Marcus Moore (Interview 1)

Lewis: [00:00:00] [Smiling] All right, so my name is Lynn Lewis, and I’m here with—

Moore: Marcus Moore.

Lewis: And it is November 13th, in the afternoon and this is the first of a series of interviews with Marcus Moore, a longtime leader of Picture the Homeless. Marcus how are you today?

Moore: I'm pretty good. I can't complain, I'm humble.

Lewis: Nice. Marcus tell me about yourself.

Moore: [00:00:33] Okay. Well, I'm from Brooklyn New York and I was raised in Bergen County, New Jersey. You know, normally I don't tell people too much about that [smiling] because they want to go into—you know, a lot of, history, but… I was—I'm from Brooklyn, but I was raised in Bergen County, New Jersey and I moved back to New York after attending one year of college. Yeah, so…

Lewis: [00:01:14] And we were just talking—you're the only son of how many children?

Moore: So I have—I have a lot of sisters. And my sisters, they are like scattered out around the country and whatnot. So I love my sisters. Yeah. So, there's not too much, you know, that they won't give me if they can give it to me. You know, they always—you know, they always want to make sure that I'm okay and whatnot, so… You know, between my mother and my sisters I used to get smacked so many times I didn't really know if I was coming or going, you know… But, yes. [Smiling]

Lewis: [00:01:52] When you were growing up, who were some major influences?

Moore: Wow. I would have to say… I would have to say, my mother. The reason why I would say my mother, because… My mother, she would always—she was… When you’re young, and you know—I lived in the family house in the brownstone in Bed-Stuy, so, I had my uncles and people like that. But my mother of course, I was always around a lot of the time. But, I would definitely have the say my mother. She taught me a lot of stuff early on—in the beginning of my childhood development. Yes, you know…

Moore: [00:02:43] And so, one of the things I can remember my mother always saying, that I just didn't understand as a little boy growing up in my early years of Brooklyn was—she used to say stuff like… And she used to be really mad and frustrated… I couldn't understand, you know—what was going on with this woman! I can always remember her saying, “Look at this building. Somebody could be living in there.” I was a little guy, but I can remember this dialogue with her for years! It just used to just get on her nerves. And so—that was very interesting. [Smiles]

Lewis: [00:03:26] What was Bed-Stuy like at that time?

Moore: [00:03:29] Oh boy. So, I would have to say that it was a time where people sat on the stoop, and sometimes… You know, the neighbors knew each other, you know? People would, you know—I would have to say, talked to one another and just be a little bit more friendly, and people kind of like, knew each other. People kind of like—cared about what was going on you know, in places and spaces. It wasn't all like this isolation where, you know, [imitates voices] “I just mind my business. I don't care about that, you know—as long as I'm okay—my family… It's all good.” It wasn't really nothing—it wasn't like that. It was like, if there was an altercation going on, on the block, around the corner—people come to inquire and check out, and ask questions… You know?

Lewis: [00:04:29] Did you have other family living around besides here your immediate family?

Moore: [00:04:35] Of course! I had my cousins in Flatbush. I had my uncle, he lived in Flatbush with his family. I also had family in Bushwick—so I had family all over Brooklyn. Brooklyn was home. Brooklyn was… You know, you could… if I go to Flatbush I had family. If I go to Crown Heights, you know, I had family, and it’s still sort of, kind of like that today. You know, even though some of the older siblings have moved on, there’s still some sprinkles of us still scattered around the borough, and whatnot, so… It’s positive. I can still… You know, when I go through Brooklyn, I still feel some kind of connection, some kind of umbilical cord or something like that, to these blocks and neighborhoods—even though things have changed, as far as the way it looks now.

Lewis: [00:05:35] Tell me more about that. How has it changed?

Moore: Well, I see a lot of cafes now where people could just go and sit down, you know—and eat inside, outside, standing up, drinking beers… I see [pause] a different crowd of people these days in Bed-Stuy—that I would never see growing up, you know—in Bed-Stuy, in those days. I also see how brownstones are now townhouses. You know, back then, a brownstone was a brownstone. You know—townhouse, that wasn't… That was… you know, we couldn't understand that. You know, these days sometimes when you go through the blocks you see a townhouse for sale, and to me that's a brownstone. That's a brownstone.

Moore: [00:06:37] There you see these other, you see these other buildings, that they kind of made into a brownstone. They have these materials they put over the brick and they call it a brownstone—a new form of brownstone. You know, it's nothing like that original brick that Brooklyn is known for throughout out the five boroughs. You know, you have Manhattan, different places in Harlem, and they got that brick, that brownstone. But it's nothing like Brooklyn. When you come to Brooklyn and you come to these legendary neighborhoods and you see that, that brownstone, you just—and you see a lot of it—that's Brooklyn!

Lewis: Nice.

Lewis: And so, how old were you when you guys moved to New Jersey?

Moore: [00:07:23] So, I was a tall guy, and it seems like I must have been a tall guy coming out the womb. I would say, I moved to New Jersey, like in the early eighties—had to be like eighty-four, maybe? Eighty-four, eighty-two? Uh-huh. Yeah—because I grew up in New Jersey, so I had the best of two lives. I had the suburbia life and because I had so much family still in Brooklyn, New York, I also had the other side, where I was able to see how people and kids was able to—you know, struggle and live, you know? So it was, I would have to say that it was an interesting time for me growing up, you know—Because I kept my ties with my family in Brooklyn of course! But I got a chance to see how people are living a Claire Huxtable lifestyle [laughter] in Bergen County, New Jersey. So they don't, they don't, they really don't know… Some of the kids, they knew me, but they didn't know me, like, it's really interesting… You know.

Lewis: When you were a child what were some of your favorite hobbies?

Moore: [00:08:47] Wow… Now that's a good question. What were some of my favorite hobbies? I always liked sports. I always admired Julius Erving. They called him Dr. J at that time. But I can always remember my mother saying that, “You're going to have to learn how to count boy, you're going to have to learn how to count. You can't play sports if you don't count. You can't count if you don't go to school and graduate, you know.” So I used to have these counting contests with my mother, to see how far I can count past one hundred.

Moore: [00:09:16] And so, I played a lot of sports, but it wasn't till later on in junior high school... But when I got to high school, it was like full blown. So I was into the modeling club. I was into talent shows. I was into anything that was going on around school—Marcus Moore was in it. So I didn't really have time to be a thug, or a gang member—because if I didn't have these decent grades I couldn't participate in none of those fun activities that I loved to participate in. So, you know I loved being involved in a lot of fun stuff back then. So that was like—that was like—I had a lot of hobbies! You know, cross country team—you know I was a very active youth. So, when we say hobbies, I think I had a lot of 'em, you know? [Smiles]

Lewis: [00:10:53] We were going to—I'm going to, as they say, put a pin in that because it's, knowing you for as long as I have, you've retained that wanting to be doing positive things and all that kind of stuff.

Moore: Mm-hmmm.

Lewis: So, thanks for sharing all that.

Moore: Yes.

Lewis: And so you moved back to New York to go to college?

Moore: [00:10:49] So. Yeah. So, I moved back to New York... I was learning how to, you know—my mother kind of… You got to excuse me; I'm talking with food in my mouth... My mother cut the umbilical cord. Where I meant—what I really mean is that, now I'm over twenty-one and so now I have to learn how to be a man. And so, while I started to make my transition back to the city, I was learning from my own experience that even in New Jersey, it was really hard for me to find an apartment, even in New Jersey. And even with me working two jobs—I was working at Burger King, and I was working at U.P.S.

Moore: [00:11:39] And so, it just so happened that events started unraveling where, you know… I was staying in this one place in Teaneck, New Jersey where the lady was like—you know… She's about to close down her house. She's not going to rent no more rooms. You know, she's going to give me back my deposit, you know… She asked me what are my future plans… She wished the best for me. When I told her that I was going to move back to New York, she said, “Well, that's great. I think that for you to move back to New York you would become a stronger man and I wish you the best.”

Moore: [00:12:16] So, when I moved back to New York, I moved in with my uncle in Flatbush.[Pause] That was quite an experience as well—and I realized that looking for work, to—you know, just to take care of myself, that was definitely a challenge as well. Even—you know, with me moving back to New York… Because now, I'm this grown man now and I'm living in New York on a regular basis.

Moore: [00:12:50] And so, I have to kind of like learn how to adjust to being a single person living in the city, every day. Not just coming into the city once in a while, get with a couple girlfriends, and then go back over to Hoboken—somewhere—back in my county somewhere. This is like, now I'm here on a regular basis, every single day [claps hands for emphasis], and the trains, and the crowded streets and the craziness, so… It was almost like—getting familiar with my surroundings, getting familiar with city life, getting familiar with who I am now, you know… And how you gonna, you know, live your life now? You're here—now.

Lewis: When was that? Generally, it doesn't have to be an exact date.

Moore: [00:13:53] I think that was in the late nineties, maybe like ninety… It but might have been like ninety-four, ninety-seven? Ninety-seven, I think?

Lewis: Do you remember who was Mayor, or who was—what was going on in New York at that time? Anything stand out?

Moore: I think… I think Dinkins was? I think Dinkins or Giuliani was. I think Giuliani might have been coming down, or, or coming in—at that time. Dinkins, I know it was Dinkins and Giuliani—it wasn't quite Dinkins just yet.

Lewis: [00:14:41] And so, moving—what was it like moving back to… What was New York like then?

Moore: New York to me… In Jersey you had racism… And as a kid growing up in New Jersey you know, when we played sports and stuff like that, and we had—we had a little racism you know, out there and what not, but I always consider myself a diverse person. You know, I can get… I try to get along with different types of ethnic groups and people like that, you know… And so, when I moved back to New York, I'll never forget how racism was like—like right directly in my face. That kind of made me feel so—out of place. It was like—I was like, man that's crazy to me, you know?

Moore: [00:15:42] I remember that… I was sitting down one day on a train, and it was like—it was like—plenty of seats. It was actually—it was no seats. I'm trying to think… How did that episode go where the person didn't want to sit next to me. And you know, I know I wasn't, you know I wasn't undomiciled—homeless, or anything like that. But I just felt like, I’m like, “Well, why would you want to go sit way over there where you have to squeeze into a seat, when you can just sit here, next to this human being, and be relaxed. You don't have to worry about nobody brushing up on your leg, or your shoulder, or—you know… But you'd rather go all way down at the end of the car and squeeze in. I just thought that—that really bothered me, internally.

Moore: [00:16:43] And, I kind of remember in my young years growing up in New Jersey… How, I knew that racists was out there, but it wasn't in your face. Like, what has been happening to me is a lot, growing up in the, in my… So to me, it's like I was being—I guess I could say born again. Because when I moved from New York I was a kid, but when I moved back to New York I was a grown man and I had to learn how to live life as a grown man living in New York. So, it's different from living in the suburbs and living in the city where everything is real fast [snaps fingers] and people are real—really sharp with their dialogue and all that. So, I was grown up again, twice.
_ _
Lewis: [00:17:43] Hmmm… What lessons, since you grew up again—what lessons do you think you brought back with you from New Jersey, living in New York. How did living in the suburbs impact you?

Moore: [00:18:01] So, when I went to college—I'm in love with being around people and my major was sociology, but I never did good in college. College wasn't my thing. You know, the connections I had with college, I thought I was going to be like Dr. J. and go to the NBA and do finger rolls and stuff like that and people would love me... But I just wasn't really good in college like that and… But I managed to do well in speech communications and in my sociology class—I was majoring in sociology at the time, learning cultures and people and things like that.

Moore: [00:18:44] So, years later when I moved back to New York, you know things happened where I got a chance to be around a lot of different people of different cultures. And this was a beautiful and a great thing for me because I might didn't finish college, but I did well in the—as far as my major was sociology… But I got a chance to get more experience dealing with people and actions and situations—unfortunately that they lost family and friends due to police violence, people being somehow deported, or… These were the same issues that I was dealing with in my sociology class when I was in college at the time in New Jersey.

Moore: [00:19:39] But I was really learning life experiences dealing with people firsthand because I got a chance to be in the room in meetings and places with people who are experiencing real issues that went on in their life. So, but like in college at the time, I was just learning this stuff through a book. So I got a chance to really get a full understanding and really, you know—go in deep and think really critically with good intentions on why this is happening. So, I got a chance to really you know, focus in on the issues.

Lewis: [00:20:25] And… when did you first hear about Picture the Homeless?

Moore: [00:20:34] So I got a chance… Well, I heard about Picture the Homeless through a flyer that I had saw. So, I was in the shelter system here in New York City at a time where, you know, I was going through some things, and I was in the shelter system and I can remember that I was going to the cafeteria because it was now time to serve, like dinner—you know, they have these times and whatnot… So I’m seeing these blue flyers and people just walking by and stepping on them and kicking them around…

Moore: [00:21:11] But… I like to read a lot, and so one of my books that I was reading they talked about, “In the new time and the new era, you're going to have to be able to live conservatively. You're going to have to inquire on information.” So, I was very inquisitive on—what was that on the floor? So, I picked it up, and it said, “Picture the Homeless.” I said, “Picture the Homeless?!” I said, “Yeah, I need housing.” But I knew right away that, based on the flyer, it wasn't a “job-job-job” like, you know—you punch the clock, they'll give you your paycheck. I knew all that. I didn't—you didn't have to explain it to me twice or three or four times that it wasn't a job, like that.

Moore: [00:21:53] But when I saw on that flyer—it said, “fight for housing” and it had “civil rights meetings...” I knew with my spirit—I knew I had to check this out! So, I told my fellows that I was in the shelter with, I said—I showed them the flyer and I said, “We are going to this place!’ Then they said, “We are staying here!” [Laughter] So, I said, “Well, I will go and tell you guys what's it about.” “Is it a job?” They was only concerned was it a job that will pay you a paycheck—so they can get out of the shelter like that.

Moore: [00:22:27] But I was looking at it as more like… This is going to help you to get housing! It might not be a… So it was kind of hard for me to explain it to individuals who was oppressed for a paycheck. Not saying that I don't need currencies myself, but I knew that the time will come where it's going to be more—it's going to be more than just people, just you know, getting a paycheck and... You know, because sometimes—you can get a paycheck today and still can't pay your rent. So, I went, and I checked it out, and I found out it was—it was an amazing experience.

Lewis: Where was Picture the Homeless? Where was the office at that time?

Moore: [00:23:11] At that time, I had to travel to the Bronx. I had to travel to the Bronx, yeah... I was very fortunate that I was—I think I just got a job in the shelter system at the time. I found a job doing security work and I actually had funds to get there. So, I didn't have to rely on no hustles or no schemes or no case worker to show where I'm going. I actually had my own money to get to the office at that time and see what this Picture the Homeless thing was all about.

Lewis: What was your commute like from the shelter to the office? How long did it take?

Moore: [00:23:52] Well, I was there in Manhattan, so… It took a hot minute for me—because I had to get on this bus. I was on an island, at Wards Island at the time, and so we had to get on this bus, and then it’d drop us off and all that—125th Street in Harlem. And then I had to get on the six train and ride all the way to Fordham—Fordham Road, and then I would—Picture the Homeless was like around the corner from the train system—train station at that time. So I think it was like maybe a hour… Possibly forty-five minutes at the most.
Lewis: [00:24:35] So you’d go out of your way to get there.

Moore: Yeah. So, it was—it was really… Yeah, because you know… If you really wanted to do it, get up there, you would, you will bypass the time and the frustration. You just wanted to get there. It was a place that you really look forward to going, other than being in shelter all day—around a lot of frustrating men at the time.

Lewis: [00:25:02] When you first went to the office, do you have—do you remember a story, or a vibe, that you could share when you first went to the Picture the Homeless office—what it was like?

Moore: [00:25:14] Well, [long pause] okay—so, when I got there I was—I was kind of like… To me it was like a big adventure. You know, I was—I got to this… It was this house and it had this big sign on it. You couldn't miss it. It said Picture the Homeless.

Moore: [00:25:39] And so… I can remember going up these steps and looking around seeing all these computers, seeing some people and I was like, “I'm here for this meeting today.” They had coffee—they had coffee, free coffee! Yeah. Free coffee. I, at that point I was already broken in... I hated coffee at the time but because I'm doing security work, I saw the security guards sleeping and drinking coffee at the sites that I was at... Any event, they had free coffee so—you know, I had some coffee and I sat down, I'm looking at what's going on and I was really wondering what happens next—because I saw on the flyer, that the paper… That this meeting will start at two o'clock, this civil rights meeting.

Moore: [00:26:34] So, I was really open to this place called Picture the Homeless, you know—because I was kind of like unbalanced, because I was working two jobs, and still couldn't find a decent apartment for myself, for my monies. You know, I was tired of doing rooms, and being in rooms in places where it was so much—you know, craziness going on around me. I didn't want to be in those elements. You know I had to be… I figured that if I get another job, or whatever the case might be you know, I can afford to be able to have an apartment for myself! But unfortunately, it led me to the shelter system.

Moore: Anyhow, you know, I am at Picture the Homeless, and I'm wondering what's happening now.
Lewis: Mm-hmmm. And what happened?

Moore: [00:27:28] So, two o'clock came and I got a chance to sit in on this meeting. And the meeting—I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. This meeting was a bunch of homeless and formerly homeless people. A lot of them had pens, pads… They was taking notes! And these people, when they talk—I was like where did they learn all this from!? I saw white men. I saw Black men. I saw all types of racial groups in that room. Men, women… And right away I took to it and I just, you know—it just made me want to fall back and take notes internally.

Moore: [00:28:25] Because now I have left, years ago, my sociology class in college in New Jersey, where I never really finished, but I was now getting the life experience on dealing with people and where they’re coming from. So I didn't… So, I was getting another type of lessons that I didn't—I'm not too sure I was ready for! By the end of that meeting, I was so high on these people and the stuff that they knew, it just infatuated me to want to come to the meeting on Thursday.

Moore: [00:29:04] The meeting on Thursday was the housing meeting! I said, “The housing meeting?!” I knew I needed housing, but I knew even—even then in my early career of being a—Picture the Homeless—you know, soon to be leader… That I kind of like knew everything crystal clear. I didn't need for you to explain too much to me, because I know that Picture the Homeless don't give you housing… But it was just for someone like me, to be able to get out of the shelter you know, at certain times, and be able to use my time wisely to educate myself and to wonder why I would feel so unbalanced even with me working two jobs and still couldn't afford a apartment. This was a way for me to be able to empower myself.

Moore: [00:29:54] So, I came to the meeting on Thursday, and I was off from my security job! I was off! So, I was like, “man!” When I got back to the shelter that same [unclear] night and told some of my shelter buddies what took place, they seemed to really be—not… If it wasn't involving a paycheck, they was not interested.

Moore: [00:30:18] So I could not be discouraged by them. I had to go to the housing meeting on Thursday… I had something to do... I had an agenda, other than going to work and standing on my feet—you know, being around a bunch of people who didn't really care too much for me to even be there. I had this housing meeting to go to at Picture the Homeless and I was bringing my pen and my pad! [Laughter]

Lewis: [00:30:44] What… Do you remember in the housing meetings what they were talking about? If they don't help people get housing, what were they talking about?

Moore: [00:30:51] I can—I will never forget it. It was this guy named Frank Morales!

Lewis: Mm-hmmm.

Moore: This white guy named Frank Morales—he was like a pastor dude, and I was like... You know, he used to talk about this housing stuff, and you know—and he used to talk about, you know, things that's going on with meetings concerning housing with our local officials. That was the first time I'm really hearing how these people, in this particular organization, actually—you know, talk to politicians! And I'm like, “Man! These guys are talking to politicians. I don't see nobody in here with a suit on. It don't look like to me that these people in here can even afford a suit!

Moore: [00:31:50] But as time went on, I realized that some of these—a lot of these—including myself, I was going to these places and having meetings and going to places and people was just accepting me... It wasn't so much what I had on, but what was coming out my mouth, where politicians were at... They was like, “Where did these people come from?”

Moore: [00:32:15] So, I felt very comfortable—you know, on Thursdays talking about housing issues, and why the unbalance, and why so much vacancies is going on. It was just really—it was like night school to me. I found something that I can be part of and be learning at the same time.

Lewis: [00:32:44] Are there people who are still involved with the organization now that you remember were around then?

Moore: [00:32:54] Okay, so that's a good question too, because they took some time off but they kind of lingered around, you know. I do realize that we have to take care of ourselves. So, there are some people—a couple of people, that I know—a few people that I know are still around today, you know. And it’s—and it feels good to see those people still around you know, still fighting, still hanging in there, and whatnot. So yeah, they still around, a few of them—you know, that I still have relations with.

Lewis: That was about ten years ago.

Moore: [00:33:41] Yeah, you know [smiles] they still being a warrior and a warrior-ette, you know? So, it's good to be around the strength of people like that because, you know, you say to yourself, “You can be strong for your siblings, but where do you go when you need a little strength?” You know? So, it's good to be able to have people that keep you strong and keep you going.

Lewis: [00:34:10] And I remember those days when you first came, and we rode the train down together one night and you had a video camera.

Moore: Ohhhhhhh!

Lewis: And I didn't know you. But I had seen you, and we had never really had a conversation and so… We sat on the train together and you showed me some video that you were taking at Wards Island. Could you talk about that? What were you doing?

Moore: [00:34:40] Yeah! Wow, you remember a lot! [Smiles] So, let me tell you. So the video camera—I always said to myself… Because I was meeting—I just felt like I cannot be here in this space where I was at on Wards Island. This needs to be—people need to see this. And so I interviewed some of the men there. And I even came across some of the guys that had plans... They knew this person… They’re doing this type of stuff with videos and voices and whatnot...

Moore: [00:35:11] You know that all sounds good, but I just knew deep down inside my soul that I had to go and interview some of these guys around here because they was really experiencing some real tough hardship that was going on in the shelter system at that time. And I was able to make them feel comfortable and relaxed to talk on camera and I was just documenting stuff that was going on at the time when I was in the shelter, where the shelter was like my residence for a little while.

Moore: [00:35:47] And people will complain, but I felt like I needed to do something—and I had to do something. So, I didn't know Picture the Homeless like that—you know, yet. But I knew that I had to document stuff that was going on where I was living. Stuff that was going on in the shelter at the time. You know, I lost a lot of footage due to my lifestyle and how I was living though, but I was documenting and interviewing people in a shelter even before I got a chance to have opportunities with Picture the Homeless to do certain types of media work.

Lewis: [00:36:27] Mm-hmmm. And so, what were some of the hardships that stand out?

Moore: Well I can remember that people was in the shelter systems for like, so long. I got them to talk about that on camera. They—the food was, was very sickening, you know? People complaining about the showers… The showers—people was doing things in the showers where people have to wash up, and it wasn't sanitary, you know? Sometimes some of us don't need to be in the shelter, some of us need to be in a nursing home, you know? [Pauses] And it was just like really—social issues within the system that people are being neglected.

Moore: [00:37:14] And I was able to get that out—out of a couple of people—you know, some people wasn't comfortable, that's understandable—but I got people to talk about that. People was able to get stuff off their minds and I thought that was very important to do. I felt somewhat like, like it was my job to do it. And today I still feel the same way, you know. So, that's what I was doing at that time to help me to get through all this, this muck of why people are in the shelter system this long...

Moore: [00:37:55] People are coming home from prison who got this… You know, you’re in these rooms with people who are like, they’re so frustrated and mad, you know. So, you’re in a room with people that comes from jail, their parole officer dropped them off...

Moore: [00:38:13] So, I got a chance to experience all these things, dealing with the media stuff that I was doing... I had no idea that this was going to eventually connect to an organization called Picture the Homeless, later on in years with me. Not a clue.

Lewis: [00:38:33] How—with some of the people that you interviewed, when they talked about how long they were in the shelter, how—what are we talking about?

Moore: Some of them just been bouncing around from—you know, one building to the next, you know... Some of them been there, you know—three years, six months, nine months, a year, you know… It was really—it was really frustrating for me to just hear this.

Moore: [00:39:12] And it just got to the point where people was doing things desperately, like taking pills just to get housing fast—because if you take some kind of pills and the doctor, you know, could provide a description, and make it out that you need some extra attention—then you get your place faster. To this day I, you know, that's not talked about enough.

Moore: [00:39:40] But I'll never forget when fellows was trying to get me to take this pill, so I can get my housing faster… I came into the shelter system as healthy dude and I plan on leaving, and I left as a healthy individual in my right state of mind. So, I realized that people was endangering their health to able to get some form of housing and they didn't care what they did to their bodies to get it to be diagnosed of—of whatever type of degree of health that you would have to have your own housing immediately, you know… As opposed to waiting for the system to house you because you're able bodied, so you could just get out there get a job or something—and do your own housing.

Moore: [00:40:28] But. I've learned that a lot of men at the time—because I was in a men's shelter, they just got to the point where they just endangered their health, they didn't care no more. They're gonna, you know—take these pills, and get checked out by the doctor where they have to address them to some kind of housing package immediately.

Lewis: Mm-hmmm.

Lewis: [00:40:51] So you, as somebody who is fairly new in the shelter system, how did that impact you—being around men with those experiences and hearing those stories?

Moore: [00:41:01] Okay so, [slash] Jersey kid/New York/Brooklyn dude, you know… I kinda had to play both sides of the fence. I had to kind of like, really be like a Garfield the cat and be really—be cool, to see who's who, you know? And just like really fall back and just analyze people and kind of like watch at the same time, you know… Because you, like I said before, I don't think I mentioned it… You know, you had people coming home from the streets—no, you had—yeah, you had people come home from being incarcerated. You had people from the streets and then you know—you had people even then from other places around the country—somehow have found themselves in the New York City shelter system. So I had to really pick and choose who I'm going to conversate with. Then you had some real, you had some real people who had some real issues—that you know, I kind of had to, you know—check them from a distance, you know.

Lewis: [00:42:05] And so, Marcus Moore, right—what I'm hearing is that you know, you were—you’re a lifelong learner, whether it's in formal education like college or from your life experience. You like to read... You like to analyze... And so, at Picture the Homeless, what are some of the things that you've learned at Picture the Homeless.

Moore: [00:42:34] Okay, so… There is so much that I learned at Picture the Homeless… From learning my audience, to [pause] talking about… Community land trusts. That's a little later on in my career, but… I kind of learned how to… [Pauses] I gave some workshops at Picture the Homeless, myself!

Lewis: About what?

Moore: [00:43:07] About how to, you know—start your own business, and things... Because I used to clean carpet… I had this machine called Kirby. So, I was able to teach a class at Picture the Homeless on how you’re able to go about cleaning upholstery chairs, and stuff like that. I don't do that work no more, you know—but it was something that I was able to learn to homeless—teach to homeless and formerly homeless people, because a lot of us had apartments and homes before we left—before we became… Got into our situation. So, I was able to teach some classes and learn some things from Picture the Homeless.

Moore: [00:43:45] I got a chance to learn how to lobby in Albany. I got a chance to learn some things about the organization, you know—when it was founded, who our founders are, you know… And I got a chance to talk in public about some of the work that we’re doing at Picture the Homeless. You know—stereotypes—teach… Kind of like help people to understand that, you know—the stereotypes when it comes to challenging homeless people… That it's really just a stereotype, it's not really what's going on, you know.

Moore: [00:44:32] And so, this list is so, so long for me. I could probably go on and on and on. But it's a lot that I have really learned through my years with Picture the Homeless because it became like night school. It became like another way for me to really occupy my time as opposed to chasing people around town through the course of the evening—though I can't, I can't you know, there's so many other things for me to do with my time, than to chase people around town wasting energy, you know. So I utilize my energy into learning about different things about the organization. So, it's really—you know, my learning… As far as what I learned with Picture the Homeless it’s so long, it's bananas.

Lewis: [00:45:32] Well, and you wear different hats, you're on the board, yes?

Moore: Yes, so I went from sleeping in the street to now on the board. And I'm really, really humble, and grateful you know—for being selected on the board. It’s really an accomplishment for me, and I'm hoping that as years go by, that I'm able to make an impact—because I'm still learning what it is to be a board member and stuff like that. So, you know, I'm learning—you know, I'm willing to learn from, you know… I will never stop learning, never stop doing that, yeah.

Lewis: [00:46:18] What are some of the things that is important for people to know, who are joining a board of a grassroots organization like Picture the Homeless.

Moore: Okay... I think it's good to learn the history of the organization. [Smiles] That's a good way to start. I think it should be something that you really want to do. You know, you really have to want to join the board, you know. You got to really see the vision and you got to really want to be part of this, this thing that you're doing—that people selected you to be among them to make decisions for a corporation or organization that’s going to—that's looking to be led into the future and to continue to last through out the times, you know, so… It’s—you know, because it's good. It's good. So I think you need to learn and be able to be open to decision-making.

Lewis: [00:47:34] So, here you've been a member, you been—you are a leader. I know you've been hired at different moments to do workshops and surveys, and now you're a board member. And so, what is it about Picture the Homeless that has kept you coming around and that has inspired you to be so committed?

Moore: [00:48:01] Wow. Devotion… You know, it’s, it’s… You know [pauses] hmmm… This is… So many people—so many people, I would say, you know… I like this organization called Picture the Homeless because—you know, people don't want… People are like, so embarrassed of, you know—them being homeless, or being considered to be homeless, or whatever the case may be. I could go on with numbers of different words—undomiciled, homeless and all that.

Moore: [00:48:41] But, what keeps me going with the organization is that there's not enough of organizations—I feel, that's really focused on homeless issues. You know, you got a lot of different organizations that do a lot of different things. But I feel that Picture the Homeless really focuses on what's going on with homeless and the most vulnerable community, that's out there in the streets, around the nation. Those are homeless citizens that's out there, that's being neglected—rather it's New York to Miami to the Bay…

Moore: [00:49:19] People really need to know that you can be homeless just like that! If we had a national—natural disaster, did I say that correctly? Well—and so, I know that today you can be on top. Tomorrow, you could be looking for anybody—somebody just to sit down and hear you talk about how you're now homeless.

Moore: [00:49:55] And so, I realize that when you are homeless it's hard for you to do anything! You can't concentrate on work, you can't concentrate on your family, it’s hard to concentrate on your family… You know, getting proper sleep—we should have more sleep foundations. So homelessness is really something that people tend to act like it don't exist, but they know that it exists, but they don't want to be it, they’re scared of it, they’re afraid of it, but it's a reality. You know, we can sit down, we can talk about this thing, and we can come up with solutions. So that keeps me connected.

Lewis: [00:50:32] Okay… Thank you. I want to talk a little bit about… I want the homeless poet to come in here

Moore: Ahhhhhhhhh!

Lewis: into this interview.

Moore: Okay!

Lewis: [00:50:49] So, who's the homeless poet and where did… How did the homeless poet come into existence?

Moore: [00:50:51] Oh man! Okay... [Smiles] We have to bring him out… So, what happened was, I was being honored, you know—one year at Picture the Homeless, and it was one of my… You know, it was a bright time for me, you know, I was really happy.

Moore: [00:51:10] And so, I was asked to do a poem and I thought to myself, I'm going to do this poem that I—that I know that's part of my story on how I became homeless, and what did I—the things that I did, that one night to end my homelessness. And so, I have this story that I tell a lot. And it's so often I tell it, you know—it's been five years that I've been still telling it, and I had a documentary out, and people still want to hear the story again and again and again—I'm humble.

Moore: [00:51:53] And so… I call myself the homeless poet because I tell this story that's so—that is so universal to people that's out there in the Bay, that's riding the Bart… Here in New York City, we call it—it’s the train. And this is not a sectional story. It's almost a nationwide story of a person being challenged, looking to—to find some kind of housing and that's riding the train, or the Bart—all night long, and is forced to go out and find some kind of refuge and now they are experiencing a lot of voices, and stuff like that. So, I came up with the name—you know, the homeless poet—it stuck.

Moore: [00:52:51] People keep saying to me, [imitates voice] “Well, you're not homeless no more!” Well, you know, I got a chance to be around some good—and some famous, people… And so, you know—I might not be homeless like that, but I'm going to keep on talking about homeless issues, because I am an artist. If you don't want me to be on the bill with you, because this is who I am, this is what I'm going to talk about, and this is—this is who I am! So, I can't change who I am...

Moore: [00:53:24] At the end of the day, I'm either at a soup kitchen, and getting information from people who look at me and say, “You know what? You should talk about this here, because my foot is hurting, and they don't understand this.” So, I might just take that and put it into a poem or a spoken word. And I’m going to talk about that because this is what's bothering my fans and people in my community that come from different walks of life. So, it's not just all challenging homeless people. I've become this figure—that I'm glad to be, that I have to go out there and have a balance of issues that concern people.

Lewis: [00:54:11] That's amazing. When did you first start writing poetry?

Moore: [00:54:16] Hmmm… So, I would have to say I didn't really start taking it serious until Picture the Homeless had a writing class. [Smiles] One of my favorite instructors was, this brother, he's an artist, by the name of Not4Profit. I used to—you know, I used to plan my days and my weeks to be at this writing class.

Moore: [00:54:44] And once again, I would spend so much time at Picture the Homeless—nine to five—like it was my job, and I got a chance to be in a lot of little workshops and classes… And Not4Profit was the instructor back then—that I would be more than glad to sit in it and write. And so, I had so much fun you know, writing and trying to express myself through literature.

Lewis: Mm-hmmm.

Moore: [00:55:09] And so, through literature and arts, I’ve become—I have been able to come up with another way of fighting oppression. You know, through doing theater and some of my lifestyle has been—has influenced theater plays. You know, I'm really, I'm really humbled when it comes to that because it's not often that a person is able to have his or her lifestyle influencing to off-way [Broadway] plays and stuff like that. So, I'm humbled that I can use my life experience and continue to share it with the public.

Lewis: [00:55:59] Okay—and you mentioned getting an award from Picture the Homeless. What was that?

Moore: [00:56:05] [Smiles] That was a… Okay. That was a… Oh boy! We called it—you know, so many people received this before—Ron Casanova... Reach—oh my goodness, I can't believe [smiling] I'm stumbling over this here. Because you know, sometimes you don't want to talk too much about yourself, because you don't want people to think you're so full of yourself. But this award, it had a lot to do with Reach One to Teach One, you know?

Lewis: Okay.

Moore: [00:56:46] And so, I was happy to receive that award from Picture the Homeless, because I feel like when I'm not in the realms of Picture the Homeless, I'm somewhere in the soup kitchen somewhere and there's young artists out there, there's young people out there that has been seeing some things, and following me. And so I know I have to continue to reach them to teach them, and to show them… So that's what that award was about—I was given a Reach and Teach award from Picture the Homeless, and I look at it and every now and then, you know—kind of like brush it off, so it can stay shiny… And it keeps me motivated and stuff, you know?

Lewis: [00:57:32] You mentioned performing your poetry. So, in what kind of places are you performing?

Moore: [00:57:38] So, that is interesting now... So, I will be per—I perform my poetry a lot in the soup kitchens—not the soup kitchens, in the churches. The churches seem to like my poetry, especially you know, the Do or Die! poem. It's like a classic for me now, where—because I mention… The part that they like, I believe is, I wrote a screenplay where I reach out to God to help me to be able to find and have the strength to go inside this abandoned house. And so a lot of the churches, they really like that.

Moore: [00:58:22] And so, my biggest audience is the churches, and now it started trickling down to gala's, and different places in the community. I perform a lot in the community, and it has… I continue to, you know—it continues to… I don't know, I continue to—my name continues to flow around. So, I have been able to perform at the Jazz church [smiles] in Manhattan, you know doing some poetry—so that's positive, I'm happy to be able to do that.

Moore: [00:59:03] And I also have gotten the chance to perform in different places around the country where I wasn't too sure that the audience was going to respond to something so urban and critical, you know, such as this particular poem. Because when I finished, the people looked at me as like, you know, “Is you alright?”

Moore: [00:59:26] You know, so I’m just happy to be able to come up and be able to embrace Picture the Homeless with so much love because I got a chance to really express—and learn how to express myself, through culture, through literature and culture and the arts. It's just amazing. But I perform in places like LaMaMa, yeah in the Lower East Side, you know sometimes doing poetry, and I stay at the La Marketa here in East Harlem. I’m like a young lady by the name of Mariposa—butterfly.

Moore: [01:00:04] I do a lot of—I write a lot of skits and poems and monologues. A lot of it is based on homelessness, because I want people to understand when I'm dead and gone, that they gonna understand what goes on with homeless people. That's one of my missions. I want people to understand that these things—artists… I think homeless people need to have a… Homeless people need to have artists that they can say, “Yeah! That's my man! He's going to do this here. I am—I talked to him about doing this here and, you know—he's going to represent that!”

Moore: [01:00:47] So, I'm that dude that hopefully—that people that's challenged will say, “You know what? I'm going to get myself and I'm going to do what he did, and I'm going to maybe look to my inner spirit or desire to—you know, roll up my sleeves, and do this.” So, I have to continue to write about these issues and perhaps people will find it—find me interesting to perform in their coliseums, in their theaters, and hopefully that can continue to happen as I continue to maybe—perhaps my popularity will continue to grow.

Lewis: [01:01:32] Would you share a little bit… You said you have your poem, it's a classic, Do or Die! Could you share a little bit of it now?

Moore: Really—you want me say it?! [Smiling]

Lewis: Yeah!

Moore: Okay, alright.
 
Lewis: As much of it as you want.

Moore: Okay, so I'm just going to say it like this here. Okay—so it goes a little, you know I'm always adding stuff to it...

Moore: [01:01:53] [Recites his poem, Do or Die!]

Please stay clear of the closing doors. Boop! Boop!
I wasn't quite homeless
But I knew all the cops, all the stops
Back and forth back and forth
Brooklyn the location
I used to ride the train with my man Joe. He was down with the LGBT community
I guess he wasn’t worthy for housing neither/huh, discriminating
There's my man Sam
He's a Vietnam Vet
How can America/Turn her backs on the Vets
Bang! Bang! Bang!
Oh man! Cool officer, cool-cool-cool!
Bums, that's what they used to call me
Oh man, why'd they turn the AC up so high?!
They freeze me to the streets
Nowhere to go
No homeboys
No girlfriends
You're on your own son!
I can't feel my feet
I can't feel my feet
I'm hearing voices
One voice said, “You're going to die in the streets.”
The other voice said, “Seek shelter my son, seek shelter.”
The other voice said, “You're going to die. You're going to die.”
The other said, “Look, there's an abandoned house. Go inside!”
No I can't do it! I can't do it!
I'm scared! I'm scared! I'm scared!
I come this far by faith, to turn back now
As I walked through the valleys of the shadow of death I should fear no evil
So I creep to the house
I turned the knob
This house was open. This house was open.
Dogs, junkies, death.
I didn't go all the way in.
I stayed in the front.
And set my watch to 5 o'clock.
And I said, “I'll leave this place
But for now I just need a little sleep.”
[Snoring sounds]
The next night I'm faced with the same situation
I came back again and again and again.
After the tenth time ladies and gentlemen
I put a lock on the door
Before I go
You're going to remember you seen
To the south to the north to the east to the west
I’m the
[makes drumroll sounds with mouth]
I'm the homeless poet!
Ahhhhhhhh

Lewis: [01:04:03] Thank you Marcus. [Smiles] You have another piece about stereotypes. What _are _some of those stereotypes?

Moore: [01:04:13] So normally, when I do the Do or Die! poem, I normally warm up the audience—where I get… It's like a call and response, because I want people to understand that homeless people are not drunks—not all drunks. You know, people think that all homeless people are all drunks. And so, that's a stereotype right there. You know, people shouldn't be stereotyping other people because of their situations, or they are down the luck or whatever the case might be.

Moore: [01:04:41] So normally, when I open up with this particular poem, I normally get audience participation. I'll say something like, “Ladies and gentlemen! Before I get started I want you to help me out with something. When I quote it, I want you to say stereotype.” So, I will say things like, “All homeless people are bums.” And then the audience will say, “Stereotype!” And then I'll say, “All homeless people are drunks.” Then audience will say, “Stereotype!”

Moore: [01:05:13] The purpose of me saying this and warming it up with the crowd before I get into my poetry or my spoken word, is to get their brain to start thinking like, “Wait a minute. Not all, not, you know that's not right. Homeless people are not all bums. Not all, all drunks. You know, this is not right! We shouldn't be stereotyping no one.” So, I try to get them to start really thinking on the strength of stereotyping and why we shouldn't really be stereotyping people, and how people are often mis-understood.

Lewis: So, you are a lifelong learner, but you're also a teacher.

Moore: Yes. [Smiles]

Lewis: [01:06:02] And so, what do you think… Well let me rephrase that. You know how people go through difficult situations like homelessness and they get back on their feet, and they, they want to move on?

Moore: Yes.

Lewis: What is it about you, what is it that—why is it that you stay connected and that you have become a teacher through your poetry and your spoken word about homelessness. What is it about you that keeps you in this struggle?

Moore: So, I realized that for me, you know—my thing is, you know, the life experiences and I'm able to take the life experiences and put it into stories, and write about it—because these issues are issues, that people, these people…

Moore: [01:07:10] I used to—you know, I’m going to just take something from a good friend of mine—I like to consider him a good friend of mine, Willie Baptist. A lot of these people out here are geniuses. And so, they're not bums. They're not drunks.

Moore: [01:07:24] But I’m really—I guess I'm trying to say, is that I take the life experiences and try to put them into a story, or a thesis where I can continue to either write about it or connect it to an issue through art, and be able to maybe touch people. It seems like it's been working over the years.

Moore: [01:07:52] But I have to continue to stay connected to the people, and that's what I try to do a lot of times, because sometimes when I go to different soup kitchens to eat, it's not that I really be knocked out hungry, or starving. It's just that a lot of times I go because I want to see who's in there, who… You know, sometimes you just be wanting—I want to go just for the company, you know—just to kick it with certain people I haven't seen in a long time. So, these things keeps me connected—that I must stay connected.

Moore: [01:08:22] Sometimes I want to know what's happening, what's happening on the scene so I can write new material, so I can continue to keep being that dude or that individual, that people can say, “You know what? He's right. This is what's happening.” And these are the things that I know that mainstream media, or these critics are not too much interested in talking about, or really bringing to the light, because in this capitalist system—if it's not really about money and stocks and 401 K's… You know, “Then why we going to talk about some damn homeless folks? You know what I'm saying? What are they contributing?”

Moore: [01:09:02] And that's where I come in at, because I get a chance to continue to build my platform. I get—I get a chance to continue to be around different walks and different artists, and people and professors who are not connected anymore, you know. Who, you know—so I don't think I can be bought, but at the same time my audience, and my base, is really those grassroots people who are—who continue to fight for the issues, for our brothers and sisters who can't fight for themselves.

Moore: [01:09:42] So, these are the things that I must continue to stay connected and still be able to show people respect, so I can continue to have respect, and continue to be, you know—someone that people don't mind, you know, sitting down, talking about, “Listen, Marcus—you know—this is what it is.” You know, so people share deep conversations with me and give me ideas to talk about stuff and look at stuff from a different perspective.

Lewis: [01:10:15] So, you're describing homeless folks as your teachers.

Moore: You know what, I guess you can say that because my whole career has been influenced by homeless folks. Um-Hmm. That's right.

Lewis: Could you share a time, if you can think of a time—where you were talking to someone who was homeless and a light bulb went off in your head, like wow. That's amazing.

Moore: [01:10:47] Okay so, [pauses], I noticed that I was sitting at the atrium, and we know that here in the United States, that this is supposed to be the richest country of them all, you know. And so, one of the guys came into the atrium... For those that don't know, the atrium here in New York City is a public space where all people are welcome and you can come in there and sit, and as long as you are acting accordingly, you know, you can come in here, sit, and have food and whatnot… They open—some of them twenty-four hours.

Moore: [01:11:27] Any event, this particular brother, he came in and he was talking about where he got these drinks—these like, these healthy drinks and whatnot. And so, we thought that he went to the store to get them. And so, I noticed that everybody in the atrium had these drinks… These salads… People, you know… And then, all of a sudden, it just hit me—that, wait a minute, you mean to tell me that you got those drinks—you didn't get those drinks from the store. These really healthy drinks, that—you know, you would need a lot of money to buy. So what happened was, I learned that people—individuals, was going into the garbage, right? That just sounds crazy—the garbage, right? To get food.

Moore: [01:12:24] So… It really hit me that along with sustaining your health and different things of that nature, homeless folks was going and getting food out the garbage, that these stores could not sell again, but being very wasteful and it just—and it hit me, it was like—damn…

Moore: [01:12:56] Homeless people have always been sustainable. It's not homeless people who are constantly flushing their toilet. It's not homeless people who constantly flipping off the lights. It's not homeless people who are constantly buying homes. But, what I learned what was happening, they was sustaining themselves. Because when you are in all types of weather and you are a homeless person, you can't eat certain foods. So, if you can go into the garbage and get yourself a nice healthy cranberry mixed with pineapple juice and sustain your diet so you won’t, you know—die out there. That's powerful!

Moore: [01:13:47] And so, I learned that when I'm out there recycling, and have been recycling over the years, that being sustainable in all types of fashion and ways_, is genius_. And I learned that and I'm able to—and that's for me, that's the light bulb right there… Because we don't talk about that enough here in the United States, on how wasteful you are when it comes to the food, that people are starving here in your own, your own backyard.

Moore: [01:14:26] So, I learned—I have learned how to sustain myself throughout the years and how wasteful that is! Somebody should be re—you know, somebody should be reported, some of these stores and places, should be… You know, it should a… It should be—like in front of these stores there should be like, a common—we call it “common.” Where, “Okay, we don't want this here, leave it for community.” But that don't exist. So, that's the light bulb for me.

Moore: [01:15:02] Once I learned how… Once I learned what the community was doing to sustain itself, that kind of like took me to another level as far as homesteading, community land trusts, because we was no longer waiting for institutions or individuals. You kind of learned how to do these things and get resources with community, or with individuals. You're educating the community, individuals are educating themselves, and learning how to live—live guerrilla. You know how you have guerrilla warfare... So, these are all the things that have went off in my light bulb.

Lewis: [01:15:46] So it's interesting when you're talking, what that brings to mind is the stereotype of homeless people being weak, or somehow something's wrong with them, as opposed to what you're describing, which is being resourceful and resilient and sustainable and I wondered if you could share a little bit about your work as a recycler, an “ecological engineer” as Jean Rice would say.

Moore: [01:16:18] [Smiles] Yes. So, I'm glad you brought that up because Jean Rice, he have taught me to say, “ecological engineer.” So, when I go to different places, I'm often introduced as an ecological engineer. Some people don't know how to pronounce it but it's okay. I get what they're saying. And so, I have learned how to… [Pauses] I have learned how to build my economy by recycling cans and bottles, and making it work for me from time to time. But you know, you kind of move on from things you know, after a while. But these are the things that I was doing early on in my… Should I say early on?

Moore: [01:17:07] No, but these are the type of things that I was using as life experiences and tools, and resources, to help me to be able to maintain on—off the land the same way my ancestors have always did—who lived off the land and know how to treat the land and the earth in a way where they can be resourceful and full. And so, I used to use these cans—and I still do it from time to time.

Moore: [01:17:36] Others try to make me feel a certain way, because they're doing this and they're doing that. But I know that cans and bottles has been sustaining people, you know—for quite some time now. Sometimes it's very competitive out there at night, where, you know, you don't even want to do it because so many people are coming through with shopping carts and working, working, and so… [Long sigh] You know, what do you do now? When you [smiling] can't even pick up cans and bottles no more, because… I mean, you could still pick them up but there's so many people—you hear me, you even have women out there, that's doing it. And so, you know—there was a time when people wouldn't do it. Now everybody's doing it. You see young people doing it, you know and so… I'm not mad, you know—I’m not mad…

Moore: [01:18:35] It's just that now you realize that you have to move on from that because… It's been very helpful for me anyway, you know—because I've lived in a lot of places and I've been able to use the money from picking up cans and bottles to buy tools for the house, to help to buy groceries for myself. So I, from time to time, I really didn't have to count on public assistance to feed me, you know? I developed my own—my own resources from pantry to picking up cans and bottles and going shopping for myself and which things that I want to eat, you know what I’m saying, or little miscellaneous stuff around the house and whatnot.

Moore: [01:19:26] It’s really—it’s really a way of living in a society where they discriminate when it comes to employment. You know, you get a chance to create your own job and people respect it! You get all types. I get all types of people that come on the train, and you know—you have these personal conversations with them, and they often tell you, you know, conversational, “I respect what you're doing.” You know, people respect what you're doing, others like to still look at you like you are— that you got three heads…

Moore: [01:19:58] But those are the ones that's not ready yet. They still in this tradition—this tradition of thinking and doing things that's slowly playing out… Because Rome don’t—Rome don't last forever, you know. Things got to change. So, I don't know if that answered the question. I feel like I'm… I don't want to sound, get too far off with you—you know, from what you originally asked me.

Lewis: No, you're great, and whatever comes to mind about—about this, in this conversation...

Moore: Yes.

Lewis: is important.

Moore: It is. [Smiles]

Lewis: You have a lot of things to say and a lot of knowledge so

Moore: Aw…

Lewis: don't hold back.

Moore: Thank you very much. [Smiling]

Lewis: [01:20:40] You know… So, do you have a route? Do you have an area that you pick up in?

Moore: Not any more, not any more.

Moore: [01:20:50] I—I always have my cart. I have my cart with me this afternoon, it's outside… Because I'm always in this survival mode. Really, I have my cart with me. Every now and then, I leave it in my space but it's just the way times have gone on—where you… I have to always, it seems like I'm always in survival mode.

Moore: [01:21:12] So I got my cart because I had to bring my big water jug. So, I have activities lined up for the whole entire week and so, the reason why I brought it is because I know that I needed water. So, in my place, I don't have running water.

Moore: [01:21:31] So, wherever I go through the course of my day, I will take out my gloves sometimes. I have my work with me. I might have my pick-up stick and I might just pick up—or go to work somewhere before I go on the train. It could be in Queens... It could be in the Bronx... It could be anywhere. That's one of the beautiful things about recycling, you can start work any time—tell your crew, “Listen, I'll see you’ll guys later…” Walk around the corner, throw on them gloves, open your bag... Look and see what time it is, what day it is… It's time to go to work. Some days it's better to recycle than other days—though you can really recycle any day. But you throw on your head phones, turn on some jazz, and you’re in your own little world— you working.

Lewis: [01:22:21] Hmmm. What do you think is going on with the economy that so many more people are recycling.

Moore: [01:23:02] So, I kind of like feel that people kind of like need—a little something extra. You know, people are not able to, you know—they need something extra where they can negotiate their own time. You know, people go out and get another job, a second job that's really, that's going to require them to be on a job at a certain time at certain places and it's just really… You know, it's just that people don't really have time to be trying to commute to different jobs like that through the course of the week, you know. So, if you could find something that's very convenient, picking up cans and bottles it's still— it's so convenient now.

Moore: [01:23:13] People are like, deprived. It's starting up, just like people getting on soup kitchens, they're deprived. People getting on them soup kitchens, coming out of the office building like Occupy Wall Street and getting on them lines and really uh—hustling! And so, I think that the economy is still in denial that is not as good as it could be for those that's working nine to five—for those working families. You know, it might be good for the bosses, but I don't think it's all that great for those who are constantly like myself in survival and work mode, who got children, who are really trying to, you know—not be the new faces of homelessness.

Lewis: [01:24:03] Hmmm. Okay… Are there things that we've skipped over that you want to mention?

Moore: Let me see… Let me see here.

Moore: [01:24:15] So, [pauses] so, all I can say is now—is that we talked about a lot of stuff here. But I just want to say this here—that I think what needs to be said with me is that, yes I'm a homesteader, but I also understand what a community land trust is. And so, I think with people—see, what I have done, it's nothing new to what people have done in the past, and whatnot, you know. But what I’m—I guess what I'm really trying to say is that, I understand what it is to be a homesteader and a person who are transitioning to, you know—or trying to help people to transition into cooperative living and really being, really self-sufficient and have to depend on the system for everything.

Moore: [01:25:35] A community land trust, and a homesteader—understand the importance of cooperative living and being able to develop resources for him or herself, or their community. So, a homesteader in a community land trust, that's the future. There's going to be people who is going to be willing to shell out a whole lot of money for rent or whatever the case might be. But I think—what needs to be said with me, is that there's definitely a new era coming, of people who've learned how to be self-sufficient and live within a community of people who are just like him or her, yeah.

Lewis: [01:26:27] Could you share what homesteading is, what it means to you?

Moore: Okay… So, that's fair. So, I like to look at homesteading as a person—a manager of the property and the land, you know. A homesteader is someone like a stewardess of the land and property, you know—and so that's what I feel that I am. I'm a legal resident and I'm a stewardess—a stewardess… I think I said that word right, of the land. And I try to help improve the land in the maintenance of the property and the land and whatnot, meaning cutting the grass, you know—making little, small repairs, occupying the property, bringing life back into the property and whatnot. So that could be you know, just basically just doing basic repairs, and just living your life, you know—living your life in a way where it's not hurting anybody but it’s bringing infrutality [immortality?] to things, you know… And that's important for people to be able to understand these things, because—you know, I have lived in places over the—you know… See this is where I get a little self-conscious that, you know, where I feel like sometimes I might be talking too much.

Lewis: [Whispers] It's okay.

Moore: [01:28:03] Right… So, one of the things that I think need to be said is that I've been able to be sustainable living and occupying homes in places over the years, as I see some of my peers have fallen and died in institutions that supposedly helps them to get back on their feet—where I have seen where they have been neglected and their health has really, you know, been in jeopardy.

Moore: [01:28:53] As I continue to struggle in my own housing, but I have been able to say that I have had more stability than a lot of these folks over the years and that's really something to look into… Here it is, you have someone who has occupied and maintained homes. [Long pause] Then the system that puts you in this system and promises you and teases you with lotteries and not really—make you jump over hula hoops, and you still not get the care and the things that you need to help you to maintain yourself. We talk about health! You know…

Moore: [01:29:38] People in my community have shown me how to maintain, by going into substance in different things like that on the street, to be able to help me to maintain these days. So, we are really living—some of us, we’re living two lifestyles.

Moore: [01:29:57] Just really quick… I don’t—you know, really quick… So, I'm on the West Coast, right? And so, as I was riding the Bart, I realized that—what's going on here? You know, I'm riding the Bart to the, to the Bay, Oakland and I'm seeing this highway. I'm seeing all this… I'm seeing like—sleeping bags. Right? Then, I'm seeing like, little—other little food packages and stuff like that. I'm on the highway…

Moore: [01:30:24] And then I realized something. I realized something. Something's going on here. I'm seeing the water's fenced in? The water's fenced in, through the corporations and stuff like that. And as I continue to ride the Bart train right—I'm noticing as I look up, I'm seeing all types of things that look like people been living out on the land. Right? So what I understand is that—there's two lifestyles. There's two things going on. People are surviving along the water.

Moore: [01:30:55]  People… [Long pause] How can I say—the undomiciled people are on the move. They're living among the water in modern times. So, those of us that's still caught up in this tradition of your 401K—your, your… And all that, I'm able to still travel and see things is moving, while, I know how this is going to sound—the herd is still sleeping. Thank you Marcus Moore.

Lewis: Thank you Marcus Moore. [Smiling] Well, to be continued.

Moore: Yes.

END OF INTERVIEW