Maria. How are you?
 
Walles: Good, good, good. I got plenty of rest from last night. Yeah. I’m good. [Laughs]
 
Lewis: We're going to start it out, as I mentioned, with some questions about your early life history, where you're from, things you want to share. So we get to know you a little bit. So where are you from?
 
Walles: [00:00:40] I was born and raised in Brooklyn. I stayed in Greenpoint for a minute, but then I was—I stayed in Brooklyn, different Brooklyn. I moved to Manhattan. I lived in the fifties; my mom told me. Yeah, I lived in the 50th Street area for like, a good two years, two or three years. And then we moved from Brooklyn, Manhattan, still in Manhattan, but to the Upper West Side.

Lewis: And when you say we...

Walles: My family—my mom, my dad, and my two sisters.

Lewis: [00:01:22] And how old were you, more or less, when you moved to the Upper West Side?

Walles: Say, like almost four.

Lewis: Okay. So, you spent most of your childhood there?

Walles: Yeah. Yeah. So all the changes—saw a lot of changes growing up throughout the Upper West Side.

Lewis: Tell me about what some of those changes were.

Walles: Well… Just like, just living in the neighborhood—been living there all your life, and starting to notice a lot of changes, like a lot of business have shut down. You know, a lot of business are still there—and then they shut down again. They just couldn't pay the rent. I don't know. I feel like there's a lot of different buildings going up, you know, around on the Upper West Side, like gentrification going on. I would say.

Lewis:[00:02:31] What part of the Upper West Side did you all live?

Walles: The 96th Street area.

Lewis: Okay. Pretty bustling. Pretty busy around there.

Walles: Yes, Yes. I—yes, I love that area. You know, I love that area. Going out, having access to it. I could just walk to Columbia University. I could just walk to… I could walk anywhere if I wanted to.
 
Lewis:[00:03:04] And I've heard you talk about your dad quite a bit and your mom. So tell me some things about your mom and dad, maybe some favorite memories or things you want to share.

Walles: Growing up, going out, them taking us to the WWF/E, [unclear] Rockford fairs. So, growing up my mom took us to see a lot of wrestling. When we was growing up—with Rocky, with Dwayne Johnson's dad and the Samoans, Hulk Hogan, Bob Backlund—old school. When, they were coming to the Felt Forum, when they was coming to Madison Square Garden. You know, back in those ‘80’s, you know, [smiles] it was cheap to get tickets and take the whole entire family out—discount if you had more kids, you know. I went to a lot of restaurants, went to Broadway plays, went to a lot of movies growing up, watched a lot of Disney on Ice stuff—even went to… Back in the days we listened to CBS-FM, that was my mom's favorite station. And so we used to go to Doo-Wop concerts a lot. [Laughs] My mom would literally let us go and see the Doo-Wop concerts; you know what I'm saying? So, it was really nice to do that—to The Temptations and all the other people. Ricky Nel… What was that guy's name? I think it was Ricky Nelson. Yeah. Ricky Nelson. I saw him perform before he passed away.  I think he was at the Felt Forum, Madison Square Garden, you know. But other than that. Yeah.

Walles: [00:05:14] You know, even when I got older, I was able to, you know, go to movies, plays and stuff like that with my mom. Once time me and my mom, we went to see Monique at the comedy club on 50th Street—Carolines. So, I took her to see that, and she really enjoyed it when The Parkers was on the air, when she first started being on TV. So, we really enjoyed ourselves. Going to see Monique and her jokes, [smiles] you know? You know, stuff like that. You know, my father, he would take us out to dinner. Mostly dinner and stuff like that. You know, our family has always been like that. He's always been like that. He was a big soccer fan and used to play soccer. My father was in the… He knew how to play instruments. You know, I play guitar. My father was a musician, he was just quiet about it. Maybe that's the reason why my daughter—both, you know, both my daughters are into music, you know?

Lewis:[00:06:33] And tell me your parents’ names.

Walles: Oh, my. My mom's name was Addie, and my father's name is Jorge. Jorge.

Lewis: Well, thank you, Maria. And you have two sisters. Are you in the middle or the older? The younger—where are you in there?

Walles: I'm the second. I do have a older brother from a previous relationship that my mom had, but I'm like, the second oldest. I, you know… I consider myself the second oldest, you know, because my oldest brother is a couple of years older than me.

Lewis: All right. And, tell me about your daughters.

Walles: Well, my oldest daughter is thirty. My youngest is nineteen. They're both in college now. I'm in college two, myself. So, two of my babies, they're both in college. I do have a grandson. His name is T.J. He's twelve, [smiles] so, he's getting better and everything. He's doing very—he's doing excellent in school. Matter of fact, all three of them are doing excellent at school.
 
Lewis: Wow. I know you're really proud of them.

Walles: Yeah! Yeah. Yes, and I'm proud of my nieces and my nephews—proud of all of them.

Lewis: [00:08:08] So you had mentioned, Allan. You want to tell me about Allan?
Tell us—bring into the space.

Walles: [Smiles] Yeah. I met Allan back in 2001 when I was in... I was going to a GED program, twice a week. Was it twice a week? Yeah, I think I was going there twice a week and we had a class—we went to night school. So I think it was either six to eight or five to eight, something like that. Anyway, we went to school together. It was either between him or his friend. And I chose him and found out prior to when I met him, he just got out of a relationship. He just got out of a relationship and at that time I just came out of a relationship. But mine—I waited a long time to finally go out with somebody. Even though I was going out with other—other brothers. I still made sure, “Well listen, I'm taking my time.” You know, I'm just going through a bad relationship, and it went sour.

Walles: [00:09:29] So when I met Allan, he—he turned my life around and he made me a different person, where I showed him—you know, he showed me different things that I never expected. I learned a lot from him, you know, it’s that… I guess it's because when you both live in—when you're both brought up in different, different situations, where, you know, you have our mom... I mean, first I thought he had—it was both of his parents, which, you know, it's hard… To me in my situation, where every time I met any of my exes, it was “the mom, the mom, the mom.” But when I met him—at first I thought it was his dad. And I was like, “God.” I was like, “Thank God.” You know, because I wanted to see. Finally, I have someone that has their mom and their dad in their lives, you know. Because it was hard. It was hard. And, you know, normally they said, “Oh, you know…” With men it’s always, “single mom, single mom, single mom.” But with Allan, I thought at the time that was his father. But it wasn't. And he was like a step, step-father. But he didn’t like that word, so he just called him dad. Unfortunately, his biological father passed away. I never got the opportunity and chance to meet him. And actually, his father's half black, half Italian. So, yeah, I got... So, that's why my daughter’s mixed with Italian, Mexican, Brazilian. You know, and my oldest is Black, Mexican, Brazilian. But I didn't know I was Mexican until after my father passed away, so.
 
Lewis: [00:11:21] So tell me that story. How did you find out? Why did you find out at that age?

Walles: Yeah, it was like right after my dad passed away. I was waiting for Tony, and it was way before Alexis even existed. It was kind of shocking and, you know, I'm thinking of all the jokes that my father used to say,  “Oh, you. You—you know. You, Puerto Rican.” You know, he used to make jokes and I would laugh, like, “Oh, yeah…” Because growing up we always saw forty-one and forty-seven [Spanish language television channels] growing up. That’s all we used to watch, channel forty-one, forty-seven. It was Telemundo. Telemundo, Telemundo. And what was that show that got canceled, that was on for a long time? We grew up watching that. So, you know, we didn't speak Spanish but he—I guess he wanted to make sure that we had, we heard Spanish in the house, even though we didn't speak the language.

Walles: [00:12:27] You understand? Because growing up, I always said, “I'm Brazilian, Brazilian, Brazilian.” But I felt like I was mixed with something, because then when I used to tell people I’m Brazilian they’d be like, “Really?” I'm like, “Yeah.” You know, they probably won't be…. But then I would get like, “Oh, you don’t look Brazilian. You look—you look Dominican, you look Puerto Rican.” You know? And I'd be like, “Oh.” So, I mean, I knew I had some Latin blood in me, but it didn't come ‘til later. I mean, I'm not upset with my dad or anything. It's just that I'm glad I was able to find out that I was mixed with—that there was some sort of Hispanic in me. You know, it didn't matter. You know, I'm not upset. You know, I was shocked! And my mother was like, “Oh!” So, I mean, it didn’t really, really upset me. You know, when my other two sisters found out, they wasn't upset at all. They was like, “Okay!” You know, I didn't find out until I was like in my thirties, like thirty, thirty-one when I found out it was Mexican. You know, so it didn't matter.

Lewis: [00:13:39] And your daughters, tell me their names.

Walles: Toni,

Lewis: Toni?

Walles: Toni, and my youngest is Alexis.

Lewis: You know, last time I saw Alexis, she was... It was when we were painting that mural.
 
Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: But I—I remember when she was, like a little baby.

Walles: Yeah [smiles] I take—I take her to actions and stuff like that.

Lewis: [00:14:13] It sounds like your mom has—has been very supportive as a grandma with her grandchildren.

Walles: Mm-Hmmmm.

Lewis: And so could you just share a little bit about your—because not every family is that way, right? And so could you just share some things about your family and how your mom has really, I think—sounds like has been a big support?

Walles: Yeah. She’s, I mean, she was always very supportive of the work I do as far as organizing, advocating, advocacy work. She would like—like I would tell her what's going on. And she’d be like, “Oh, that's good Maria. “ Or when I would tell her, you know, “I'm the only…” I think when I told her I was the only woman in a group and she was like, [makes a laughing sound]. So, it was like… but I told her I was able to stand up for myself and be able to handle certain things. I mean, yeah, I—“Ha-ha-ha.” I laughed at the jokes that they would say, but up to a certain point, I dealt with it, you know? I was able, I was determined.

Walles: [00:15:33] And when I started getting more heavily involved with Picture the Homeless and dealing with other organizations like the Solidarity Center, she really got interested… Workers World. When I would get those things in the mail, she would read them, “Yeah, Mom, you can read it.” And she would read it and stuff like that. So she was, you know, very supportive of all the work I've done, especially—to this day. Dealing with, you know, the theater work I do, Theatre of the Oppressed, NYC—she was very supportive of the show. My family was very supportive of the show. I think my whole entire family is very supportive of the work I do. You know, they're very proud of me and stuff. And you know, both of my kids—my girls, you know, And my son, too. You know, Allan's son—my son. Devon, yeah. I just—the like the “stepson thing”. But I—I'll be respectful about it.

Lewis:[00:16:35] So you had mentioned earlier that Allan showed you things that you didn't know about. And what are some of the kinds of things that Allan brought into your life?

Walles: Just like, moving on into a relationship and taking my time in the relationship because, you know, [smiles] back in the day, you know, they still do it to this day. I had like a little rule, and I said, “Mm-mmm, you know, you got to wait. You got to wait.” So, I think it was like a three month, three to six month rule. So, you got to wait. We can hug, we can kiss, because that's it. That's it. That's it. [Laughs] And that’s laying it out too bare.

Walles: [00:17:24] But then at the same time, it was more about the neighborhood where he was, because at the time he was living in Harlem. You know what I'm saying, he was born and raised in Brooklyn, but he stayed in Harlem, with family. And so he would show me around the neighborhood, and I would show him around my neighborhood, and he was like, “Oh, okay, I like it!” But then it’s like... Diversity. At that time, you know [imitates his voice], “Oh, it's more Caucasians in the Upper West Side and you got more Blacks and Hispanics and Arabs and everybody else, in Harlem.” So, it was like, you didn't really see too many... You know, you did see the diversity on the Upper West Side, but it was more of a, “Oh, okay. You live here?” I’m like, “Yeah!”  You know, the color of your skin. Things do change throughout the years, you know? So that's what I used to do, you know. Just teach him, not teach him but just to let him know, “Hey, this is where I grew up, the school I went to…” You know, just everything. You know, he taught me a lot, and I taught him a lot.

Lewis: How old were you two when you—when you met?

Walles: I was thirty-one? Thirty-two. Thirty-one, thirty-two.

Lewis: [00:19:07] So tell me about how you met Picture the Homeless.

Walles: Oh! Well, I'm just going to say this. Before I got involved with Picture the Homeless, I was involved with Community Voices Heard. But I got involved in organizing with the United Federation of Teachers. So, before Picture the Homeless I was involved with Community Voices Heard… Community Voices Heard and United Federation of Teachers.

Walles: [00:19:36] But as far as Picture the Homeless is concerned, that's when I met Nikita, when we was going through the EAU, PATH, and that's when I met you. So… And I think—and y’all came down, I guess to find out what was going on, back in 2007, the fall of 2007. [Smiles] I would say. When they was just kicking families out. For what?! I don't know at that time. [Pauses] Put it… I would say at that time [bangs table for emphasis], even though the EAU or PATH, whatever you want to call it, had services like [taps on table] ACS [Administration for Children’s Services] in there, which surprises me! But then, when you’re kicking families out of their—out of the shelters, in the streets… Isn't that illegal? Isn't that—that's where you take a kid away?
 
Walles: [00:20:44] And when I did—at that time I thought I was cool with them. I was trying to have a—at that time, I was trying to build a relationship with them, you know, because I felt like if I build a relationship I think they could try to help me! Which I tried to do, unfortunately, that didn’t work. All I remember that day was, “Listen. Could you help us!?” I could—because I told Allan, “Listen, let me approach her.” I said, “I'm cool with them.” That didn’t help. And so it was like, “Well, why y’all here then?” They knew about these things happening. Why y’all here? You know? That’s the reason why—that’s the reason why, you know—that's why y’all here. To help us, not to deny us.

Walles: [00:21:28] And that was—that was the problem. You have to have all this all this paperwork; you know what I saying? “Two years history—where your lived, was you on the streets, this, that and the other… Your birth certificate, your Social Security card...” Every day you had to keep—you have to show them that because I was doing overnights at PATH, because I wasn't accepted for temporary housing, which was sickening! And it was sad, you know, it took—it took them... It took them finally, first time when I was homeless—two years—almost two years to say, “Hey, you was found eligible.” What's your side? Because we had to separate our family and to—and-and-and-and to this day, you know, shelters are still crowded. It's not the same. It's still the same, still getting denied. You know, people are-are-are, fed up! You know, you want the services, but you're scared to get the services and then it's like, “Okay, I showed you everything.” “Oh, sorry. You got to do overnights, overnights, overnights.”

Lewis: [00:22:34] Maria, for people that don't I don't know about how the system—I won't say how it works, because it doesn't work for folks.

Walles: No.

Lewis: I want to go back a little bit and ask you to explain. For example, when you mentioned the EAU and then the PATH. Were you all applying to the EAU first and then the PATH, and what those things are.

Walles: Well, I went to PATH. PATH at the time was located on Cyprus Avenue, at the time, but now it's back at 149th Street. But back then, back in 2007, me and Allan and our daughter Alexis, went there. You had to fill out paperwork. The night that I went there, I got there late the night that we went there. We slept at an overnight. But before all that, you had to fill out your paperwork, you know, you had to let them know about your birth certificate, your Social Security card and stuff like that. So, the first night we went there, we did all that. We went through the scanner and stuff. By the way, Allan bought some food and the first thing they told him was, “Oh, no. You can't bring that in here.” So, the young—I'll never forget her face. The sister was nice enough to say, “Listen, the heat’s on. Your food will be warm.” [Smiles] Because it was next to a heater. So, and she was like, “Wait, wait. When you get your paperwork, we give it back to you.” And he was like, “Oh, okay. We’re not stressing.” We didn’t care. We was like, “Okay, as long as we, you know…” As long as he got the food. That was the most important thing.

Walles: [00:24:13] So, we did the paperwork and everything. I mean, I was scared. He was scared. And my daughter, at the time, she was happy. You know, she didn’t know what was going on. All I know, is that I was happy that me and Allan was going to be together at the thing. At that time, we didn't know how stressful it was going to be. [Taps on table for emphasis] We didn't know that we had to go through all the loophole just to get services. “Oh, you’ve been denied. Oh, you need to go in the streets.” You and your… And it's… The first time, we wasn't married at the time. We was just—that was my fiancée. “Okay. You're… As long as his name was on the birth certificate, he's entitled to be with you. If his name is not on the birth certificate? Uh-Uhhh… You got to register to make sure that his name gets on the birth certificate.

Walles: [00:25:04] I listened to what these people told me to do—which was the caseworkers that are in there, the investigators that were there, that was handling our cases. I don’t know how many of them I spoke to and, “Oh, okay. Well, y’all need to get married.” So, that's what we did. We got denied three times. First time, “Oh, you can't go. You can't stay here.” Fine. All right. Second time. “Oh, you can't stay here.” Okay. We finally said, “Oh, let's get married.” We finally got married, and that still didn’t help! I was like, “Well, when y'all want us to do?!” You know, you talk about, “Oh, you know, your daughter shouldn’t be doing…” I’m like, “But if you settle us in a shelter or where we're supposed to stay, I'll do it!” I was the type of person, and I told them in the effect, “I'll do whatever you ask me to do! As long as my daughter is settled in, we don't give a flying fluke. I'll do whatever y’all ask me. I’ll go to school. I'll do this..” Because the shelters I did go to, they was willing to help me. “Oh, you want to go to school, Maria? No, no problem.” We did stay at a… This one shelter, it was a Help USA. Yeah, we stayed at a Help USA. [Smiles] [Unclear] And they was willing to help us. And we went there like—we, we been in that shelter three, two to three times!

Lewis: [00:26:31] So let me—let me ask a question just so the process is clear. You all were applying—you went to the PATH to apply for shelter. And when you say they sent you to an overnight.

Walles: Yeah. Overnights mean—is that if you don't qualify for temporary housing, you do qualify to stay at an overnight. It’s the law. It's the law. [Bangs the table for emphasis] They have to give you somewhere to sleep at, for the rest of the evening. I think it’ll start at five and ended at like around three, four o’clock in the morning, five o’clock in the morning. Something like that.

Lewis: [00:27:11] How did you get out? Did they take you out there or did you take the train?  
 
Walles: They put us on a cheese bus, [laughs] like those school busses.

Lewis: They would load up?

Walles: [00:27:24] Yeah, we’d look… I don’t know how—it was so many families rolling out their bags. I mean, you couldn’t tell how many bags me and Allan had, with our big girl. Yeah, we had so… We had like, three or four bags, every day. It was tiring after a while. We would leave at five, six o’clock in the evening. It depends what time we would get there. Like, say we was going to get there at eight. Like, say, seven. We sign the paperwork, we do the application, we show them my I.D. and everything. We do it. We go through the process and then say like, eight-thirty, eight o’clock…  They load us on a bus. Okay, you get your receipt. “Oh, this is overnight where you’re staying.” They put us on the bus, and half an hour, hour—depends how long the traffic is.

Walles: [00:28:16] So basically, while we are on the bus, we’d talk about stuff. How they was. We got a chance to meet families, at the time. We did have—we did try to build a relationship with some of the families, some of the families that were going through the things that we was going through and try to have like a good relationship. We tried to keep ourselves company. You know, if we didn't have nothing to do we would just drop our bags off and go to the park. We stayed by Saint Mary's Park, you know, so it was easy access to get to the six train. It was easy access to get to the two and the five.

Walles: [00:28:50] So, you know, we—we went through a lot to the point that even I took risk—to the point that one day, I just got fed up. It's like, “Oh, y’all don't want to give us anything to do. It's sad that y’all need to have programs. Why, you know I'm saying it's like, “Well, how about people that have nothing to do? You—y’all not helping us because if y’all was helping us we would be in… You understand what I'm saying?” They was like... They really didn’t have too much for us to do. So basically, we had to find our own activities to do. You know what I’m saying? If you didn't have nowhere to go, if you didn't have no money, all you could do is just stay in that area. And we just, I would say fifty percent of the time I did stay in that area, where I did go to Saint Mary's Park, and they had activities during the summer, and I would go. That's how my daughter got involved in tennis. One example, that's how she got involved in tennis, because I took her to a tennis camp for one day. Even though the teacher was looking at her [smiles] as, “She’s so small. I can only do so much with her.” I was like, “Oh, thank you.” But that's an example.

Walles: [00:30:04] I mean, you got the opportunity to meet new people, even at the park. We-we-we—we’d go to Saint Mary’s. The workers knew us! The park workers knew us, and they’d say, “Oh, hey, how you doin?” I’d be like, “Fine.” You know what I’m saying? People in—in that community knew us, you know? And it's sad because it's like, I just wish at that time that they had accepted us and everything, you know? She [daughter Alexis] would’ve—we wouldn't had this separation gap where, okay, she stayed with family and friends. Because that should have never happened. [Banging table for emphasis] She should have been with us at that time, stayed at a shelter at the time, which was HELP Morris USA, which was very good at the time. I had no issues with the place, and they was willing to help us! But then when you said, “Oh, you've been denied, you can't stay here no more.” It broke my heart because I’m like—I thought that I was going to stay here.

Lewis: [00:31:07] So Maria, when they would send you someplace while they, I guess, investigated your application, at one of those times they sent you to Help USA? And then later...

Walles: Yeah, they sent us to Help USA, there's one of the shelters. You know, you got to do the ten day placement, to see if you qualify. You know, I didn't know at that time—I didn’t know. I learned it through Picture the Homeless that hey! Help USA was under Cuomo. I was like… Oh! So, that’s how I learned about it, was through Picture the Homeless. [Laughs] “Oh no Maria, Help USA is under Cuomo.” Oh! [Laughs]

Lewis: [00:31:55] So, talk to me about the family separation, you’re… Explain for folks so they understand how those policies really affected people.

Walles: Well, since they kept denying us and denying us, we decided to go as a couple. Because we did the whole... I’d say like the first six months we tried to do it as a family, but it seemed like it wasn't working out. So we decided to go as a couple. And at the time it was really hard for me to like… I didn’t really want my daughter to stay at family—at, you know—at families and friends. At times she would stay with a friend of Allan's, and unfortunately, he passed away. He was formerly homeless himself, and him and his wife were homeless, and they went into the shelter and his wife and him were child care providers. And so they loved my daughter that they was like, “Okay, you know, the wife was like, she could stay with us while y’all get yourselves together.” I was like, “Oh, okay, no problem.”

Walles: [00:33:27] So we took that risk, and me and Allan decided to do the “adult family”. That was the same, but it was weird how with families, they want a two year history—with adult families they want a one year history. Same bureaucracy as adult family, except there was a, or one year thing. So, I was like, “Oh!” So, we showed them all the paperwork we had throughout the one year, which was those overnights.

Walles: [00:34:09] To explain what all overnight is you—if you don't qualify for, I'll repeat this again. If you don't qualify for temporary housing in a family shelter, you have to do—by law, you have to go and do an overnight with your child, or your children. And that runs at night from five o’clock until the next day. They—you go on a school bus; you go to your destination—it's in all the five boroughs. And to make the long story short, you go, you stay at the overnight, you take a shower, you do what you got to do, you do your homework with your kids—you know, to get yourself ready for the next day. The next day the bus comes, pick you up and drops you back to the EAU in the Bronx. As far as adult family is concerned, adult family is for couples and a mom that has a nineteen year… I think, you know, they have to be at least nineteen and older or eighteen and older to stay in an adult family. The majority of these adult family shelters, they are not cook facili—they don't have a cooking facility. They will give you a refrigerator, they do have refrigerators in the facility, at the place you're staying at. And, yeah, and you have to share the bathroom. You share the bathroom; You have your own room. It can be a small room, medium room; big room and you have to share the bathroom. That's the only thing I didn't like about it. When I was in a—when I did the overnights, I had to share a bathroom, but I dealt with that. But when I got into a family shelter, in a family shelter you don't share the bathroom. You have your own kitchen, your own bathroom. You'd be able to cook in there. I know they probably do have some family shelters that don't have cooking facilities, but you may have to cook in a community room, or whatever. They do have places like that for families.

Lewis: [00:36:25] So when you're doing the—the ten day period when they're determining whether they're deciding whether you're actually homeless or not.

Walles: Yes. It's frustrating. The process is, is that they ask you all these questions, they want proof whether or not you were street homeless or wherever you lived at. So, if you stayed with like—if you stayed for example, if you stayed with a friend—you stayed with your friend, the friend has to give you a letter to say how long he or she has stayed there. You show them—you show all that information to the worker, to the investigator, say, “Here all the proof. Here's my social security card. Here's the proof. I only stayed there just to cook, eat, sleep, and do what I got to do. You know, I only was able to either, you know, live there or I would come there because I just… I didn't have nowhere else to go. I'd take a shower. I would eat here, whatever, and go about my business.”

Lewis: [00:37:32] I have a memory of you, but I don't know, maybe I'm misremembering. But I have this memory of you where you all stayed in—slept in the Lincoln Hospital emergency room?

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: What? What was that about?

Walles: Well, what happened was they kicked us out of the family shelters. They said that we—we got kicked out the family shelter because they kept denying us. They took us in the shelter. We stayed in the placement for like, twelve days, thirteen days, something like that. And then, when we was trying to reapply—because we was like on some type of list, saying we couldn't apply, and they threw out in the midst of the street. Like, “You can't come back here no more.”  Which I felt like at that time was illegal! Because I'm like, “Well, where’s me and my daughter going to sleep? So, me and my daughter—me, Allan, and Alexis, we went to Lincoln Hospital. I mean, it was, “Well, let's go here. Let's make sure that we're okay, and then we sleep.” So that's what we did. We slept at the hospital! At that time, I was scared. I didn't know what to do. I didn’t experience that, and we had a child. And it was scary, because I didn't know what was going to happen. And I think like the next day, they didn't really—they did bother us, but they left us alone. Because they was kicking other people out. They said, because I had a child, “We're not kicking you out. You could stay here.” And that's what we did.

Lewis: There were other homeless folks in the emergency room that—without kids that they kicked out?

Walles: Yeah, a lot of them were single. There was really either couples or families in there.

Lewis: [00:39:33] So tell me, how—do you remember the story of when you met Nikita? Do you remember where that was and what happened?

Walles: [Smiles] I met Nikita when we was at the EA… At I'm sorry, Powers Avenue. Powers Avenue. Yeah, we was at the Powers Avenue EAU and there was… I know he was like, talking to me and Allan and he was asking us questions about the families and stuff, and I spoke how I felt. He saw—I guess he saw something in me. And I guess y'all both saw something in me, [smiles] and they saw… I guess y'all thought I was a very powerful person, powerful woman. Even though there was a lot of… I was scared because I spoke from the heart, and I didn't know if I would get laughed at later. I didn't realize that until later, where I guess they thought, you know,

Walles: [00:40:28] I think the sad part about it was that you had caseworkers there that supported what was going on and then you had caseworkers that didn't support what was going on. So, the ones that we did get along with supported what—they liked me and Allen and our daughter, a lot. And they supported—some of them, you know, showed solidarity because they would walk on by and show solidarity in that they just said, “Oh, you’re going to be okay, blah-blah-blah.” I was taking a risk. I thought, you know, when we did that sleepout, I didn't not want to go back in. I was like, 'No, I might as well just sleep out here!” And I think Nikita's like, “No, because you have a child.” Like, what's she going to do?! She's gonna sleep on me! We have a lounge. It's beautiful out here. No stress, no strain.” “No, Maria.” “I don't care!” “No, Maria.” “No, I don't care!” So, finally we went in, we got our overnight. They saw, they told us, “Don't take your luggage or anything.” And we went to a overnight.

Walles: [00:41:35] And then the next day we came back and everybody looked groggy [laughs] and they said, “Oh! Your stuff was safe.” I'm like, “Yeah, it felt different because we didn’t have to carry a lot of stuff. And yeah, the whole purpose of that sleep out was because of what was going on, how they was just kicking people out for no reason. And the church that the people in the community took some of the families into the churches and stuff and Legal Aid got involved and I remember I went to that Legal Aid… It was like some type of hearing; I think it was at City Hall or something. And when they heard about our story—because I think they was getting ready to go. And then when they heard me and Allan's story, I think the Coalition—that's when the Coalition got involved, and that's how I met Tony. Yeah. That's how I met Tony.

Lewis: Tony Taylor?

Walles: Yeah, yeah. Tony.

Lewis: He's a good guy.

Walles: Yes. Yes. He was real close to Allan. It took quite a long time to finally reach out to him. And then when I finally saw him, you know, I felt like—he was like a big brother to me. You know, he would always say, “Oh, Maria, calm down.” Like, all the stuff I’m going through, and yada-yada-yada… I would argue, argue. [Smiles] And he saw that in me, and then Allan's trying to calm me down, I'm like, “No I'm tired of how the systems treating our family, and blah-blah-blah…” You know.

Lewis: [00:43:24] I have a memory of you coming to the office in the Bronx with these plastic—black plastic bags full of letters saying that you were ineligible for shelter, which basically means you're not really homeless, you're “ineligible”. It must have been many times that they said you were ineligible. Do you remember that?

Walles: Yeah! Six months straight! [Laughs] Six months straight.
 
Lewis: [00:44:55] When you and Allan then decided to have Alexis stay with your friends so you all could get, you know, your situation straight. You only had to show where you've been living for one year,

Walles: Mm-Hmmmm.

Lewis: and then you got placed in a shelter?

Walles: Yeah, I showed them that. And that's all we had with under a year was staying at the hotels, or apartments. And we showed them all—and they had to make all those copies when they saw all those—all those papers for each day that we kept, they was like, “My God!” I'm like, “Well, yeah!”

Lewis: [00:44:57] What was Picture the Homeless like then? What was the office like?

Walles: I felt that at that time y'all was welcoming us in. And then we had—I don't know, I guess it was like, a different environment. It was a safe environment for me and Allan, you know. I guess at that time, Alexis was a baby, so she didn't care. As long as she was in good hands, everything was good. It was to the point that, when I first brought her there, I guess she felt safe because she fell asleep. [Smiles] So, you know, she fell asleep for a long time. And I remember doing the interview—me, Nikita, and Allan, and we did an interview and everything and explained our situation.

Walles: [00:45:51] And, you know, at that time I was trying to be the strong woman, but Allan was the one that was very emotional because he just got tired of going through it, and stressing him out. And, you know, I think to this day, he would've been here [bangs on the table for emphasis] if we didn't go through that whole situation, he would still have been here to this day. And, you know, if you didn't keep denying us and stressing him out. And I'm like, “Well, he’s stressed! I mean, look what y'all doing! You know, you want us—you’re here to help us, but you don't want to help us.”

Walles: [00:46:32] And so, we had to go somewhere else to get help. And we did get help. There was backlashes! That that was another thing—the DHS Department of Homeless Services sees that you were involved in organizing, you're involved with going to these meetings. They backlash, which has happened to me! I had a lot of backlashes, but then I got used to it. Sometimes I would get backlashes or sometimes I would say something, and they couldn't, they couldn't throw backlashes at me because it's the way I say it.

Lewis: [00:47:04] Could you share a time—an example of when you—when they backlashed against you?

Walles: I think when they threw us out, that was a backlash. I think, I think that has a lot to do with that. When they threw us out. And it hurt me. And I think it was the weather was just changing and we didn't expect that to happen. I'm like, “Why are we in the streets? You threw me and my daughter in the streets. They don't want us back.” And they had this big old rule, "Oh you and your daughter can't come back here.” They was doing that to a lot of people. “Oh, y'all can't come back in here.” I'm like, “Isn't that illegal—to throw a family out in the streets like that? Y'all supposed to help us!” That was back in 2007.

Lewis: [00:48:07] So when you first started coming to Picture the Homeless and then—tell me the story of how you started coming to campaign meetings, because I know you were in housing, civil rights, rental subsidies campaign, you became very active. So what was it about Picture the Homeless that made you decide to get involved?

Walles: I think just the environment. The environment where we was in the Bronx, it was easy to get access to you because we was staying in the Bronx so much. Just getting away from PATH. And just… I don't know. I guess it was just the environment and you accepted us, as a family. I think at that time you didn't really had too many—you did have families coming through. And I don't know, you know, I guess because, y’all had—it was in a house and so it was family friendly. And, you know, when I saw that tub, I was like, "Oh shit, y'all have a tub." [Smiles] So, you know, I was able to take showers there and stuff like that. So, and we was able—we didn't have, because we had the front door, we didn't have the other spot until later on, but the point of the matter is that we was able to bring food there, put it in a refrigerator. You was able to clear your head. Usually be able to sleep there, which I've done plenty of times, slept there… You know, you know, you was able to do things there, you know. And going to the meetings, going to the housing meetings, going to the civil rights meetings, you know.

Lewis: [00:50:19] And what were the meetings like? Could you just share –

Walles: I was getting towards the housing meeting at that time... And I felt that I did go to the civil rights, but not as much. And I felt that what y'all was talking about, especially when it came down—because at that time we was dealing with the HSP [Housing Stability Plus] and y'all was talking about that at that time. Because when we was in the shelter that's when the HSP was just like trying to end, or trying to they was trying to get rid of it. You know, people screaming about, “Oh, this is not a working program. It sucked.” You know, it was supposed to be a five year program. First year, what HRA pays the rent and second year you got to put in a certain amount and then the third year you're on your own. That's why a lot of people went back into the system because of the HSP. So that didn't work. And then they brought this Advantage Program, Work Advantage, Child, Fixed Income, Child Advantage... That's sucked. [Laughs] Even though I did get accepted. Me and Allan got accepted. You know.

Lewis: [00:51:44] So, tell me the story of how you were in the apartment. You had a voucher; you had some help. And then you got a letter in the mail saying

Walles: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll never forget that, that one. Well, what happened was I had the Advantage Program. And what happened was in 20—I think it was like 2011? Yeah. 2011, I think was like, late… It was in the wintertime of 2011. We received a letter in the mail. Because the way I found out about it, was one of my neighbors received a letter in the mail. I’m like, “I didn't receive that letter.” She explained to me what the letter was. I’m like, “Oh, I never received it.”

Walles: [00:52:33] So finally, when I received the letter it said, “Oh, it was going to discontinue.” I looked at that letter. I said, “Hell no.” So, I decided in my building, to organize. So, I decided to set up a meeting with the people that had it. It was just me, another couple and two sisters. They were both single women, and they had been—and they both had daughters. So, we organized this. I organized the meeting. We decided to have an organizing meeting that… I think it was like a Saturday night, which I'll never forget. We got the letter. And I got hysterical. And I'll never forget that day. I told my mom, “I got to go!” So, I got the letter and everything, read the letter, and I just couldn't believe it. I was pacing back and forth. I'll never forget that day. And I told Allan, “You need to read this.” And Allan looked at me and said, “Well, what we're going to do?” And that's when I said, “We're forming – we're organizing.” I started the organizing. I called it the Advantage Program Tenant Union. So, that's what we called it. And every week I would organize, we all sat down and talked. It was late Saturday night. We sat down and talked, and we had food. We had drinks. And we just sat down and talked about this. And I said, “Well, it says…” Two of them worked. Matter of fact they all worked.

Walles: [00:54:17] I was the only one at that time who was just going to different meetings. I said, “Listen, y'all working and everything. I'll go to the meetings, and I'll let y'all know what happened.” So, form-up next couple of days and I'll tell them what's going on. They was like, “Oh, okay.” So, every week we was having meetings until it got to the point where one day I just said, “I better call my city council.” I went to my city council office in my district. Well, it was only a couple of blocks and when I showed her the letter and everything, that's when I guess he called somebody and said, "Oh, it was taken care of.” And that's when that lawsuit came out about, “Oh, wow, you know this—why, why is this happening?” You know, you had people that had the voucher and the messed up—just getting in the apartments, and then you want to cut up the program?” You know.

Lewis: [00:55:10] And this was… So the letter that you got, it was from the city, from the Department of Homeless Services?

Walles: I think so, yeah.

Lewis: Do you recall how much notice they gave you when you got the letter, when they were going to cut it off?

Walles: I don't even… I think they didn't give us much notices because I heard later on that a lot of people is going back and forth to landlord and tenant court. And that's when the Coalition of the Homeless came up with the lawsuit. I think they came up with a lawsuit about the whole Advantage—of why they're going to cut the program out. And so that's the reason why the Coalition got involved. And, you know, they had to slap a lawsuit about that to the city saying, “Why are you going to do this when you have tenants that are paying, and you want to get rid of the program?” Even though it doesn't matter how long the program is, you still shouldn't do that. You know what I’m saying? People are going back and forth to court to housing court, at that time.

Lewis: [00:56:17] Did they expect… If they cut the program, then were you supposed to just start paying the full rent?

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmm. And how realistic was that? Not just for you, but for the other folks you were talking to also?

Walles: Well we lived with it? It didn't come really until after the whole thing was over and Allan didn't have the money to pay it, which was true, he didn't. He didn't have nine-hundred and sixty-two [dollars] to pay. Yeah. The full rent was nine [hundred] sixty-two [dollars]. So DHS—HRA paid eight [hundred] ninety-two?

Lewis: [00:57:00] Hmmmm. So, they went from paying eight [hundred] ninety-two [dollars] every month, to saying, “Okay, we're not going to do that anymore. Y'all have to pay all of that?”

Walles: Yes. Unfortunately, I did go back and forth to court with my apartment, and thank God I did leave before the marshals came because it probably would have been tough for me and the fact that I had to start all over again. I’m like… It took me a minute to finally go back into the shelter because at first I was like, “Oh, I don't want to go. I just lost my apartment. So now I gotta go through this bureaucracy of being told what to do, what not to do.” I couldn't do it anymore, you know? So, but me and Allan decided to go back into the shelter. It took us like, two months. This is during Hurricane Sandy. So, we went back. We didn't go back into the system until after the hurricane.

Lewis: [00:58:10] And during this time, you're—Alexis is where?

Walles: At my mom’s.

Lewis: So how—how did this affect you?

Walles: A lot. A lot. Yeah, a lot.

Lewis: [00:58:31] I remember you being at Picture the Homeless a lot and going to meetings and going to homeless organizing academy trainings, and actions. So what, when you think back on it, what was—kind of what was your life like? You had a tremendous amount of stress, dealing with this—you finally get housing, and then they take away the subsidy. Right? But you're active with Picture the Homeless. What, kind of what—how do you think about that time in your life?

Walles: I think it's because, it's like I left, you know—I was going through so much. I felt that Picture the Homeless was my home, you know? I felt that despite the fact I was going through… I’ll never forget when I lost my apartment and I think—I forgot who I asked. I said—I don't know, I spoke to somebody about my situation, and I explained, “Well, you know I've become homeless. So is it poss…” I think I did ask permission to use the shower, because I asked. I forgot who I asked. I said, “Well, you know, I'm in a bad situation right now, and is it possible to use your shower? You know, it's been a long time.” They was like, “Oh yeah Maria! You could use it!” So… And I took advantage of using the shower and brushing my teeth and getting cleaned up. I know one time I came there real early in the morning, like, “Listen…”  I think—I forgot, it was one of the brothers, who was at the door, and I guess I got there like if a little before ten, and I think I was just—I just had a stressful night and I think I came running there and I was like, “I need to use the bathroom. I got to go, I got to go, I got to go.” I was doing the bathroom dance. I forgot the brother's name. Oh, he's—I think he was like the manager of the house?

Lewis: Mr. Jimmy!

Walles: Yeah. Jimmy. I guess once I did all the dancing and stuff and he looked at me, he's like, [laughs] “Okay, go ahead in.” “Oh, thank you.” So I took a shower and everything, and I felt better after that.

Lewis: [01:01:04] So you had mentioned—when you mentioned earlier, telling your mom that you were the only woman in a group, I know at Picture the Homeless we had a lot of men. [Smiles] Both staff was all men for many years except me and women, there weren't as many. A lot of women would come through, but not as many would stay. And so how was that for you as a woman? Member of Picture the Homeless.

Walles: I guess what made me stay even more at the time was—because I know at one point I was busy and going through a lot of stuff and, you know, I was accepted to… When I finally got accepted into the Adult Family [shelter] and stuff like that, because I—at one point I would come and stop coming and start coming. I think at one point, I guess what made me stay even longer was when—I don't know, my mom received a… Because I gave them my mom's number and so—I forgot the sister's name that used to work there. She called… And I forgot her name. She called me. She called my mom's house, and I answered the phone, and we spoke for a while. And I think she was feeling down and out and she was like, “Oh, you know, we're having this meeting.” And I said, “Well, I couldn't make it.” So, she said, “Well, we're having another meeting on Friday.” I think it was like an all-day meeting, and we'd get together and talk about certain things. And I told her, “Yeah! I'll come to that one, since it's in the morning.” And I went and I think Sam was there, and some other people were there I hadn't seen in a while. And I said, “Yeah, she just called, and she encouraged me to come.” And that made me stay a lot more longer because it wasn't for that phone call. It made me stay even longer at the organization. [Smiles]

Lewis: [01:03:21] I remember, maybe not long after that—you had mentioned the Solidarity Center before, and…

Walles: Yeah. The way [laughs]

Lewis: You spoke at a May Day rally.

Walles: Yeah! What happened was—what happened was, I saw the flier at the office. And, I was like, “Oh!” Because I guess at that time we was having meetings, we wasn't having meetings, we were having… It was a lot of confusion going on. So I said, “Okay, so I need to go to a meeting let me check these people out.” So, first thing I asked them I say, “Oh”, I said, “Can I come to your meeting?” They was like, “Yeah!” I said, “Do y'all pay people?” “No, we do all volunteer work.” I was like, “Oh, okay.” So, the first meeting I went to, they embraced me with open arms, and I told them, “I'm a part of Picture the Homeless.”

Walles: [01:04:21] [Laughs] So, that's how things started. So, then I started going there every week. It was something about them that encouraged me to go, and I think I ran PR. I was like, “Yeah, I'm part of the Solidarity Center, y'all need to go!” [Laughs] And everybody thought I was crazy and like, “I don't know about you, but I'm going!” And I think encouraged y’all about me. I said, 'Y'all need to go to this May Day. Come, come, come, come, come.” And so, I think Brandon, Brandon! Started to notice it, and he was like, “Alright, Maria, I'll go.” And so [laughs], so it was me and him we went to the Solidarity Center. And he's like, “Yeah he's from Picture the Homeless. He does civil rights. Oh, finally!” And that’s how the whole thing started with May Day because—I guess I was the one. [Laughs]

Lewis: [01:05:14] So you spoke about immigrant rights?

Walles: Yes. Immigrant rights and homelessness.

Lewis: Could you share a little bit, what connections you're making between immigration and immigrant rights and homelessness and why that was important to you?

Walles: Well, because, you know, when it comes down to immigration, a lot of immigrants are—some of them are homeless, some of them are not. And the bureaucracy they had to go through just to get here in the United States and what they had to go through to travel to get to the United States and… The bureaucracy—also, when it comes down to working, like in a restaurant, for example, and how they're not getting the wages that they deserve, and stuff. And to be honest with you, I didn't know about May Day. I knew about May Day, but I knew about May Day before I became homeless because someone told me about it. So, and then right after that, that's when I got involved with May Day, you know. Once I got involved with the Solidarity center and they said, “Oh, we do May Day.”

INTERRUPTION: The internet connection became even more unstable.

Lewis: [01:06:38] I mean, I remember you at those rallies there at Union Square, in case anybody's reading or listening to this. They're at Union Square in the middle, you know, in New York City. A sea of people, and a big stage and there's Maria Walles up there speaking and representing Picture the Homeless. And I think that one of the things that was really always very striking about you, Maria, is your willingness to jump in there and take on jobs, or take on tasks. So, you did Know Your Rights with the police trainings.

Walles: Yes.

Lewis: Could you—and I have a little list here of things. I was like, “Oh yeah! Maria, did this other thing, too.” So, I had to make like a list, because there was a lot. What were the Know Your Rights with the police trainings? How did you get involved with that, and what did you do?

Walles: Well, it was back—I would say like 2012 when Shaun was there, and I got into civil rights heavy. He's the one that encouraged me. That was the only reason why I decided to go, because he  just started there. And so I said, “Well, let me listen to what he's about.” Because he came from another organization at the time. And so I said, “Well, let me see what he's about. Let me feel his vibe. And whether you're going to be one of up or down situations?” [Smiles] And when he started speaking and started engaging, I was like, “Okay. He's a very powerful brother.” And so, I don't know there was something about him that just kept me motivated and just keep coming there! I was like, “I'm here!” “Oh, okay Maria.” “Alright, whatever you need!”

Walles: [01:08:40] And so, I think it's the way he brought to the table and the way he made civil rights the meeting to go to. And I mean, even if I couldn't make it, I'll be like, “Yo, I'm here. I'm sorry I couldn't make it. I'm here.” You know, it was it was the way he wanted you to come to the meeting weekly—every week [claps hands for emphasis]. Every week. Every week, you know, sit there, and hear him talking, talk about things.

Walles: [01:09:10] Even though sometimes it'd be frustrating if he didn't because there was times when, “Oh people may not want to listen to me.” And then after a while, I had this look on my face. I’m like, “I don't know if they want to hear about this.” He’s like, “Yeah! Go ahead!” “All right.” Then when I brought up the topic. “Oh! Oh. I like that, Maria.” I'm like, “Oh, okay.” Because, you know, there'll be times when, you know, you're in a room full of brothers, and it wasn't really too many women. And then it's like, okay, the battle of the genders. Let's just fight this out, duke it out. And it was a lot! Because you know, I was duking it out, but I did it with his encouragement and, you know, he was very, very supportive of, you know, of doing work with him and stuff like that. And—and I felt like he really gave me that push. And besides Shaun, I think once y'all started the Homeless Organizing Academy and having those weekly classes made me want to come even more and more and more and get involved, you know? I mean, it was a fight to the finish, but we did it, you know. And I think what hurt me the most was when they discontinued that program and, to be honest with you, I felt like it was kind of shady [laughs] and the way it ended and the way how—not going to mention this person’s name and how the way things was turned out. [Chups sounds]

Walles: [01:10:52] And the brother that was there that did housing, what's the brother's name?

Lewis: Adrian.

Walles: Adrian. Yeah. If it wasn't for Adrian… That's another brother that I was able to talk to and communicate with. And he understood how I felt, because one day we was on the train and we started talking and that's how I was able to talk to him. Because I said, “Well, let me try to talk to him when he's not working, when he's not going to school.” And let me just feel him more out and see what he's going through. And we started having deep conversations and stuff like that, and that made me become even more tighter with him. And then when he said he was leaving, that broke my heart! And so, when I had heard he was leaving I was like, “Aw shit.” And I think—because he, because I know Allan and him was tight and, and he spoke to my mom and you know it was that you know, you had that one person and the organization—that was there for you no matter what. And you know, it… And he was leaving because he was going to school because I guess balancing work and school was too much for him. And that's what he told me. And I was like, “Oh, okay. All right, and...” You know, I guess it was his decision, you know— “I better concentrate on my education.” You know, because if he had overflowed, or… I guess when you're doing—because that's how I'm feeling now. When you’re going to school, I don't care if you go to school part-time or full-time. It could be an overload on you. And I'm going through that myself, [smiles] even though the semester is winding down, you know? Only taking two classes a week. [Laughs] It still could be an overload.

Lewis: [01:12:45] So, with Adrian, you worked with him on the vacant property count?

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: And that was during the time that we were doing the citywide vacant property count…

Walles: Yes.

Lewis: And wrote the report Banking on Vacancy. And so what are some of the—what are some of the roles that you took on with the vacant property count? What kinds of things did you do?

Walles: Oh well, besides going to the Dilan’s office? [Laughs]

Lewis: Yeah, share like all the stuff we did.

Walles: Doing a sleep out [laughs] there and just sleeping in front of his—in his community and thank God nobody harassed us. I’ll never forget that night. It did rain that night… Slept out there, right there in Cypress hills.

Lewis: So, Eric Dilan was the chair of the Housing Committee of the City Council.

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: [01:13:56] And why did Picture the Homeless sleep in front of his office, in his district?

Walles: Because he wasn't supportive of the bill.

Lewis: Hmmm. And what—describe the sleepout for people that weren't there? What was it like? What did we do?

Walles: Well, we stopped in front of his office. But before that, we had a meeting. We spoke about, the action—it was very peaceful. We was there because he didn't want to support the bill. “We approached you about it. We tried to talk to you, and it seemed like you didn't want to listen.” So, we decided—camp out in front of your office and let the community know what he's doing! And we informed the community, and the community was very supportive of it. They were so supportive that they made sure that we got fed, too. So, [laughs] yeah. And, and the next day, staff did come, and we tried to talk to them, and I think towards the end they was like—I think I did tell somebody… They didn't even want to talk to us even though we knocked at his door. We’re like, “Let us in. We just want to talk to you. Let's compromise.” I was like, even he, he wouldn't even talk to a female either… [Laughs] You know, so it didn't matter.

Lewis: So where—how many people more or less? Like was this just Picture the Homeless people? Was it ally groups like…

Walles: Yes! Allies did come.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmm.

Walles: Some allies did come. They couldn't stay. But some of them did come.

Lewis: [01:15:43] When you started talking about it, you were laughing and smiling, so did—I guess you have happy memories of it? What was it about it that brought that smile to your face?

Walles: Just knowing the fact is that we did what we had to do. You know, because, you know, you try to be nice about it, but then after a while, sometimes you have to do, you know—we escalated it, but we did it in a nice way. [Smiles] “We was just in front of your office, and you didn't want to talk to us, so we slept at your district office. Right by the J train. [Laughs]

Lewis: [01:16:29] There's another action that I remember you bringing a lot of joy to a vacant lot takeover that Picture the Homeless did and converted part of it to a fashion show.

Walles: Oh, yeah!

Lewis: What was up with that? Why was—what was that? [Smiles]

Walles: It was—we took it on because it was just sitting there and not being utilized! So, of course, you’re going to take something that don't belong to you—sorry! And you wasn't utilizing it. It's our land. Community Land Trust. It was before Community Land Trust. You know, it was sitting there, not being… You know, they wasn't building no school. It wasn't going to be no restaurant. It was just sitting there and sitting—taking up city blocks. They could have used that lot as a community… It could've been a community garden if the owner said, “No, we don't want nobody.” Well, make it into a community garden. He didn't want to do that! And that's when the cops came in, “Oh, y'all got to be off the premises. Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah.” And that's when that arrest happened.

Lewis: [01:17:42] Why do you think it's important to do these kinds of public actions where people sleep on the sidewalk or people take over vacant space? Why is it important to do that?

Walles: It's important—for me, you know, in the beginning, you try to be nice about it, “All right.” You know, you do the—you do the phone call. “Okay.” We set the meeting. “All right.” It's still the same. Nothing's getting done. So, of course, we're going to sit there and talk about, “Oh, this is our idea. This is what we're going to do!” And I feel like, “We had the meetings with you. We talked to you in person. We talked over the phone. We made—you know, we did have, we did ask, we did, you know—listen to what you had to say. All right? We gave you enough time.” But after a while, it was getting kind of boring. “All right, You're not going to do nothing? All right. This is what's going to happen. Either you see our faces, or you do it as we ask you to do.”

Walles: [01:18:49] I’m sorry about the horn. [Laughs]

Lewis: This is New York. You know, I have a whole bunch of interviews with the sirens in the background, and then, you know, it sounds like I'm in a hospital. [Laughs] And then my neighbor used to have a little dog that every time I did an interview, there's the dog yapping for part of it. So.

Walles: Oh.

Lewis: We're in New York, so there's noise.

Walles: [Laughs]

Lewis: [01:19:21] You know, there's so many different things that you're involved with Maria. You mentioned Community Land Trusts just now. And I remember you were doing surveys in buildings. Could you share what that was about?

Walles: A lot of convincing. A lot of convincing, A lot of smiles. A lot of… I felt like doing that to encourage people... I think what I said to them was, “Well, you know, I'm here to do the surveys.” And when I explained to them what—I guess it was the consequences that came out of it? That's when they was like, “Oh, I'm going to do the survey.” Because when I would tell them the bad stuff, “Oh, hell no. I'll do the survey.”

Lewis: [01:20:19] What were you telling people?

Walles: I would say, “Oh, well, you know, your rent may go up.” [Laughs] I guess once I said, your rent may go up, or—you know, the landlords going to take control of your building, is going to take your apartment.” That's when they decided to do the survey. You know, I wasn't… I was telling them the truth! Basically, I was being—I'm like, “Listen, it's up to you.” You know? I would tell them, “Look the survey won't take long. Just give me fifteen minutes—ten, fifteen minutes of your time.” And sometimes we would, we would go to people's apartments and do the surveys out there in the winter. Out there in the winter. Cold. You know, sometimes people wouldn't be home. But we took a chance at doing it!

Lewis: [01:21:21] And what were these surveys for?

Walles: It was dealing with Community Land Trust. It was dealing with the buildings. And how, yeah. And how their income would be affected, how they were spending their money, how they would feel about if their—if their apartment gets changed. What was their feeling about it? Would you want to come to Picture the Homeless to talk about it?

Lewis: So, it was kind of outreach and then…

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: Where—where were these buildings at that you were doing the surveys?

Walles: It was mostly in East Harlem. It wasn't that far from the office.

Lewis: Okay. So this was when the office had moved to 126th Street?

Walles: Yeah. Well, in the beginning. First, it was—it was still in the Bronx. And then once we got to 126th Street it was easy. Even though it was cold! But we did it. [Smiles]

Lewis: [01:22:28] Are there—are there things that you did with Picture the Homeless that, that surprised you or that you thought you would never do?

Walles: Work with the organization. [Laughs] Work with the organization.

Lewis: What do you mean by that?

Walles: That I had the opportunity to work doing a—doing an internship, during the six... It was like six to… Six months? Six months plus of doing outreach. I was an outreach worker, so. [Smiles]

Lewis: Who did you work with when you were doing outreach in the organization?

Walles: I was working with Shaun, Nikita, and Ryan.

Lewis: Okay. And then did you get training as an intern?

Walles: Yes! Yes, I did. I did get training. They trained us for a couple of weeks, and he would come, go out with us to like to the Concourse, to the shops. We would try to get members, get people out to Picture the Homeless. We went to shelters. I remember even going to Wards Island! We were going on Wards island, and—and did a lot of outreach. We went to HRA. We went to the courts, criminal court—and family court. Well, I went to family court. There was times, you know, we had to separate. And I did both! But when I went to—and when I went to—I went to housing court. I was lucky to get some people from housing court.

Lewis: [01:24:19] And what was it like for you to do that outreach work?

Walles: I felt… I felt like that's the type of work I wanted to do; you know. Even though prior to that, I did have a lot, you know, you did… Besides Community Voices Heard, they did train me, too. And, but with the help—with a lot of—most of the training from Picture the Homeless, you know, even before I got paid, you know, the volunteers, the work that was I doing and doing outreach, encouraging people to come to Picture the Homeless. Because I remember, you know, you know, we did… We was trying to have new members come to Picture the Homeless and I think one time we went to Harlem, and we all got together, and we spent the whole day out in Harlem trying to get new members to come to the office in the Bronx. And it was a lot, but we did it!

Lewis: [01:25:23] And were—do you feel like you were successful at getting people to come to the office?

Walles: I would say, yeah. Yes. I felt like—especially what we was doing in the six months when we did that, when we did—when I did the internship for six months. Yeah, six months or better. I'd say seven, eight months. I felt like I was getting better at the work I was doing. I felt like it was encouraging, you know. Even after the program ended, I still wanted people to come to Picture the Homeless. You know, I felt that, you know—all the training that I had through Picture the Homeless had helped me out a lot to branch out and, you know, with other organizations like VOCAL-NY, like the Solidarity Center, Neighbors Together, you know—all the other organizations that—Housing Justice for All, Safety Net, you know… With the COC, the New York City Continuum of Care, I'm part of that—people with lived experience. So, I guess with being involved with all those different groups and it made me more motivated. And you know, theater is dealing with the arts, so it's like maybe through—it made me do a lot more advocacy work and now I'm doing community organizing through City College, doing the Fellowship. Which I finally [laughs] got the opportunity to do because I did apply for those type of fellowships and doors been slammed in my face. And so finally this came, and I got accepted—almost didn't want to do it, but I was like… You know, Hilary encouraged me, and I was like, “Okay, I’ll do just a few.” And so… [Laughs], I'm just being honest. So, yeah.

Lewis: [01:27:27] It sounds like you—you've mentioned a couple different people that were very encouraging to you, that actually helped you get involved. So you mentioned Shaun being very encouraging. You mentioned Adrian. You mentioned

Walles: Ryan too! [Laughs] Ryan, too. He was—with Ryan, he was very, very supportive when it came down to me and Allan and we was going through the [inaudible] I had—when I had to have—a situation dealing with… I had to spend a couple of days away from the shelter and I had to be with my mom, taking care of my daughter at the time, and DHS was giving me a hard time. And so Ryan was very, very supportive of me with that whole situation. And you helped me out with that situation. And Shaun, and—forgot the sisters name—she was very supportive. Marie. Marie. Marie. [Laughs] Marie, yeah. You know, she was a handful, but she was very, very supportive of the whole situation I was going through. You know, you know, the stress, the strain at that time of just saying, “Hey!”  You know, my family wanted to go on a trip and—and the bureaucracy I have to go through, you know?

Lewis: [01:29:14] And this was for you to be able to stay with your own daughter, right?

Walles: Yes! Yes. And I went from staying in the Bronx to Parkview and just—and I was able to be closer to my daughter at that time.

Lewis: I remember that. Are there some… Well, I want to go back a little bit if you, if you want to share—you mentioned the HOA ending, the Homeless Organizing Academy ending.

Walles: Oh! I also—I just want to mention somebody else, Jenny. Jenny.

Lewis: Yeah.

Walles: [01:29:50] Jenny was always very supportive, especially after Allan passed away. When, when Allan passed away—and Nikita. I'm going to say that, too. It took a toll. You know, I guess it was a shocker that after Allan passed away how everybody was like, “Oh.” You know, and I remember Nikita and Allan when they saw each other, because they didn't see each other for a while. This was like back in 2015, they finally saw each other, and it was like… And that particular day I said, “That's all I wanted y'all to do. Just to see each other.” You know, because he would never come by the office. But he always spoke on the phone. And that's how the whole “Free to Pee” started. [Laughs] Because Allan was—I would speak to Allan and I said, “Okay, speak to Nikita.” And he didn't have—he didn't even have no access to a bathroom! And that's how the whole campaign started.

Lewis: [01:30:55] I remember Allan. I remember seeing Allan after you all, you know, after the first time you all were coming to the Bronx. I remember two—Allan twice. One time, we were at a May Day rally, and Allan brought us waters. Little bottles of waters? He was

Walles: Yes

Lewis: He was selling water or something?

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: And he had a very—Allan had a very kind, kind of face and vibe. And he came up with this water and asked us if we wanted water to drink. Which was—he just came like, I don't know if he was there the whole time, but he was working. And then another time when we did a housewarming party for DeBoRah, and you and Allan came.

Walles: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, he—because I told Allan about it and he’s like, “Oh yeah, sure, I'll come. I'll come.” But I know there was another action that he came through because his job was right there. When Rob got arrested and we went to the precinct and his job was right on that block. And that's when he brought some stuff from… I said, “Oh, I got sodas, I got juices, I got...” Everybody’s like, “Yeah…” And everybody grabbed the water. I said, “See? You don't got to worry about paying anything. You could ask him for anything.” [Laughs] He said, “Yeah, I’ll bring it to y’all!” And that's what he did.

Lewis: [01:32:25] You know, a lot of the times that we had parties, right? So, the housewarming party, or parties in the office... Or, we would go sometimes, we—you and I went to a North Star Fund Gala. But you, you were always somebody that even going through all the things you were going through, were kind of joyful and would get into the life of the party kind of vibe. And how important was it, do you think, that we had those kinds of events? What did those—what did those fun times mean to you?

Walles: Like, for example, when I went to the North Star, my first time ever going to North Star Gala. I really enjoyed myself. I think we went like, through you, I think it was like couple of— 2014, 2015, I remember going 2014, ‘15 and I think I went ‘16. Yeah, I went in 2016 and I think 2017, I went. I went, and that's when Theatre [Theatre of the Oppressed] got invited. And Theatre got invited to North Star and they was shocked to see me. “Well, how did you get…” “I'm through Picture the Homeless.” “Oh!” [Laughs] So when I asked them, “Well, how did you get here?” “Oh, they just invited us they gave us tickets.” I was like, “Oh!”

Walles: So, it was like you got the opportunity to meet other organizations or people that you haven't seen at the different organizations that are our allies, and stuff like that. And I felt that we got a chance to meet everybody.

Walles: [01:34:22] We got a chance to enjoy ourselves. You know, the party, the gala was in the springtime when the weather was nice. You didn't have to wear a—you just wore a jacket and just enjoyed the air and just enjoyed ourselves. I mean, I went to it in 2018, I went to it? 2018—did I go in 2019? I don't even remember going in 2019, but I remember going into 20—2018. 2018, I think 2018. Yeah, 2018. Because I remember, me and Charmel went together. And it was another sister that went there, and I had a lot of fun. [Laughs] That particular one I had a lot of fun. That particular one, I had a lot of fun, but I had a lot of fun at all of them. But I think 2018 was a lot of fun. Maybe cause I was just, you know, after Allan passed away and stuff like that and, you know—and just having a nice time and enjoying ourselves and, you know, taking those long walks back to the train station and, you know, the weather was nice, and it did get cool at night, but I didn't care. It's—you know, we’re still enjoying ourselves. And you got a chance to meet people, exchange business cards—networking. That's what I was calling it. Networking. Yes, gala! But you still networking. [Laughs]

Lewis: [01:35:54] What are—if you had some, some memories of Picture the Homeless and your work there that you did, what do you think… What are some of the things that you think really made a difference in the city? Because Picture the Homeless was there?

Walles: I guess like going to different actions, getting involved with October 22nd Coalition, getting a chance to know who they were, they are. And just going to the rallies, meetings, you know, the after—the afterparties and stuff like that. And getting a chance to know other coalitions, too. I felt like I did get the opportunity, like I said, October 22nd... And just to get to know them a lot and going to their, and I—starting to go into the meetings on a weekly basis and just be like—because I was like the point person going to these meetings, and stuff like that. And I think that, another incident happened with me going [smiles] to—I’ll never forget this—going to the meetings for Women's History Month. Being the point person, [laughs] because I was the only one going. Being the point person, going to these—every weekend meetings, every Sunday! It was not every Sunday—every Saturday, it was having the meetings. I would go. If it wasn't Saturday, it was Sunday... Made an effort to go, giving it back to the group, letting them know. Finally, people came to the meeting—came to the, to an action or a hearing. Because I was the only one going! Because, you know, a lot of things did change, so I'd end up going. [Laughs] Or, if they couldn’t make it, we'd have a meeting, you know? “Okay, you couldn't make it. Okay, let's talk about it.” You know, because people had to work and stuff like that.

Lewis: [01:38:06] A lot of the things that you mentioned really have to do also with working with other groups—October 22nd or the International Working Women's Day, the Solidarity Center. And why was it important for a homeless group to be in all these different spaces?

Walles: Because you never know what a person's going through. You don't know if that person is homeless or not. I felt like with Picture the Homeless if… They didn't know who Picture the Homeless was until we mentioned about it. Or they see us on the website, or they saw us at an action. “Oh, y'all Picture the Homeless? Oh, yeah. I heard so much about you. I want you to come to my meeting.” And, da-da-da. I'd be like, “Okay, I'll let them know.” And of course, we would show up, you know. I felt that with these organizations, they need to know, “Well, hey, you know, you're one paycheck away from becoming homeless.” Especially, you know, men and women—men, single fathers, single—single women with their kids, you know. You know, you don't know what he's going through.

Walles: [01:39:26] You know, especially like, for example, like Andres. When he brought his son into the organization, he was a single dad. It's hard to find that. When it comes down to single fathers, because way before for Andres—I knew this one, brother. We went through the EAU together and he was a single dad, and he had his—I think his daughter at the time was like eleven? So, the bureaucracy of him taking his daughter and going through the whole system and—and dealing with the frustration. Being mad, you know, they was giving single fathers a hard time, and I saw it with my own eyes! They was giving single fathers a hard way to go. And I would just shake my head. I'd be like—that's sad! Because you don't know what happened to the—to their mom. You know? You don't know. And so, the mother said, “Hey, take care of your child. Do what you got to do.” And things do happen! You don't know what that single father had to go through with their son, with their daughter, with their children. And so you're like, “Oh.” And I heard the horrors stories, “Hey, they’re giving me a hard way to go Maria. And this is what they do. They don't even want to give you this. They don't even want to give you that.” I'm like, “Wow”. You know? I thought it was bad for me and Allan as a couple, because you didn’t really see too many couples in there. Yeah, you saw it and you didn't. It was hard. Until you really think about it, you know, you did see the couples and you didn't, you know?

Lewis: [01:41:08] Thinking about you—you mentioned Ryan and you being the point person for like the International Working Women's Day, and going to a lot of October 22nd and all kinds of meetings that you used to go to. It was often you or another member of Picture the Homeless representing the organization. It wasn't always staff doing this. There weren't enough staff and Picture the Homeless was involved in a lot of things and members would be the best—in the best position to represent the group.

Lewis: [01:41:41] And I remember one time we got a—Ryan got a text from a woman who was living in a building on Intervale Avenue in the Bronx. And we were in a staff meeting, I think, and it was when the housing campaign was working on the cluster site situation and organizing with people, with families living in buildings in terrible conditions that the city

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: was renting out parts of, as shelters. And so Ryan gets this call, we're in a—and a text it had a—the Department of Homeless Services had given a letter to all the women, and it was mostly women and children in this building on Intervale, that they had to move within twenty-four hours.

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: And he couldn't go. And you and Arvernetta were like, “We're on it.” And you and Arvernetta went over to the building. Do you—could you tell that story?

Walles: We had to go to the building, and we did—we did an action! Matter of fact we did an action there, and we was out there for a couple of hours. “Because, you didn't give these women no notification. You only gave them twenty-four hours…” And we was able to stop the transfer, with them—because we was able to see the city, we was able to get a meeting with the city council, the city council in that district. We was able to get a meeting and we was able to talk to them and stuff like that, and they put it on a note saying that men and women are not getting a transfer. One sister almost lost her job. I remember one young lady said she was about to do a job interview and she thought she was able to do it. It put a lot of stress and strain on her. You know, so she was able… Some of them was able to stay. Some of them was able to get vouchers. They was able to get the vouchers and they was able to move out. Some of them did eventually was able to move, and get their apartments and stuff like that.

Lewis: [01:43:55] Another action that the housing campaign did around the cluster sites was we went to a building and then marched to the not-for-profit, Aguila, that was

Walles: Oh, yeah!

Lewis: supposedly providing case management to homeless families that were in this—living in apartment buildings, that were also really substandard. Could you talk about that work and what that was about?

Walles: Oh, yeah! That's when I went inside the building, I was crying my—yeah! [Laughs] I went inside. I remember just going… I think I was, I would say, “Let me go inside. Let me go inside.” And, I guess that's when, it was before I got involved with Theatre of the Oppressed. And I think I was—I think I had—I mentally, physically got it, got into it. I guess I got into my character? And [laughs] I was physically sad. I was crying. I mean I was literally crying, you know, to the security guard. I was like, “No, I need help. They didn't. Want to help me. Ah-ah-ah! Ah-ah-ah!” Oh yeah. I mean, I was literally crying. I guess the security guard was like… I was like, “Oh! Nobody is going to want to help me. I want services and you're not helping me! Ah-ah-ah! Ah-ah-ah!” I was crying. And I think you was trying to console me, [laughs] I think you was consoling me, I was like, “No, it's not fair! Nobody wants to help me!” And you was trying to calm me down and stuff like that. And the security guy was like, “Okay.” I guess he was showing a lot of sympathy, and stuff like that. “Y’all don't want to help people out!” [Smiles] The security guard was sympathizing. [Laughs]

Lewis: [01:45:45] What were we trying to do with that action? What was the point of that?

Walles: [Pause] I guess the whole purpose of—of us going there was because of the—what they, what they was doing to, to… I think because of what they was doing to people and how the way they was treating them. And, I think that was the reason why we did it was the way they was, how they was treating the families and how they was treating—I guess, the way they was treating their clients and stuff. And because they was making promises and they wasn't making their promises. Or, or was it because of… I'm not sure. But it was, guess it was—I guess it was the way they was treating their clients and stuff. It's been so long.

Lewis: [01:46:45] I know some of these things happened a long time ago. You mentioned getting into your into—into your character and I also know you—another action we had, you did some spoken word at Brook Park. We had kind of an open mic thing, and you did some of that, some of the other types of things that you did in different actions, where you were on the tactical team… Are there actions, to you—that you felt either—that you felt were really powerful, that you would like to share or describe?

Walles: I think it was [pause] as far as doing the work, was like 2018 when I got heavily involved in doing the work, when I started getting more involved with Theatre of the Oppressed NYC… When I started—when they started the Women's History Month and going to the weekly meetings, Saturday meetings. As being, as part of being a tactical team and just talking about what we're going to do, where we're going to march. Setting up events, where I was able to just—what’s that word? My schedule of, “Okay, I see my daughter and I have this early part of the day…: So, I would see my daughter on the Sunday nights. You know, and spend a couple hours with her, with my mom, and—but, was able to do these actions and go to meetings and be involved with Theatre and, you know—talk to my mom about, you know, going to actions. But more or less… Also, one time I went to a after work part—it was a Sunday, so it was like a brunch [slash], it was like a brunch [slash] afterparty. And then talk about Picture the Homeless, talk about Theatre of the Oppressed, talk about a lot of the work I was doing.

Walles: [01:49:02] And—and, I think that's when I felt like a lot of things was changing, as far as being—working, and doing advocacy work. When I started seeing opportunities come knocking at my door, you know? And—and, I already know Allan would have been very proud of me, you know? And to see me doing the type of work I'm doing and then, you know, did my performance last night. I already know in spirit; he would've been even more thrilling because I wound up getting flowers! And you know, and everybody noticed some growing and they seen blossoming in me [smiles] and—and noticing that, “Hey, you know, you're not the same person that you used to be.” I'm like… You know? You know, I speak—speak my mind now. You know, be at meetings and sometimes just storm out of meetings because I see that you ain't doing things right, “All right, bye.” You know, people saw that in me. They’re like, “I better not mess with Maria.” And, you know, try to whine and complain, so I could get things done, or try to get my way or just smile or blink my eyes. “We listened to what you had to say…” You know, try to give them encouraging words, so that way, “Just give us a chance and an opportunity.”

Walles: [01:50:47] And, you know, I feel like… Also another thing. Nikita was, in my opinion, was very important in this too, because he also had encouraged me to do a lot of things, too, you know. Especially when it came down to Theatre, because he's like, “Oh, I see you're in Theatre, and da-da-this and da-da-da…” Because, I remember when we—we did something, we was invited to a little party, to a get together and he met one of the people that work in Theatre, Becca. And they started talking and stuff like that. And he said, “Yeah. Maria talks about Theatre of the Oppressed all the time.” And they started talking and—you know, I know Theatre of the Oppressed was doing a lot of work with Picture the Homeless, too. And yeah! You know, so—you know, what's that word? Collaboration and stuff like that. And I just felt that—you know, before he [Nikita] passed away, I remember him talking to me. He's like, “Yeah, Maria, I see you doing a lot. And I see that you're—you're good at your work.” I know at one time, I don't know. Theatre was giving me job opportunities and so I, you know, I wasn't around the office that much and I'm like, “Listen, if you don't see me, you know where I'm at. I'm with Theatre. I'm working. I'm not sitting here. I got to do what I got to do, to take care of my kid.” [Laughs] You know? You know, because Theater gave me the opportunity and I felt like the job was there and, you know… “I mean, better use me now before Theatre gets busy! Take advantage of me—once Theatre started opening—bye! You see me when you see me.”

Lewis: [01:52:42] Are there any final things that you want to share about why Picture the Homeless is important?

Walles: For me, Picture the Homeless gave me the opportunity to know, besides working with Community Voices Heard and United Federation of Teachers. [Pause] You know, homeless doesn't discriminate. It could be somebody working every day, Monday through Friday, but you’re still homeless because you don't make enough money to pay your rent, but you don't make enough money to take care of your child. I felt like Picture the Homeless is the organization that made me feel comfortable, as far as the environment was concerned. You know, at—when y'all was in the Bronx, I did go to the one in Harlem, but I wasn't homeless at the time. But when I went to the one in the Bronx, it was homey because [laughs] you had took advantage of, “Oh, this is a home. Okay.” “Well, this is our office space.” So, we had that whole space for a very, very long time. And when we moved to Harlem—nice office space, but we had a backyard. Oh, okay! We could hold get togethers, and stuff like that. You know, weather's changing—or you just need some air. Just go to the backyard and talk, you know, because that's your home away from home. You could just pace back and forth because I used… That was my favorite spot, was that backyard at 126th Street. [Smiles] It was that backyard, that whole little get together space. You know, I call that the backyard. The backyard. That's what I'm going to call it, the backyard.

Walles: [01:54:42] But yeah, and the work that we did and the—the collaboration we did with the other coalition's and stuff… Even in my opinion, throughout the pandemic. People… You know, I heard about like—for example, I heard about Neighbors Together… Didn’t hear about it—until the pandemic. Yeah, like organizations like Neighbors Together, finally got involved with them, would go to their meetings and stuff like that, throughout the pandemic. You know, I-I-I… In my opinion, I did a lot! I did a lot, that's how I got accepted to the program [laughs] because John and Hillary, especially John, “Yes, you did a lot Maria. Yes. That's why you're in the program. I saw you working out there. You've been out there.” It's like, “Oh, okay.” [Laughs]

Walles: [01:55:36] So, I just felt that even throughout the pandemic, when we was able to have meetings and stuff like that and, you know, with other organizations. And they was able to talk and vamp and—you know, even—even one with the other organizations, with other organizations, we have members meetings. We would talk and we—you know, and talk about how we feel and stuff like that. Theatre did the same thing, too. How we would vamp and just talk about how we felt and stuff like that and—you know, because after a while everybody was getting zoomed out.

Walles: [01:56:23] You know, when the whole George Floyd situation happened. That's when everybody and their mama came out, [smiles] you know. I know I came—I don't know. It was like—I think Nikita was like, “You better go out, Maria! You better just go.” And that's what I did. [Smiles] And—and, that when I saw Charmel, and we got together, and we hung out for a couple of hours. And I called my mom, and she was like, “Yeah, I went to march. They was coming in the area, marching and stuff.” And, you know, it—it, it was a lot. But at least we try to stay in contact with people.

Walles: [01:57:01] We was having those coalition meetings and we would get together outside, which was good to have and, you know, to see each other and do those weekly calls, weekly meetings and just—you know, Stop the Sweeps. I miss those meetings [smiles] because Marcus came to the meetings, came to see the play. He came. He got a haircut now. Yeah. I was happy to see him. You know, it's like I know a lot of things have changed, but I just felt throughout the pandemic, we had each other, and we was able to, you know… Even when we started going back out and having meetings outside at Bryant Park, that was my favorite spot, Bryant Park. And we was able to talk sit down and even after the meeting was over we still was able to hang out until they told us to get the hell out the park. [Laughs] You know? And the trains was running ‘til one o’clock in the morning. You know.

Lewis: [01:58:03] You know, I really appreciate you making the time for this, Maria.

Walles: It's two hours?!

Lewis: Almost, yeah. Look, it's eight, eight-twenty.

Walles: Oh, my God!

Lewis: We could probably go on and talk all night. And like I said, if you think of things after this call that you want to include, then we can do this again. You were with Picture the Homeless for a long time.

Walles: Yeah. 2007. [Laughs]

Lewis: Yeah. So, everything is not going to be totally covered in two hours, okay? And so I want you to know that.

Walles: You mean two and a half. [Laughs]

Lewis: You can call me, text me, whatever. If there's some things that pop into your head that you want to include. I'll reach out to you after the holidays about your transcript. So, maybe at that time when you read it, you might say, “Oh yeah, I want to add this in here.” And that’s—I'll be happy to do that. Okay?

Walles: Okay. Oh, yeah! I would like to, you know, have this dedication for—you know, Allan. You know for this—Allan, yeah. And, you know—and my dad. And my dad. So, Allan, my dad and I can't leave out Nikita. He was my big brother.

Lewis: [01:59:38] Yeah. And you know, I'll just say something. When I think about you, one of the things I think about is how, how—just how nice you are. Like, you—when we met up last year and you had presents for Nikita's daughter's, Christmas presents.

Walles: Yeah.

Lewis: You know that—not only is it that you remember people reaching out and being nice with you at Picture the Homeless, but you also show that same kind of love, and generosity to other people.

Walles: Yeah? Thank you.

Lewis: And I think that's something really special about you. And, you know, I just want you to know that. That—I know I'm not the only one that sees that or notices it, but it's really nice.

Walles: Yeah. Thank you.

Lewis: Yeah.

Walles: I appreciate that.

Lewis: All right. Well, I love you, Maria. Take care.

Walles: Alright, call me if you need anything. [Laughs]

Lewis: I promise. Love you.

Walles: Bye.