Arvernetta Henry

Lewis: [00:00:02] So, I'm going to ask you your name and some basic

Henry: Okay.

Lewis: background questions.

Henry: So, hello, good morning!

Henry: Good morning!

Lewis: Could you tell me—who are you?

Henry: My name is Mrs. Arvernetta Henry and I'm a semi-retired New York City teacher _and _I'm a member of the organization called Picture the Homeless.

Lewis: Okay!

Henry: [00:00:33] I have been at Picture the Homeless for approximately six years, when I found myself in a situation, that I was facing the shelter.

Lewis: Do you want to want to talk about that? How that happened?

Henry: Nah [barely audible]

Lewis: How did you hear about Picture the Homeless?

Henry: [00:01:01] Thanks for asking that! Prior to going into the shelter, I—being a teacher, I would run into my old former students. And it so happened, I was walking down 125th Street and minding my own business and... They tend to remember me! And one student, Melissa—she said "Mrs. Henry!" And she said it twice. I turned around, thinking about other things. I looked at her, and she said, "You don't remember me?! I'm one of your best students!" [Laughter] And so, "From where?" and she told me the school, which was where I was, and so she said, "I was one of your former seventh grade teachers, I mean students." And so, I said, "What are you doing now?" So she said, "I'm volunteering, an intern, with this organization called Picture the Homeless." And at that time I was not homeless. I said, "Picture the Homeless!” I said, “What do they do?" "Well, they work—they're at 116 Street and we help people that are homeless." I said, “Really?" And so, she said, "Yeah". I said, "Well what are you doing?' She said, "I'm in college now." I said, "You are!?” And so she said "Yes, thanks to you." I said, "Why would…", She said, "Your teaching, the way you encouraged us." I said, “Thank you so much.” And so, I said, “Well, what do you do exactly there?" She said, "I'm studying to be a social worker." I said, "You are? Oh! I'm so happy for you." She said, "Are you still teaching?" I said "Yes, I'm still teaching." So anyway, she said, "You can stop by sometimes."

Henry: [00:03:18] I said—in my head, I was saying “I ain't stopping by no Picture the Homeless organization. [Laughter] I ain't got no time for that.” And she gave me a card… And we took—exchanged phone numbers. Because I said, "You can call me, you need any help, I'd gladly help you out." And so—then she went on her way, still looking young and cute as she always did in class. And so that's how I, you know… And then low and behold, a couple of years later… I remembered. After what had happened, and I had to go into the shelter, I remembered she had told me about this organization, and I said, “God works in funny ways.”

Henry: [00:04:17] I said… I was at the shelter, and someone said to me, “There's an organization, it's called the Coalition for the Homeless and they're located downtown.” I said, “That's not the organization she said—it was one of my students telling me about it—and she said that they fight. They get out there and help people, you know, work with… So, she said, “Coalition for the Homeless.” I said, "No, that’s not it". And so, I went through my papers and everything and found the card.

Henry: [00:05:02] And I called, and Frank Morales was in charge of the housing organization. [Smiles, laughter] And I was trying—because I had a bad experience in the shelter, and I was frightened, and he said, "Come on by here. We're located on Fordham in the Bronx.” I said, “Oh! I know where that is.” And I said that “I'm coming by.” But I didn't get by there until about three weeks later.

Henry: [00:05:43] And, he interviewed me… And I was skeptical, and I said, “Well…” I looked around. I saw there was a kitchen there, [smiles] I saw furniture there, I felt like I was at home. And then one of the women came out and she said, "We fix community dinners. Everybody takes turns in cooking." And she—I think it was Linda at the time. And I said, “_This is nice, I like this!” _

Henry: [00:06:28] And, I said, "Can you help me get housing?" [She said] "Well, we don't help you get housing, but we fight for you to get housing. [Laughter] We show you how to talk for yourself!” And so, I said, “That's nice. This is nice. And from that experience, that interview, I decided to do some time there.

Lewis: [00:06:58] So, you mentioned the kitchen, are there other things, either on your first visit or when you first started coming to Picture the Homeless, that struck you?

Henry: [00:07:09] I was observing that language that was spoken and I was surprised… The roughness that appeared, you know—with the men and this was just my first visit. And I was looking around—I liked the environment, but I was saying, “Whoa! This is rough. I don't deal with grownups! You know… Grownups don't have no respect.”

Henry: [00:07:48] So I—it was a Thursday, and so he said—Frank said, "Well, sit in on the meeting." I said, “I have a curfew, I have to get back. I'm in Queens and I have to travel. He said, "Alright then, you can sit for maybe a half an hour and observe the housing meeting, and you know, we'll give you a MetroCard if you need one." I said, “Sure!” So, Linda came out of the kitchen, and she said, "The spaghetti is finished. You can have some spaghetti if you’d like." I said, “No that's OK.” She said, "It’s not gonna hurt you!" [Laughs]

Henry: [00:08:43] And I said, “Yeah, by the time I get back I'll be late for my curfew anyway.” I said, “Okay.” Because they had placed me all the way out, moved me from the Bronx all the way out to Queens, and it upset me. And so now, I was still working, but they weren't aware that I was working. And so, I was getting up at four o'clock in the morning and leaving the building… After having a disagreement with the security, they didn't want to let me out of the building very early. I said, “Yet you want me out of the building by seven thirty, eight o'clock. [Imitates voice] "But where are you going so early in the morning?"

Henry: [00:09:28] So, one of the staff persons, he asked me, he said, "Ms. Henry, were you be going so early in the morning? You're an older person. Do you know how dangerous it is out there at the time of the morning that you're leaving this building? And then, what happens when it starts getting cold and you leaving?" I said, "I got to go to work." He said, "You’re working?" I said, "Yes, I just can't find an apartment!” I said, “I don't want nothing from nobody. Just help me get an apartment." He said, "What kind of work you do?" "I teach." He said, "You a teacher!?" I said, "It can happen to anybody, you know." And so, “Here, let me walk you to the bus stop." And he would walk me.

Lewis: Nice

Henry: [00:10:27] And then I just got to a point that… I wasn't afraid anymore, and I would up and go to the bus stop by myself. I knew exactly my assignment and everything. And so—well, I had a curfew at eight o'clock and I would say, “Why do I gotta be here at eight o'clock?!” You know, because it didn't give me enough time to do my lessons like I wanted. But I would get back there, and I'd sit on the end of the bed and do my lesson plans and other clients said, "What'd you be over there in the corner doing?!" I said, “I have work to do. You know, I don't want to be here.” Like that, they said, "Wow! Look at you." I said, "This is not fun. You don't have to be here. This is not someplace to make a living.” And you know some people understood and some, they got an attitude about it.

Henry: [00:11:35] However, I started coming to Picture the Homeless more regular.

Lewis: Why?

Henry: Because I was able to get some peace and quiet and get some sleep. And I can go on the porch and do my work and I wasn't far from the library, you know, and so... And they made me feel so welcome.

Henry: [00:12:10] And so, when I finally stopped working, I would go there. But I missed teaching so much, but I was trying to get housing. And they told me that I had to go to welfare—HRA, if I really wanted to get some help. And my caseworker, he could not believe that I was a teacher. He would give me such a hard time. The first caseworker come to find out, she was living in Parkchester in the Bronx, and you know, she had an attitude, [imitates voice] "You can’t be no teacher—and you’re in the shelter?" I said, "Do you want me to show you my identification?" And she said Mrs. Henry, "Why are you here then?" I said, "I'm trying to find housing… I can't—and I don't have enough money, and I'm struggling. I have my loans to pay off and other things." "Well don't you have other family members?" "That's how come I'm here. It's because of a family member, and this is what has happened. People are sick, people die, and so… This is where I'm at now." And so, I never told the whole story or anything because I felt it wasn’t their business. And I really don't feel that it's really anyone's business, until I met Lynn

Lewis. [Smiles]

Henry: [00:13:52] And she was like, she was, "Well… You need to speak up! You need to learn how to empower yourself because we can't get you housing." And I was like, "But you're Picture the Homeless!" She said, "No. We empower you. We teach you. We show you how to speak, and we show you how to speak to the government." And so, I said, “Oh wow! I got money; I'm just running short.” And n_obody _was telling me about any resources that I can go to get extra help. And so, I just started working more closely with the organization.

Henry: [00:14:55] And I learned that there were ways to get housing, but you had to have certain criteria and because I had a background in teaching and education… I just did not fit in, and I felt it was so unfair… And I wasn't a senior citizen, and I wasn't mentally ill, and I didn't have a handicap. _My handicap was lack of housing. And so, _many times, I found myself crying, and just saying, “God, please help me. What do you want me to do. What am I doing wrong?”

Henry: [00:15:52] And [pauses] one time, my niece, she let me come and stay with her… And I stayed until she wanted her man there, and I had to leave. And, but meanwhile, I was still in and out of the shelter system. They said, "Where you been? You lost your bed!" I said, "No big thing." "We done packed you up! We moving you again!" Ahhhh, but they moved me to Brooklyn. I said, “Oh Lord!” And I went to Picture the Homeless. "They moved me! It's not fair! I try to do right, and I come in there and they done packed up all my clothes and took half of my suits and stuff!" But—they said, "The city—that’s part of how the city—DHS wants you.” I said, “I shouldn’t ever have said anything to anybody about getting help.” And so, I was transferred to Brooklyn. I think I stayed out there the longest—with them… Still travelling back and forth to Picture the Homeless.

Lewis: And Picture the Homeless was where at that time?

Henry: [00:17:26] They was housed in—they was still up in the Bronx... And I was coming there, but fortunately they told me that I didn't have to be back until ten o'clock, and so it made it much easier for me, at that time. And they said to me, "You know Ms. Henry, you come, we don't know what you're doing and when we give you an appointment you don't show-up and you won't cooperate." I said, "Because I really just want you to find an apartment for me and I'll manage to pay for it myself!" “Well in that case, why don't you go to a broker?" I said, "I don't have the money!" And somebody told me about a “one-shot deal.” And if I can get that… I'll be okay. But at that time the City was having so much problems and everything, people coming from left and right for shelter and housing… And I got lost in the shuffle.

Lewis: [00:18:44] Arvernetta, you mentioned, you know—myself, and I'm sure other people, talking about, “You need to speak up.” But in what ways—you're a teacher, and in what ways were you, you talked a little bit about being a student at Picture the Homeless and things you learned. But in what ways were you a teacher at Picture at Homeless and in what ways was the education of other homeless people important to you?

Henry: [00:19:21] Education is very important to me. I see it as a way of survival. You don't always have to be in an institution of education—a school building. You can learn anywhere when you want to better yourself—improve your life. When—being at Picture the Homeless and seeing all this talent going to waste… Young people having the wisdom and knowledge on their life experience… However not taking it and using it to make some money! And I saw where they needed some strength. They needed to understand that they can gain an income by just speaking about what they've gone through—life experience and encourage other young people to not follow that route!

Henry: [00:20:54] And so, I said, “You just need to know—learn how to write and I can help do that. I can help teach you how to write.” [Imitates voices] "Oh I don't want to go back to school." I said, “It could be fun. Learning can be a lot of fun if you have the right person teaching you.” I've had a lot of students who have been informed that they will never amount to anything and never be anyone in life. However, I would get books to show that people came from humble means, and they managed to make themselves a better person! And so, I don't why you can't learn! I don't see why you don't want to learn! [Imitates voices] "Oh my teacher, she told me I was dumb, she called me stupid.” I said, “No teacher has the right to say things like that. Teachers that belittle children, they don't have no respect for themselves.”

Henry: [00:22:08] And so, I went to people at Picture the Homeless, and I started saying, “I can teach. I can help people.” And so, Sam Miller said, "If you can write a curriculum, that would work. I said, “Write a curriculum!” I said, “Okay, if you help me, we can work this together.” And so, Sam and I and a couple of others, we wrote the curriculum. And we named … We ended up having an Academy, called the Picture the Homeless Academy and it was focused on helping people learn how to write, helping people learn how to read. And I would work with these adults and help them see the good side of themselves, although they'd been through a lot and everything… I would get books, show them stories, and tell them about people that, you know, Napoleon, and other authors, that had learning disabilities and how they managed! And they would follow through and get the book.

Henry: [00:23:57] I had one—Marcus, kept saying that he had a learning disability and I kept saying, “No you don't! Ain't nothing wrong with you! You can do it.” [Imitating Marcus] “Well, my mother said…” “I don't care what your mother said because I’m looking at you and you’re working as a security officer and on top of that you’re doing this marketing plan, so I know you got a brain.” And he would get mad at me! “You don’t—you're so mean!" And I said, “Marcus that's because I love you, I care, and I don't want you to waste your life! And you have a chance to do something with it.” And, then there was another one, a couple of others! And when they saw that they could do something… I would just do the best I could to help them.

Lewis: [00:24:51] What were some of the other things that were covered, or taught in the Organizing Academy?

Henry: [00:25:01] We had an opportunity to learn how to write letters to politicians... To put down _why _we needed to be heard. How to run a campaign and work it to the advantage that it would reflect the need _of the people, not the politician, _and to focus on how to write a policy. Sam Miller, he taught us how to do the ins and outs of writing policies and get the attention of the politicians and the lawmakers and how their parts—how played a very important part of the political circle. We learned how to be activists. Because that's what we were, because we was going against the grain.

Henry: [00:26:19] We did not believe in placating the system of housing. [Imitating voices] "They want to be homeless. The people don't care about anything." Because that was the furthest thing from the truth! _I know that I didn't like being homeless. _I knew, as a fact, that the mistreatment in the shelter system was devastating to children as well as adults, and so… We focused on how to do surveys—because see, community organization was not my forte! My thing was teaching. But being at Picture the Homeless, it was very important that we get involved in order to understand the process of the system. And if you didn't get involved, then you would be just part of the system, accepting what was happening to you! And that was the furthest thing from the truth!

Henry: [00:27:45] And so, we learned how to fight back… How to write chants… How to stand up to the government and say, “We're human beings. We're not a piece of meat that you can shuffle from place to place. We're not your commodity! We don't believe that you have the right to keep us out of these vacant houses that … I know for a fact is vacant.” And we learned how to go around and search for vacant property. We learned how to… Log property and research property and find out who was the landlords. Who owns this property? Why this property has been vacant so long?

Henry: [00:28:52] And at the same time… Members—because this was a member led organization, members was learning how _to lead… _How to stand up… And fight back. We learned what it—the importance of speaking to the Senator, or the politician—and their role. When they wouldn't listen… We had leaders that would show us how we could go out and grab their attention, through the public eye and how to get the media's attention… And what to say and not be tricked. Because the media would allow you to be interviewed and we would learn these interviewing techniques, and at the same time learn to take that interview and use it to the advantage of the homeless population.  
Lewis: Hmmmmm.

Henry: [00:30:09] We learned so much at Picture the Homeless—going to Albany, speaking, rallying, and working with others—other organizations... How to be security. I just recently did a health rally with my Church, and I said, “I know how to do security. I know how to chant.” [Smiles] I said, “I can carry a banner.” [Smiles] They was looking at, “Ms. Henry!”

Henry: [00:30:48] [Long pause] I have to say—Picture the Homeless has done a lot for me. I have travelled across the world through having people from other countries come into our organization, speaking about the homeless plight and how—they would like to see how Picture the Homeless handled it, and how they were able to get the government to listen to them. I'm talking about countries like South Africa, Germany, England. Different places coming to our country, coming to our organization, and interviewing us and asking questions, and we are able to impart that wisdom and knowledge that we learned from the leaders at Picture the Homeless!

Lewis: [00:32:08] And when you say leaders who do you mean? I don't necessarily mean name names, but…

Henry: [00:32:15] The staff… Sometimes it was other members that was there—and people that had experience, that would come and give us a talk… Speak to us about how to do something. And in turn, we would take that and incorporate it into our organization—map it out, draft it and use it for our benefit.

Lewis: Is there a—is there a time, or a story where you can share that you did something through Picture the Homeless that you never thought you would do? [Smiles and laughter] I see you laughing!

Henry: [00:33:18] There are many stories! When this particular party said that there was no vacant property... And, they said, “There isn't _any _vacant property available for the homeless population. That's why you have to be in the shelter system.” Well, she was talking to the wrong group of members!

Henry: [00:33:58] I never thought I would be sleeping out, in the rain, on the ground, on an air mattress, camping out… Because this person owned this building and it had been vacant for many, many, many—many years, in a very popular district. And we called the media, we called other organizations that supported us, and I said, “I wanted to do something new.” And this was something exciting and new to me. I said, “I always liked camping!” [Laughter] But this—this was different. This was at night in the city street! I had so much fun, and people came and asked us _why _we were doing this.

Henry: [00:35:18] This campaign led to… Bloombergville.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmm. That's right.

Henry: Because of our camping out, other organizations were saying, “How can we do something like this.” And we were called in—we went to a couple of meetings and these organizations, they said, “Tell us how we can do this.” We—we met downtown and some leaders from other places… Some wasn't from New York. They didn't know the ins and outs of New York City. However, they felt that they could be some support, and we started this rally called Bloombergville, and I said, “Well, I can't do that!”

Lewis: Do what?

Henry: [00:36:45] Stay out and protest—because I work for the Department of Education. [Laughs] But, you have a right! And right now, you're homeless and maybe they see even a teacher can become homeless, maybe the mayor will listen! And so, I participated in that rally. It was a beautiful experience. Yes, I got some flak from people that knew me, especially at the church. I said, “It's my right.” And they didn't know I was homeless at the time; church did not know.

Lewis: Is that how they found out?

Henry: [00:37:46] They was wondering why I was carrying all this stuff, back and forth. And then finally, after several years—many years, I finally owned up to it.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmmm.

Henry: [00:38:01] And, yeah… But Bloombergville had, you know… Been full force turned into Zuccotti Park.

Lewis: Yeah, Occupy.

Henry: Occupy Wall Street. And people don't realize, it really stemmed from Picture the Homeless.

Lewis: [00:38:25] Tell me about… Because sleeping on the street in the rain to folks might not sound fun, and with all the ambivalence leading up to it… What parts of that were fun?

Henry: [00:38:45] We gained respect from the people that was in the community. Because they were educated… They found out who owned that building and they was surprised. And also, they opened up their store to us, and they brought us food! Oh my! We had so much food! They allowed us to use their establishment, to—go in and wash up, and go to the bathroom. When they understood why we were out there and realized that [imitating voices] “Well all these people, they are not bad people! They're just asking for housing!” And when we would go to the streets and stay overnight… It brought attention to the main populations to say, “We have to get involved. We may not have to stay overnight, but we're going to support you.” And this was… Oh! Doing those chants—people from out of state would get on our rally line and march with us.

Henry: [00:40:45] People that was banking in those banks and found out that they were charging us to cash a public assistance check—they came right along with us and said, "That's not right! We gotta do something about this!"

Henry: [00:41:04] So yes... It became something that was important and vital for history. Something that I can look back and say, “I was a part of this.” It reminded me of when I marched to Washington, D.C. with Dr. Martin Luther King, and how we fought for civil rights. _It brought back good memories _and I never thought that I would be doing this at an adult age. But I guess I've been an activist all my life, I just didn't realize it. [Smiles]

Lewis: I have so many questions I want to ask you but…

Henry: You gotta learn to write them down, Lynn.

Lewis: No, I want to flow with you. We’re flowing… Are you a New Yorker?

Henry: [00:42:10] Straight, New Yorker—born, raised, New York.

Lewis: Alright.

Henry: So, when people ask me—and try and tell me about my City, I said, “You can't tell me about my city—because you wasn't here. When you get—you walked on that grass in NYCHA, your parents got a ten dollar fine. Do you know what ten dollars was like back then? That was like a hundred dollars! And you got a spanking. A good punishment!” Yes, I'm a New Yorker. I was born in Harlem, raised up in the Bronx. I had a decent family—yes!

Henry: [00:42:55] I knew what it was to go to New York City public schools. And I was blessed! I got a good education, and I knew that there were teachers that didn't care and there was teachers that made us go to school on Saturday, to make sure you improved in your reading and writing, and your mathematics. That came to my attention on Tuesday when I was doing a life roadmap. And I recall having to get up on Saturday morning to go to the PAL so I could meet Ms. Tisdale so she could help me with my reading. Instead of sleeping late, my mother and father, “Get up, get up, let's go!” And I’d—we’d have to go. I wasn't by myself. It was quite a bit of us. But she cared that much for us, she would work with us on Saturdays.

Lewis: [00:44:16] Who did you go on the marches—the civil rights marches with? Who’d you go with—you must have been a child then.

Henry: [ 00:44:27] With, How You Act. There was an organization called How You Act, in Harlem. And this was my first job for summer. I had a supervisor by the name of Reggie Butts, Reginald Butts and he was into… He was a southerner, and he landed a job supervising all the summer youth at—in Harlem. And we would have to meet during—after we'd get off from work we would have to meet with him, and he would question us about what we learned that day, working with the children, and so forth. And then, at that time, we was having protests—protests and marches in Harlem and around New York City. And I was fortunate, I was going to a church called Abyssinia Baptist Church.

Henry: [00:45:37] And… We was blessed to be able to get these textbooks called Black History. And he would have us to read a chapter and test us on the chapter. And he said, “We are going to Washington DC." And, I said… [Smiling] All I could think about was my boyfriend! [Laughter] We would be able to be on the bus, and I could be with my boyfriend. on the bus. That's why I wanted to go. I didn't understand at first how much—how important, and that we was making history.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmmm.

Henry: [00:46:29] And I had already met Dr. King! I had the opportunity to meet Dr. King and shake his hand through the church. But I didn’t know he was so important. And Cassius Clay—which, you know... And these important people! I wasn’t really… Because I was so young, and it was all about having some money in my pocket and knowing how to save money so I could buy some school clothes that_ I wanted_, that my parents [laughter] wouldn't be able to say anything about. [Smiles] So, it was that year, that time, that I was able to go on the march.

Henry: [00:47:16] At… I got the employment through my aunt. She told me to put my age up [laughs]. She said, "I'll take care of the paperwork. Just tell them—tell them you're fourteen.” And at that time, I wasn't.

Lewis: How old were you?

Henry: I was—I think at that time I was twelve. But I wanted some money, and my parents were struggling, so you know. And we worked it out. But through Reginald Butts, the supervisor, he taught us a lot, a lot of information, and school became very, very important.

Lewis: [00:47:59] It sounds like Mr. Butts, and Ms. Tisdale who you mentioned, that you've had a lot of adults, when you were younger in your life…

Henry: Yes!

Lewis: That went out of their way.

Henry: Mm-Hmmmmm.

Lewis: Was that something that was fairly common in your childhood?

Henry: Yes! You see, when I was growing up, it was always, [imitates voices] "You do what I say. I told you to go in there and mop up that floor." “But I didn't put it down there!” "You talking back to me?" [snaps fingers] It was no second thing. You got popped right in your mouth.

Lewis: Ouch.

Henry: [00:48:49] That's right. And so, that adage of it takes a village to raise a child was very, very important. It was all about love and educating the child and working with them. If your parent didn't know how to do something, it would be somebody else that could teach. And then you would take that knowledge and share it at home, with others. Now I was fortunate. My mother finished high school. My grandmother on my maternal side went to college. And my grandfather on my maternal side when to college. And so, education was important because my grandmother would stress how she had learned so many different languages, and she studied Pharmacology. And so, but because she was blessed, my granddad didn't let her work, because he owned his own business.

Lewis: What kind of business did he have?

Henry: [00:50:12] He was a barber… He was a barber and he graduated from college, and he was a businessman, and he was a Native American.

Lewis: Where was his barber shop?

Henry: In Harlem. It started… First it was in Pensacola… No it was in Alabama, when they graduated from college they lived in Alabama. And so, my great grandmother owned property. She was German, and Jewish.

Lewis: And then your grandparents came to New York—do you know about when?

Henry: Yeah… 1940… I think it was—no, no, no—step back—about 1938, something like that. My mother said they was still in school, and my youngest uncle hadn't been born yet. And we was going through the Depression, that's why they came to New York because they got caught in the Depression at that time, you know—in the United States.

Lewis: [00:51:28] So, when you talk about your community, what do you think of? Are you talking about a physical place? Are you talking about a certain kind of folks?

Henry: [ 00:51:44] We… Back then, family was very important, and... Our community was where you lived.

Lewis: Okay.

Henry: And, we—because we was in a housing development, [New York City Housing Authority, NYCHA], you had people of many different backgrounds. A lot was from the war— military, and I lived up on a—I lived in a fourteen-floor development. And on that floor, we had eight different apartments, and each apartment had three bedrooms. And back then, girls were not allowed to sleep with boys in the same room. And so, tenement buildings was different from project buildings. The girls had to have their own room and the boys had to have their own room. And so, I was fortunate to have my own bedroom and my brothers slept in the same room.

Henry: [00:53:04] And in that community, we had police officers that practically knew everybody that was in the development! So, when this Stop and Frisk stuff—thing started happening in New York City, it was something like, “Where is this coming from?! These officers don't even know us! They don't even live in our community!” And it took, you know… You would hear people of my age say, "They need to go back to the old way! We didn't have police officers shooting children in the back. Even though we was coming up in the civil rights movement and everything, they had respect.”

Henry: [00:53:57] And so… My community was my housing development, and the schools and hospitals and the stores. Man, we had a store across the street from the project, Mr. Adolf… We were right across the street and at that time soda bottles—you get ten soda bottles you'd got fifty cents, you're rich! [Laughter] You could buy _all _the candy you wanted! Candy was two cents, one penny... So, you get ready to go to school and you had a bag full of candy [smiles] to share with everybody in the class. [Laughs]

Lewis: [00:54:45] Were you the only girl in your family?

Henry: [Laughing] I was the first one.

Lewis: You're the oldest?

Henry: [Still laughing] Yes. Yes. I was the first grandchild…

Lewis: Oh okay.

Henry: You know.

Lewis: Then you got a lot of love.

Henry: [Smiling] And so... My parents was living in Harlem. My mother said they never wanted for anything. All they had to do was push me around the block because I was a beautiful baby and people would just stop and say, "Bless her, bless her…" [Making had motions as if she were putting something down] Putting the money in the carriage. [Laughing]

Lewis: Well, you are still beautiful.

Henry: [00:55:36] Well, I don't think so now, you know. But, when I think about community, that's why the project that we have—community land trusts, it reminds me of that kind of housing and that only one third of your income went for housing and then... That's why when I came to Picture the Homeless, and a couple of years later—and we visit Cooper Square, it just brought back memories and how important it is to have family and to be together.

Henry: [00:56:33] But things changed—with women's liberation. That took a lot from us. And we didn't even realize how blessed we were then, and we wanted to be involved. We wanted to, [imitates voice] “Oh! Be free!” But at the same time, we was tearing down family values because we were already blessed keeping our families together, and so forth. When I stop to think… I'm older now, and I see the mistakes we made and why children today are _struggling _and how come they hurt, and they say, “Parents don't care.” “Why, why are we in the shelter mommy. Why? What did you do?” Things like that, and so... And when I visit shelters—family shelters, and I see and hear… And I think back, you know it hurts to see children… You know, I'm not about grown-ups. I don't like grown-ups.

Lewis: [Laughing]

Henry: Put this on tape. I don't like grownups _because grownups know, _they was a child once, and the pain—why would you inflict that on your child? And so—you stop, and you think. Don't blame it all on society. Let's look at the truth. You know, if you don't go to vote, if you don't get involved, then you're heading for trouble.

Henry: [00:58:49] An educated person, is the best person for life. No matter what type of education you're receiving. Even if you're a number runner, you—that means you know mathematics! [Smiling] And when you hit that number, you take that money home to your woman and say, "Look, I just hit for five hundred dollars, we movin’ outta this flat!” And take that five hundred dollars and get something better! You buy them kids some clothes; you get some food.” Because there wasn't no food stamps, back then and, “Welfare don't have to know about it.” But when the caseworker would come around [imitating voice], "How'd you get that TV? Kids got new shoes." You know.

Henry: [00:59:48] But when we stop to think, people fail because of lack of knowledge! Lack of education! And they don't want to listen to older people. I learned... I sat under older people and that's how I got the knowledge that I have—because I enjoy old adults. And still today, at my own age—and I'm a senior citizen, I will sit down and listen to an older person AND a young person, because they got the technology, and so they teach. And so, I say, “I can learn. I'm ready.”

Lewis: It sounds like you are very comfortable being a teacher and a student.

Henry: I enjoy learning.

Lewis: [01:00:51] I'm going to ask you to go back… You said mentioned something about chants. Do you remember any of these chants, [smiles] that… Or do you have any that you really like?

Henry: When I was a child, civil rights?

Lewis: When you were a child, from Picture the Homeless

Henry: [Chants] “This is what democracy looks like/tell me what democracy looks like!” [louder] “This is what democracy looks like!/Tell me what democracy looks like!” I can… “Housing is a Human Right/Housing is a Human Right!” “No Housing No Peace, No Housing No Peace!” “Justice—what do we want? Justice—when do we want it? NOOOWWW! What do we want? Justice!” And then with the civil rights, when I did the civil rights, “Peace, Peace—we want justice! Peace, Peace—we want justice, Peace, Peace!” And then we had the songs, the civil rights songs and so forth. And then with the chants that we do—it motivates people, it gets them involved. It's not like you're working, but you're participating, and you're being heard. And when I learn chants, I retain the history, and it works for me.

Lewis: We're gonna wrap up soon.

Henry: Okay.

Lewis: I wanted to ask you if there's any other thoughts that have come up, or memories that you want to share, for this interview and hopefully we're going to do this again, have another follow up.

Henry: [01:03:12] I hope so Lynn. [Long pause] We… When I think about homelessness… And when I see all the devastation that has taken place these past three weeks with these hurricanes... And all the families that had homes _paid for! _Not just having a mortgage on it, but paid for… In Texas, in Louisiana, in Puerto Rico, in Florida, in Georgia, in Mexico.

Henry: [01:04:24] And I think about the influx of people coming to the United States and to New York City, as the first place. I see the greed of humanity. I see people snatching and taking, to make a buck and not having the appreciation of getting the support but doing what they can to survive… Selling drugs, illegal cigarettes, marketing and so forth… But looking at jobs and saying, “I don't want that because I'm not going to be making $100,000 a year.”

Henry: [01:05:48] I question myself, “Am I going to be pushed out on the street because I'm an older person? Am I going to be forced out because a younger person needs someplace to live?”

Lewis: You mean from the shelter?

Henry: From the shelter, or either if I rent a room—from the room, because the person can get more money for it.

Lewis: Yeah, yeah…

Henry: [01:06:32] We need community land trusts, like we need it yesterday—yesteryear, and fast.
 
END of INTERVIEW