Andres Perez

Lewis: [00:00:00] Good afternoon.

Perez: Good afternoon.

Lewis: I’m Lynn Lewis, and I’m interviewing Andres Perez for the Picture the Homeless Oral History Project and it is August 7, 2019, and we’re in East Harlem. Hi, Andres.

Perez: Hi. How are you doing?

Lewis: I’m wonderful. I’m very happy to see you, and I’m happy that we’re going to get this interview done.

Perez: Oh, I’m so happy to be here and to do this interview.

Lewis: [00:00:30] So, first we’re going to talk a little bit about—you know, get to know Andres a little bit—where you’re from, and stuff. So where—where did you grow up, Andres?

Perez: I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. I started in the East New York section of Brooklyn. From there—in my teenager years, I moved to the Bronx, and we lived in the Bronx for the duration of maybe fifteen years probably, when I was younger. After that, my mother moved on—in the upper part of the Bronx, and I became homeless at that time. From there, I moved to my mother, and she was—stayed for a while and she was sick for some amount of years, and eventually she had passed away.

Perez: [00:01:39] I had my first child… And after a couple of years, we spent time in the shelter system. We couldn’t stay with my mother—at her old house after she passed away… We went to the shelter. From there, we decided to start going—checking out, different parks and places like that. So we ran—met this organization called CVH [Community Voices Heard]. They were having different types of things going on, and we became a part of that.

Perez: [00:02:22] One day, we went to an action with them and all of a sudden, my son had pointed out a gentleman from another organization called Picture the Homeless. And my son somehow got attached to him. He had a skateboard, and he got attached to this—this person. He was an organizer. He was a civil rights organizer. His name was Brandon King. And so, he—my son walked me over to him to get acquainted, so we had this conversation….

INTERRUPTION: Cell phone rings and we take a small break. When we pick back up, we begin with his early life.

Perez: [00:02:59] Alright, so going back—my earlier life… Back in my early life, I used to be involved with this organization called the Police Athletic League. That’s where I got to be able to learn all my stuff—like in sports. I was involved in sports. I was a sports coordinator. And then from there, I decided to move a little more into maintenance and I was a custodian at the time. Then my—there was a gentleman, he was like my stepfather. He used to take care of me and send me to vocational schools and stuff, so I could learn how to do like boilers and refrigeration and air conditioners, stuff like that. I took some classes and then about—about a year after that, I started working for NYCHA [New York City Housing Authority]. I’ve been working for over twenty, I’d say almost twenty-seven years and I got sick, and I had to step down, because I had a chronic back—what’s it called?

Lewis: A herniated disk?

Perez: Herniated disk.

Lewis: Oh, that’s terrible.

Perez: Herniated disk, and I couldn’t work anymore after that.

Lewis: [00:04:27] Mmmm. Let me ask you a little bit… I’m going to go back a little bit, so we really get to know you a little better. You lived in East New York until you were a teenager?

Perez: I lived there until I was about seven, eight years old.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmm. And then y’all moved to the Bronx?

Perez: Then we moved to the Bronx.

Lewis: Do you mind sharing when you were born, what year?

Perez: I was born May 26, 1965.

Lewis: Okay. So, you moved to the South Bronx in the early seventies?

Perez: Yes, early seventies.

Lewis: What part of the Bronx?

Perez: South Bronx.

Lewis: Like—what neighborhood?

Perez: It was at Fox Street. Fox Street, on 156th and Fox—between 156th and Longwood, actually.

Lewis: [00:05:15] Wow. What was happening in that neighborhood at the time?

Perez: Oh, during that time, it was drugs predominantly. It was heroin at first and then after that, it became crack. Crack it was mostly… Most of the people who lived around the neighborhood… They had the drug gangs, they had the—they had the drug wars and everything going on there. So, we were accustomed to all of that. But we made it out there. I mean, we did what we had to do and stayed away from what we had to do and stuff like that.

Lewis: [00:05:49] And you lived with your mom and your stepdad?

Perez: No, we lived with my mother and my father, at the time.

Lewis: Okay.

Perez: My stepdad was when I started with the PAL, when I—I was a bad kid then when I was young and happily—I happened to stumble over at the PAL, which was about a block away from where I lived. It was on Beck Street. I happened to go in there, and he kind of changed my behavior in a way, because I was a bad kid. I was running around just doing devious things when I was young and everything... And he was kind of like was a mentor as well, and picked me up and sent me to a lot of vocational schools and stuff like that, helped me out and everything, to make sure I’d go on the right track and stay out of trouble, and that’s how I kept myself—not going out… I don’t have a criminal record or anything and I’ve never hardly been arrested except for like some minor stuff, but nothing major. So, I got a clean record—so I’m good. And that’s about it.

Lewis: [00:06:51] And then… Something I learned about you when we were doing security for an action, the Grito de Lares action here in East Harlem. I had never heard you speak Spanish. [Smiles] And then we were on the security team together and Carlito Rovira, who was a Young Lord, was asking everybody their name, and you spoke—you answered in Spanish. And so, tell me about your family background. You’re Puerto Rican and—

Perez: My mother is from Thomasville, Alabama. My father is from Carolina, Puerto Rico. Which, I’ve been there when I was young too, when I was a young kid. I’ve been out there a couple times. I met my grandmother on my father’s side. I speak Spanish not as fluently, but I understand Spanish very good, and I can read and write Spanish. But my younger sisters, all of them, they all speak Spanish very fluently and everything. And I just—I don’t know but some way, me and my younger brother are the only two that can read and write and understand  Spanish, but we have a problem of… Actually, translating actually is our problem. Because I don’t know why… I need to just go back to school and just brush up more. Then I can speak it more fluently. But you can talk Spanish to me, and I’ll understand what you’re saying. So…

Lewis: [00:08:13] And… Was that area of the Bronx—was it heavily Puerto Rican and African American? Or, what was it like there when you were a kid?

Perez: Oh, back then—back then it was Puerto Ricans, Black, and Jamaican, I believe it was, back in those days. There was very slightly amount of Jamaicans, but it was mostly Black and Puerto Ricans at that time, and Dominicans. My mistake. Dominicans. They started to come in that early. They were coming out a lot. We got along until the—when the drugs started. The drug lords or the drug gangs or whatever, they started coming out and they were fighting over territory, so... We managed to be away from that and not be involved with that. It’s just the ones who interacted with the drugs, that’s were the ones that were the problem... Until years later, it started to clear up.

Lewis: [00:09:15] During that period in the seventies, there were a lot of abandoned buildings in the Bronx.

Perez: Oh, yes. There was, it was a whole lot. Right on the same block where I used to live there were at least two, one on each side of the street. It was like that for about many years before they actually did something about them.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmm. And did—when you were growing up, do you remember, you know—discussing that with either your friends—conditions in the neighborhood—or with your family? Were there family conversations about housing and concerns about housing?

Perez: [00:09:54] At that time, when I was young, we really—we didn’t understand about what abandoned buildings, what that was about. But we knew that—at that time, in those years—they were burning down buildings. We knew there was—that that was a thing about the Bronx. The Bronx was always called—what do you call it? A building that had been burned down or has been shut down or whatever, or condemned for—what do you call it? Or gated up with some kind of tin plate on there, with some kind of design on­—what do you call it—make it look like it was a lively building but

Perez: [00:10:32] But at that time, I didn’t ever understand the reasons why a building would sit there dilapidated like that or sit there boarded up for a period of years, with no one living in there. When meantime, where I’m growing up—there’s a whole bunch of us living in a two-bedroom apartment all cluttered up, and that’s how most families was living there in the neighborhood and there were not enough apartments for people to have at that time. But I didn’t know so much about it until I got a part of Picture the Homeless, and that’s when I started to learn more—what it’s about.
 
Lewis: [00:11:07] What did… What were people saying about the—you said people were talking about the buildings burning. What kinds of things were people saying?

Perez: We was—I was, at that time… We always thought that they were burning them down purposely to get the insurance money. Or, we—every time this was happening, they were trying to move tenants out so they can get the higher rent and stuff. They would just force the tenants, or they would offer them or bribe them with different amount of money so… To move out. These are things that were happening back then, as I can recall them… But never really understanding why, at that time. It was just, I noticed that that was happening but—like I say, when—I guess when I got—in later years, when I got involved with Picture the Homeless, that’s when I started to learn more about what’s going on with that.

Lewis: And you certainly did a lot of work on that. We’re going to get to that because you did a lot of really—

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: —important, brave work on that issue.

Lewis: [00:12:13] Did you learn your love of cooking from one of your parents?

Perez: Yes. My mother.

Lewis: Tell me about that.

Perez: My mother was… I mean, she could have opened up her own business. She can cook southern food, she can cook Spanish food, she can cook Jamaican food, and she knew how to cook Italian food. So, my mother was like a—actually a cookbook, you’d say. And we had learned—when we was younger—we all, myself, and my siblings—we all had to take turns at home. This was a thing that we had to do. Everybody would cook a meal, from Monday to Friday. Weekends, it was a treat for us, but during Monday through Friday, everybody had a turn to go in that kitchen and cook a meal—because everybody had to eat each other’s meal. So, if one messed up, the others was complaining. So, the next time I cook, you’re going to get it messed up too [smiles] so you got to make sure you cook the food good, and follow Mom’s—how she does it, because she teaches one time. She’ll cook the first meal… And we pick a meal, and she teaches us, “This is how you—this is what you got to do and not do.” And you had to follow her! And that’s how we learned how to actually cook.

Perez: [00:13:27] And to… One day I was… My stepfather, he sent me to culinary school. I went to culinary school for three years, learning how to cook different dishes and everything. And from there, I got my certification to be a chef after an amount of years, and I’ve been cooking ever since then. And every time someone wants a dish or something—they’ll call me, and I’ll just plop it up and throw something together and bring it to them. My favorite thing was the pies. My mother had the pies. It was her recipe and before she—before she passed away, we were able to get a hold of her recipes for all the dishes—and including the pies, and the cakes and custards she used to do. My mother, she was a good… She was a chef actually and she taught us well.

Lewis: That’s wonderful, because you are a wonderful cook, and you always volunteer to cook.

Perez: Mm-Hmmm.

Lewis: And so, I always wondered where that came from. [Smiles]

Perez: [00:14:29] My mother. She was the one that actually... If it hadn’t been for her putting that pressure, “You’re going to learn… No woman don’t want no man that can’t cook.” [Smiles] I always thought it was the other way. The wife, I mean the woman—you were supposed to have a woman... She said, “No, don’t think like that, because a woman also wants—sometimes wants a break, and you got to get in that kitchen.” I said, “Okay.” [Laughs] And I learned from there.

Lewis: [00:14:53] What was her name?

Perez: Mary Stubbs.

Lewis: And your dad?

Perez: Same as me, Andres Perez. [Repeats name in Spanish] Andrés Pérez.
 
Lewis: Andrés _Pérez. _Are you the oldest?

Perez: No, I’m the middle child.

Lewis: Oh, but you’re the junior?

Perez: There’s thirteen of us.

Lewis: Thirteen children? [Smiles]

Perez: Thirteen of us, yeah. [Laughs]

Lewis: In a two-bedroom apartment?

Perez: [00:15:12] No, at that time there was not thirteen. It was ten of us at the apartment at the time.

Lewis: Well, that’s enough. [Laughter] That’s a lot.

Perez: Yeah, it was ten of us, of thirteen. The other three—one was in Puerto Rico, and the other two was down south at the time.

Lewis: So, I can imagine on a really hot summer night, ten kids and the parents in a two-bedroom apartment, it must have been pretty

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: hot some nights.

Perez: Yeah, yes. It was real bad back then I think, but we made it. We made it. Until finally one time, we did get a three-bedroom in a later amount of years. But we first started with the two-bedroom apartment. And the boys stayed in the living room, the girls had their room, and my mother had her room. So, I mean—we managed. We made things manageable, in that we were always comfortable and everything. I mean, it was a big apartment too. It was a big living room. The bedrooms were big. We had two master bathrooms. I mean, master and you know—another  bathroom. So I mean, it was okay. We made things manageable, and we lived comfortably.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmm. Those—some of those Bronx apartments are so nice and big.

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: [00:16:24] You had a lot younger brothers and sisters, too.

Perez: Yes. I have a whole lot of brothers—younger brothers and sisters. So, I’m like actually the one in the middle and I got maybe about three or four older than me—older sisters and brothers older than me. So I have at least about five, six younger than me and about—yeah, three to four older than me. So I’m like, directly in the middle, actually.

Lewis: [00:16:46] So, knowing you as an adult and the way that you—you treat people… You’re very nurturing. Do you think that, you know—do you have a story you could share about ways that you helped out around the house with your younger brothers and sisters?

Perez: Actually—my younger sisters… I was not just the big brother. I was like the father figure for all of my younger sisters. I made sure I kept them in—what do you call it? All of my younger sisters stayed—went to high school, finished high school, went to college, and half of them… Some of them got their masters and their bachelor’s degrees and everything—and they’re doing good and everything. Maybe one or two of them is not doing too good—they have some medical problems… But they got their education. That’s the main thing. After that, my youngest sister… I raised—I raised some of my nephews and nieces a couple of times. I had my nieces for about five years, later down the line. And one of my nephews, I raised him for about three years, in the household when it was me and my son—and we managed too. So we—when anybody have a problem, we always switch up and help each other out. So us siblings, we still, up to this day we still interact with each other on certain things—gatherings, and stuff like that.

Lewis: [00:18:14] That’s beautiful. And then at some point—when your mom moved to the North Bronx, how old were you?

Perez: When she was… About eleven—twelve years old, I believe.

Lewis: You were eleven or twelve?

Perez: Between eleven and twelve, I think it was. I can’t recall, but I think that’s how old I was

Lewis: Okay.

Perez: at the time.

Lewis: So, you were still a kid.

Perez: Yeah, I was still a kid. Yeah.

Lewis: [00:18:36] And then you moved to the—to the North Bronx with your mom?

Perez: Yes. Yes—until I moved out, for a period of time. I moved out—I was about thirteen, I think, thirteen or fourteen—I moved out. About sixteen that’s—about sixteen, that’s when I started working for NYCHA, New York City Housing Authority. I worked for them a couple years and then all of a sudden… I couldn’t afford… I mean, rent was so high, I couldn’t afford to live in the apartment I was staying at—so I became homeless. I became street homeless. I started living in the street then.

Lewis: How old were you then?

Perez: [00:19:16] I was about… That time, I was my—twenty, early twenties. Yeah, I was street homeless then. That’s when I—at that time, I got involved with a couple other friends and we took over—we had a city building—and we lived there for a while.

Lewis: So, you were squatting a city building

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: with some friends?

Perez: Yes. We were squatting a city building for a while.

Lewis: In the Bronx?

Perez: In the Bronx, yes.

Lewis: What was that like?

Perez: [00:19:45] I mean, it was comfortable—because we fixed it up for us to stay there for a period. We held it down for a while, until we couldn’t keep the building too long, because we was younger then, we didn’t know the—how to hold it. We held it down quite a while, though but...

Lewis: How long?

Perez: Close to ten years, we had it. We had the building for close to ten years. But it’s after that… It’s keeping up, I guess—the taxes and the liens, and all the other stuff. We didn’t know that—that information and how that goes, and we couldn’t pay that, and they had to snatch it back and we left from there.

Lewis: Where was that building?

Perez: Oh, my God. This is… I can’t recall right now. It’s too many years ago.

Lewis: But in the Bronx?

Perez: It’s in the Bronx, yes.

Lewis: South Bronx?

Perez: South Bronx, yes.

Lewis: [00:20:35] Were there a bunch of other people, or were there other people doing that as well? Where did you get the idea for doing that?

Perez: It just got to a point that I couldn’t stay in this. I was… When I was living homeless in the street, I was riding the subway system, or I would stay… I couldn’t see myself living like that—bad like that. I—me… I would say, “I want to be somewhere indoors.” So, when somebody came up to me, and “Oh, we got an idea. We can get in this building.” I said, “How do you get the courage and all to do that… That sounds… But—but I was scared at first, I mean, but I was looking at their efforts… That I have to find a place to live and so—I mean, I can’t stay living in the street. I was—feared being in the street so, I decided to stay there instead.

Lewis: [00:21:23] Tell—tell me a story about what it was like staying in the street, so—so people really get a good picture of that.

Perez: Actually, when I first started, I started this—sleeping on the stairs in the buildings and stuff like that. I’d go up to the rooftop and I had my blanket, or whatever—the bags and stuff. I started that, but then it got to a point, I was too scared and everything… Because I didn’t know what… I might get caught by the cops and I didn’t… Then I started sleeping on the train. I started riding the trains for a while back and forth on the longest line that takes a long time, to kill a lot of time. So I rode the train for a while.

Perez: [00:22:05] And then, I just couldn’t do it anymore. I seen—it just got to a point that I was starting getting sick and everything so... My mother invited me back to her home, so I just finally went back home to my mother and everything and I stood with her until, like I mentioned, she got sick and everything, until she passed away.

Perez: [00:22:25] And during that time, I had my son—my last son, and we ended up in the shelter system and so, I had a pretty rough life until we—from there we left out the shelter system after about two years. We moved into the Bronx, up there on Eastchester Road and we lived there for about five years. The first two years—the first two years was okay, and then after that, the next five years afterwards, it was a disaster. The landlord, she went from a sweet old lady into a horrible witchy-type lady. She had us living in this apartment for five years with no heat! And she didn’t do no—hardly no repairs. I went to the city. I went to the courts. I did whatever. I did everything possible that I possibly can do, and nothing happened! There were freak snowstorms, bad snowstorms we had at that time, and we had to live in the apartment with no heat in those conditions, so… It was warmer outside than it was in our apartment, actually so… And that was the choice in life for us.

Lewis: That was when the Picture the Homeless office was in the Bronx,

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: wasn’t it?

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: [00:23:50] So, you and your friends held down a squat for ten years?

Perez: Yeah, about ten years.

Lewis: What did you learn by doing that?

Perez: At the time, the main parts I learned is how to put electricity in the building, was one. Of course, there was no electricity in there. I learned how to get some kind of water running up in there. We learned how to fix it up to live comfortably, like it was a regular home. It was not something like how we were living in the streets or living in other places. So we kept the building—I mean clean and everything. We had to learn skills as far as the repairing, building it up, and stuff like that. That was about it.

Lewis: [00:24:39] Did some of y’all know how to do that, or you just learned?

Perez: No, all of us! We all had some type of skills, and we shared the skills by helping each other out, until we all together got it together, and we fixed the building up together. Because each one of us had some different type of skills. Someone had the carpentry skills. Somebody had a little plumbing skills or electrical skills, and we were teaching each other. We’d help each other to… We all just had to learn how to do those things, and we moved along!

Lewis: [00:25:11] And… Did you have regular meetings, or did y’all just communicate as you needed to?

Perez: We had to communicate because when we were able to be at home, because some of them had—some of them worked at that time—working an amount of hours, or whatever. When they’d come back home… We then—the days they didn’t work, we worked together. Days they were not there, you know—be out working.

Lewis: [00:25:40] Well, we’re going to come back to this topic, because you were one of the housing campaign leaders that was very inspiring to other members to create their own housing—because the system was not. So, we’re going to come back to this

Perez: Sure.

Lewis: because your—your life experiences before you joined Picture the Homeless, like everyone else, really shaped what kind of leader you are…

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: And so, it’s important.

Lewis: [00:26:14] And so, when you were street homeless, did the police harass you?

Perez: Well, it was not all the time. It was just sometimes when I was on the subway system. They used to tell me I couldn’t sleep stretched out on the seats or something like that. That was about it. Anything else, they really didn’t bother me as much.

Perez: [00:26:40] But, the only thing I was worried about… I was visioning—a lot of times on the—what made me stop, I was visioning—many times, watching people get robbed. And I’m sitting right directly across from them, and I acted like I was still sleeping, and I had to watch this here—because I didn’t even know what the person… They had a knife or stuff on them, and I didn’t even know what else, so I wasn’t going to try to assist or something like that. At that time I… There was like two of them, and I’m watching them rob a dude—a guy—cut his pants up with a razor and took his wallet and stuff—and I had to sit there and watch that. I said, “That can probably happen to me one night.” And that’s when I really decided, I said, “No, it’s just not safe out here. I got to—I got to get somewhere.” And that’s when I decided to move back to my mother. And just—I couldn’t do it. It was too dangerous.

Lewis: And you were in your twenties then?

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: [00:27:34] And what was it like for you, moving back with your mom?

Perez: It was a safe haven. I mean, I was able to help out and everything and I was still working at the time. And I was able to hold down the rules. I… Originally, she was living alone. She was living on Union Avenue. It was a tenement building. Then she moved out the tenement building into a senior citizen building right directly across the street. So, I held down her old apartment for about maybe a year. And after that, she asked me—because she was starting to get sick—so she asked me to surrender that apartment and move in where she’s at, to help her out. So, I was her actual home care person because we couldn’t get nobody to take care of her because she was really sick. She… So, I stayed with her for the duration, until she passed away, taking care of her. And after she passed away, eventually I had to—because it was a senior citizen building—I had to move out.

Perez: [00:28:45] And that’s when I went into the shelter system.

Lewis: And you had your son then too, right?

Perez: I had my son, yeah.

Lewis: So he must… How old was he?

Perez: At that time he was five, I think. Five—about four or five years old. He was still young.

Lewis: And is he your only

Perez: [Coughs] Huh?

Lewis: Is he your only child?

Perez: No, I have an older child, but I haven’t seen him in a lot of years.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmm.

Perez: Yeah, I have an older child, but his—his mother took him when they both left, and I don’t know where they’ve gone to.

Lewis: Okay. Sorry. So, you and your son, little Andres

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: went into the shelter system.

Perez: Yes, we went.

Lewis: [00:29:26] Could you describe what that—what that process was like, where you applied, what you had to do to prove you were homeless, and all that?

Perez: When we first went in—it was like on the first night, the first few nights... We had to go through all this—this kind of area that you got to go through... So many rooms… Then after that, the next couple nights, we went to—we went to a hotel. It was this hotel in Queens somewhere by the La Guardia, I think it was La Guardia Airport. We stood there a couple of days and then all of a sudden they sent us to this military type of shelter system. It was called… Run by…  Something America—Volunteers of America. Yeah, Volunteers of America, which is over there on Martin Luther King Boulevard in the Bronx.

Perez: [00:30:22] They had a van outside, once a month, we had to go out there for medical treatments. We had this crazy curfew stuff. I mean, it was—it was horrible. It was like—me and my son, we had no privacy. It was real horrible in there. It was like… We’d been in there for about two years, and my son, it was hard to come up and then I was having issues getting him to just go to school. Sometimes I had to take him to school, because the bus didn’t want to pick him up. It was torture for me. I was having to go… I was under pressure at my job and everything and just like... I would go to work late, I… It’s—it’s… I had to get out of the shelter system because I couldn’t do it. It was—it’s real rough. So, finally, I got out of there, and that’s when I moved to Upper Bronx on Eastchester, and I mentioned earlier about the horrible landlord after that.

Lewis: [00:31:16] Did someone at… Did staff in the shelter system help you get housing?

Perez: There was one worker... This one worker at that shelter there that did help me and everything, because she noticed that I kept my place clean at all times. I was very cooperative. She claimed that I was very cooperative to do what I have to do—and even though I didn’t like it, but I had no choice. So, that’s when they started working to get me out of there—after two years of being in there. I just couldn’t do it no more.

Lewis: [00:31:53] And did you have a voucher to pay your rent?

Perez: Yes, yes. And I was given a voucher, and I still hold down my voucher since then.

Lewis: So the—this landlord that you described—where you had no heat for all these years, they got paid from your voucher?

Perez: Yes, they did. Yes. Section 8—I reported to Section 8, and Section 8 allowed it. They would continue to pay this landlord. They would continue to pay this landlord all this money, and I’m living in a horrible… No heat, and this building was just outrageous.

Lewis: [00:32:31] Tell me about how the conditions in that apartment affected your health.

Perez: It got to the point that—my first diagnosis, it was my chronic back—a slipped disk—that I had in my spine, led to… I noticed that I had started developing the COPD and emphysema. Then it shot from there to my diabetes. It was just coming one by one after each other. The latest thing now is, I found out I have sleep apnea, and also found out I have sciatica and arthritis in both legs.

Lewis: Good lord.

Perez: Yeah. I mean, it’s just the cause of it—when I was living in that apartment for five years.

Perez: [00:33:28] And thanks that I was able to—being involved with Picture the Homeless—I was able to move from there down to Cooper Square where I’m living now, and I have no issues.

Lewis: [00:33:48] How did you hear? Well, you described earlier that little Andres saw Brandon King and his skateboard in an action. [Smiles]

Perez: [Smiles] Oh, yes. That was a really—he for some reason… I don’t know how it happened, actually. We was in a park, and we went to an action with CVH, and for some reason Picture the Homeless was out there at the same time. And my son seen—he’s—my sons has always been fascinated with people’s skateboards and stuff like that, and he somehow… He’s accustomed of just talking to people, and he had communicated for some reason. He started a conversation. I said, “You’re too young to be having conversations with grown people!” I used to tell him that all the time. I said, “You need to stop that.” And he got attached to this person, and he him—he let my son ride his skateboard. And then all of a sudden, we started to talk and conversate and...

Perez: [00:34:44] And he invited me into—back to—to his office—back to the office—the organization got an office… And they were going to have a meeting. He said they were going to have a meeting the next day, so I came. And I came to Picture the Homeless, and they had the meeting and everything. And I said… They were talking about some nice things—what they planned to do—campaigns, other actions, and stuff like that. I said, “This is something here that benefits, because this is what I’m going through, the situation I’m dealing with... People who live in the shelter system, who are going through trouble, or people having problems in housing.” That’s the work that I was thinking about, so I started to stick and stay for a while. And from there, well, we stayed there for quite a while and left it like that.

Lewis: So that was back like in 2008, maybe?

Perez: Yes, 2008.

Lewis: [00:35:40] Yeah… And so, what… Describe where the office was and what—what did it look like?

Perez: Oh, well…The space… I got—they gave me a nice tour. After a couple times I’d been there, they gave me a nice tour. We had two floors. It was a two-floor private house, which they had bathrooms on both floors. And a kitchen—at the time, it had a kitchen on both floors, and they had some rooms, some meeting rooms. It had other rooms, and it also had a porch deck and where people could go out and get comfortable and stuff. And we had the big room in there, so we could sit down and have little certain meetings, and we did a lot of phone banking and stuff like that—and we did a lot of things in there.

Lewis: [00:36:35] The first meeting that you attended was—Brandon, was civil rights?

Perez: Yes. Civil rights, yes.

Lewis: Do you remember what they were talking about?

Perez: I actually don’t remember exactly, but I think at the one time there was—the campaign was on… Was the police commissioner that we were trying to get—it was an issue with the police—I think it was the police commissioner they was working on. And I just—I can’t really pinpoint exactly what happened after that.

Lewis: That’s okay. What made you want to keep coming back?

Perez: [00:37:16] What made me want to come back… Because I felt that these are the things that’s happening in the system. I already suffered five years in the system—I mean, the home that… It was torture, and I didn’t never want to ever see another family going through that… If it’s a police case or a housing case, or whatever the case be. And I felt that with my support and me assisting with the organization—I mean, we probably can try to stop some of this things that’s happening and I just didn’t never want the thought that anyone else would have to go through something like that again, especially what I went through.

Lewis: [00:38:00] Where do you think your—your concern for what other folks are going through comes from? Not just for yourself, but what other people are dealing with?

Perez: Actually, I have times when I listen to people, when they mention the conditions they’re actually going through… I—what I usually do is, I have a conversation with them and have them reach out to someone that can actually help them. And I try to bring them back where I came from, what I’ve been dealing with, and try to support and see if they want to try to get themselves helped on certain cases, on that part, on whatever they’re going through, actually, if they’re dealing with housing or civil rights.

Lewis: [00:38:55] Well you know, some people—you know, many people that we’ve met that have come through Picture the Homeless don’t stay—because they’re trying to get their own. And not, you know—not to criticize, but some people are just trying to get an apartment for themselves. And you described yourself as somebody who wants to make sure no one ever—no one else goes through what you go through. And so, it sounds like a lot of your motivation is not just to get for you, but to make sure that everyone else is okay.

Perez: Yes, it definitely is.

Lewis: Where does that come from?

Perez: I guess during those years of—of me suffering… I suffered a lot during—over the years on different occasions. When I was younger, and I had—homeless twice. I hit—I got hit twice, being homeless! And the first time it was because I couldn’t afford to pay the rent and my rent was so high, and I didn’t make enough money to pay any rent or anything. And then when I finally got back on my feet again and then when I took care of my mother until she passed away and went back to another torture. And then after that, I get hit again! I mean—I mean, that’s enough for a person to deal with, with the system and...

Perez: [00:40:16] And you go out there fighting the system, and they don’t help you when you’re dealing with deadbeat landlords, or you’re dealing with the worst shelter system. So, I see all these things that’s happening. Or you’re walking down the—or you’re in the subway system, and the officers are telling you, “You can’t do this.” And attacking you on that.

Perez: [00:40:37] So, these are the things that I look at as I’m going—the experiences I’m going through. So I try my best to help someone to at least deliberate that by fighting… To get them to come back with us and, “Let’s do it together. Let’s work together to fight the system.” We’re entitled to what we need! I mean, we shouldn’t have to go through this. When I was younger, I didn’t know no better. I’m older now and wiser, and I’m going to [laughs] do something better than that. So I—you know, I try my best to stay on top of myself, but I’m always looking out for my fellow citizens, to get better as well.

Lewis: [00:41:12] That’s beautiful. And you are somebody at Picture the Homeless—one of your many leadership qualities is that you do outreach, and you bring in other people. How do you talk to people? And what—how do you talk to other homeless folks to get them interested?

Perez: What I do is I—when I step to a person, I ask them, how they’re doing. How they’re feeling, what’s going on? And that’s what I start off with. Then I introduce myself to them, and I let them know what I do with the organization, where I’m from and what we do and everything. And after that, I generally ask them, “Well how’s… What’s going on with the what-you-call-it? Give me the details of what’s happening.” After they let me know—certain cases, then I let them know, “We have an organization that—we all members get together and we strategize ways of trying to fight the system and if you would be willing to come with me, I invite you to our office, and you can see what we do, and hopefully one day, you’ll be out of this system or whatever. You could probably—I mean, [unclear] just come. I mean, can I get your word on this?” I try to get some information, so when I leave there, I can at least reach back to them. I can call and encourage them to come.

Lewis: [00:42:42] That’s so perfect. You know, we were talking about base building the other day with another group and I was role playing, so next time I’m going to invite you [smiles] to come to this training, because I was role playing… If you just give someone a flyer

Perez: Mm-Hmmm.

Lewis: they might say, “Oh, yeah, yeah! I’ll be there!” But if you don’t get their number or their email, you have no way to follow up with them.

Perez: Mm-Hmmm.

Lewis: And so, the way you just described that is a perfect description of [laughs] how to do outreach. And it works! Because you’ve brought

Perez: Mm-Hmmmm.

Lewis: in a lot of people.

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: [00:43:20] Hmmmm. And before we started recording, you mentioned someone who was your mentor. So Brandon—through your son, got you in.

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: And then when you got there, you met some folks that

Perez: Yes, when I

Lewis: became your mentors.

Perez: Yes. When I finally started really… When I—after I came in—I got in Picture the Homeless… The executive director, Lynn Lewis, she had—I guess she somehow got to meet me and my son. And somehow she encouraged me—us, to come out to… It was an action at a hospital being closed. And there was this gentleman—elderly gentleman named Jean Rice, had stood by me and conversated with me and gave me the encouragement, and to… Because they asked me to speak—do a speech, public speaking—about the hospital closing. So I had to—again, I had my son with me, and I was nervous... This was my first time actually doing something like that. And I was standing right next to the councilman, Councilman Charles Barron, and—and I was so nervous. I didn’t know if I was going to mess up everything. [Laughs] And this gentleman had just like—in other words, threw me under the bus type thing. He said, “You can do it. Have confidence.” And for some reason, Jean was right behind me and there was another lady, an elderly lady, and she was right beside me—Brenda, I think it was Brenda Stokely. And I started to feel the vibe. I said, “Oh, I think I can do this.” And I did what I had to, and I got the—the confidence and they said, “Yeah, you did a good job.” And so, “Okay.”

Perez: [00:45:15] And about a couple of months later, Ms. Lynn Lewis again invited me to… It was a big—a big rally. It was out by 250 Broadway, which was thousands and thousands of people out there… And it was a stage—a big stage, and they had people going up there to do public speaking. And Lynn Lewis, again... I said, “No, please don’t do me like this, not again.” [Laughs] And that’s… Then Jean Rice… I didn’t have a speech—a prepared speech or anything. I had to go in and talk out—out of my heart. And I went—and I went up there, and did what I—and I seen the crowd and they were cheering, and I said, “Oh, my God.” That’s when I seen, I had the confidence now to go out and do things.

Perez: [00:46:12] And so I started to strategize myself to do other things to support the organization besides—and let the public speaking go to someone else and I moved around and started doing other things that I know—I figured might help the organization to get better, and it worked!

Lewis: What kinds of things did you start doing?

Perez: [00:46:33] I started the outreach—to do outreach.

Lewis: Mmmm.

Perez: I was comfortable doing that. I like talking to people. And I’m like a—what do you call a person who, I… There’s a word they call it when you—when you try to bring closure with one person or another. You know—a mediator, or something like that.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmm.

Perez: So, I learned how to try to mediate with someone, and that’s when I knew how to check things out, and know when the person is going through things, and how to talk to them, and how to bring them in and that’s what I try to do. And… Outreach, and the other thing I most liked doing was—oh my God. I can’t think of it right now.

Lewis: [00:47:22] It’s okay. It will come. So, in addition to the civil rights campaign meetings that you attended—and they were held every Tuesday

Perez: Mm-Hmmmm.

Lewis: you also were attending housing campaign meetings

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: on Thursday nights.

Perez: Yes. Yes. [Coughing]

Lewis: [00:47:40] And so, what were the housing campaign meetings about?

Perez: Oh, the housing campaign… When I first started coming in, at that time, they was working… I don’t know. They weren’t working so much at that time when I came in… They… Oh, it’s so long. I can’t remember when I first started.

Lewis: It’s okay.
 
Perez: Yeah. When I first started, I just can’t remember what the work was we wase doing when I first started. But later on down the line—years later, that’s when we started working on the bill, the Intro… What was that? The Intro… 48?

Lewis: Yep! Intro 48.
 
Perez: [00:48:20] Yeah. We started on Intro 48, and we started counting buildings and lots, and everything and we had made a project out of it. We got some donors and everything, and we met up in some places, and we split up in teams and we started going around counting buildings and lots! And that was the fun part. I had my nieces at that time. That’s when they started to live with me. I brought my nieces in and my nephew—my little nephew, and they came over, and we all worked together with the organization. It was nice. It was fun and everything.

Lewis: [00:48:59] I believe that—that you were a hub captain

Perez: Yes, I was.

Lewis: in Brooklyn.

Perez: In Brooklyn, yeah.

Lewis: And so, what did you… And that was the, you know—the teams that were counting different neighborhoods, right?

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: [00:49:13] So you were a hub captain. What did you have to do as a hub captain?

Perez: Making sure that we get the correct lots and buildings onto the forms we had. We had some forms that we had to make sure… Each—it was broken up in sections. It was like a section, and we had to locate each building, and put a mark on the form to indicate the building, and stuff like that.

Lewis: And these are vacant buildings and lots.

Perez: Vacant buildings and lots, yes.

Lewis: How did that make you feel?

Perez: [00:49:53] It made me feel great! Because just imagining years of living unconditional, and then knowing that other people out here are living unconditional, and then seeing these buildings just sitting there for years… And I’ve seen them years ago, like I mentioned earlier, I didn’t even know the purpose of why an abandoned building is just sitting there boarded up until I got to Picture the Homeless, and I said, “That’s why!” I said, “No, I’ve got to get in here and do something about this. We’re going to have to get together and count these buildings and check these lots out and do what we have to do and convince the city to do something about it, because this—this is crazy!”

Lewis: [00:50:33] So what did you learn at Picture the Homeless that told you what was up with these vacant buildings and lots?

Perez: Excuse me, say it again?

Lewis: What did you learn at Picture the Homeless about the vacant buildings and lots. You said that you didn’t know why they were vacant, and then…

Perez: Yeah. Actually, I didn’t realize what was the problem… All I knew about it is that—it was so suspicious how a building was getting burned down every so often. At that time, it was kind of fishy about that. Every time you turn around, there’s a big fire in a building and the whole building is burned down. Nobody’s living in the building. It’s boarded up. So, years went down the line. So, now these buildings had already been boarded up for over the years. Now, I’m saying, “Okay, what is the reason why these buildings are not being renovated or not being worked on? Why is it just sitting there?” And when I got part of Picture the Homeless, I found out they’re warehousing them! They’re holding them down to wait for speculating days so they can get the face value for the property, or something. So, that’s what I believe.

Lewis: [00:51:38] And what is it about that that bothers you?

Perez: What bothers me? You got all these buildings that—you got all these—these what-do-you-call these—owners or contractors… Not contractors… I can’t think of the name right now. But whoever owns the building—the property… Whoever is the owner of the property, is holding it down while there’s so many people doubling up in apartments, or living in a shelter, or living on the streets, or whatever the case might be—when you got these buildings that could be uploaded, cleaned out, renovated, and fixed for someone to live in. And it bothers me a lot to see—to see people living in these conditions. I’ve seen so much people in real bad conditions and they ain’t got to live out in the climate—cold climate weather, on the dirty streets, and they got buildings there—they could be renovated for them to live in.

Lewis: [00:52:38] Now, you have a lot of construction and maintenance skills, and

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: you have your experience when you were squatting. And I know one of the things you always pushed for was that—not only could this be housing for people but fixing the buildings up would create jobs.

Perez: Correct.

Lewis: And so, could you talk about that a little bit?

Perez: [Sighs] I always thought—when I was… At the time when I used to squat—at that time we called it clubhousing, back in those days. At that time, we never really considered ourselves squatting, really. I believe squatting, starting to think about that—was up in the nineties. This is back in the eighties when we was in this building. And it was an opportunity—each one of us had some type of maintenance skill. We always had went to a vocational school to pick up a trade or something and had experience of doing certain things. And we used to be there and educate each other on how… And figured one day, we would be able to branch out of this building and hopefully maybe to open up other buildings.

Perez: [00:53:55] But it just didn’t work at that time because we didn’t have the full knowledge of how to hold it down so… And we ended up losing it. So… But I—one day I figured if it ever happened I—I mean this, if you do it correctly… I might do it again! [Laughs]

Lewis: Well, speaking of that, I remember when we were in the Bronx, we had a group of people within the housing campaign who wanted to start doing that as a group. Picture the Homeless always had individuals who were you know—squatting, or some folks call it homesteading, but not as an organization, not as a group. And like-minded people kind of met up within the housing campaign and created something called the housing unit.

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: [00:54:51] Could you talk about that—work?

Perez: We had; several times we had a few buildings we had gotten. We held it down—we held it down for at least one or two months. And in the process of trying to hold the building down, we had within the group—we had one person within the group who wasn’t cooperative and who always wanted to take and have more control of things, and he make—he decided to make wrong decisions. If we probably was able to follow with the group, we might have been able to hold down these buildings longer. But we did hold them down, we cleaned out buildings, we fixed it up and made... We had electricity and everything up in them.

Perez: [00:55:43] But we just couldn’t keep the buildings down—because one individual of the group had a different decision… Until we ended up losing the building. And we kept doing that and every time we opened up a building and it was like, back and forth—until after a while, I got tired of that. I said, “No, I can’t do it no more, because it doesn’t make any sense—opening up a building and fixing it up so we could get people to live in there comfortably, and one person decide that they want to be overall decision maker, and make this complicated for the rest of us to hold it down.” So, that’s what happened.

Lewis: [00:56:22] So, could you share… What are some of the things that are necessary to be successful at doing that, then? You just mentioned something that made it hard, somebody trying to be the boss.

Perez: What actually what makes it successful is—once we are able to open up a building, and we fix it up, we all have to work as a team. Any decision-making has to be made by the group. We all have to be on the same—same table. You got to make the same—be on the same point. Nobody shouldn’t be the hierarchy and making decisions for no group. And once we start doing that, and we’re all on the same page—once the property is open, we clean it out, we do what possibly what we need to do—then we can move forward—start your mailing, get your mailing going, I mean, so we can get residential, and so forth and so on.

Lewis: [00:57:20] During this period, you were asked to join the board of Picture the Homeless.

Perez: Yes. [Smiles] During that time, I was invited to join the board. Which I felt very gratitude about it… I felt that I could be a positive leader and supporter and try to learn more about the board and also learn more about the organizational process—the major parts, and on the high level, actually. And it got to the point that I worked for—I stood on the board for maybe a few years—close to five years, I think it was—and until I got—I found out I have a heart problem. I have CHF. It’s called congestive heart failure. And my cardiologist, who was working on my illness, mentioned that I needed to clear out anything that might stress—because my stress level was high, anything that exactly would bring it up, because they were thinking about putting a heart monitor one time, and then a pacemaker another time—and I was not trying to do any of that stuff… And so I had a choice. I can take medication and...

Perez: [00:58:39] So, I had to—I was not just on the Picture the Homeless board. I also was—with my son’s school, I was the PTA president for five years in his school, as well. I was sitting on so many different committees and stuff like that, and part of the PTA and Picture the Homeless activities… So, it was too much for me. So, I had to drop down a lot of stuff and just take a break for a minute, and then redirect myself back.

Perez: [00:59:05] But I definitely never wanted to leave Picture the Homeless, because Picture the Homeless has always been my life, and always been a place that I need—I know where to go and if things go wrong, I know where to turn. And I’m always supportive to other members—a lot of members, I support them as well.

Lewis: [00:59:22] What kinds of… What was the experience like on the board? Do—what kinds of things did you work on, or did you all take on as a board?

Perez: Actually, when I was on the board, at the time, it wasn’t hardly that much things going on, really. I mean, besides—we had our basic meetings. We had our meetings when we were supposed to. We had our scheduled meetings. And we were going over the budget, we’re making sure the budget was—made sure everything was good. And we—every time, every month and everything, we had a printout. Everybody got a copy of the printout, so we would know exactly what was spent and everything, and how things were going as far as the budget wise and that was it for us—that.

Perez: [01:00:11] And… And we also had… Some members had fundraisers. So, that was under our title as well because we would bring in money—the fundraisers do. What we would do is—we would help each other out, because at that time I didn’t really have a place. So, most board members would have a little house party at their house, and I was—so I had to team up with somebody. What I did was, I’d make a donation, make a large donation, so help out towards—so that’s how… Because I didn’t have a place and if they were doing a house party… So, for me to do a house party, I had to team up with somebody else. So, that’s how I would do, as far as that. And we’d also have discussions on our executive director, making sure that she’s doing her job and that was it! And everything was good! And we moved on.

Lewis: [01:01:07] Do you have like a favorite memory of either a housing campaign or a civil rights action?

Perez: I’ve got a few. Let me see. Okay. I have a few.

Lewis: [Smiles] Alright. Let’s hear all of them.

Perez: Okay. One of them, my favorite one, was a housing campaign one, okay. When we went to a city council—what was that… Debrief? Or something like that? And we had teams of three or four members to try to shut down the meeting. And the first phase went inside the room and started screaming out, “Intro 48!” Then they was escorted out. Then, they didn’t realize there were a couple more phases in there. So, the city council personnel or whatever, she was angry. At the time—her name was Christine Quinn; I think it was.

Lewis: Yeah. The city council speaker. [Smiles]

Perez: Speaker. Christine Quinn. And she didn’t realize how many people was—or how many of us were there doing this. Second person went in... Same thing. We had ourselves chained together and she got so mad, she shut down the meeting and everything. So we made our—what do you call it?

Perez: [01:02:44] And the next part is—we went to—back the next… I think the next day or a couple days later. We went to—it was supposed to be a meeting in 250 Broadway. As we walked there—and they had all our pictures [laughter] up on the—on this wall! I happened to look up. I said, “Oh, that looks like me! What the hell is you doing with my picture up there?” [Laughs] And everybody’s looking at it, and says, “Oh shit, that’s my picture.” And it was hilarious. That was one right there. The other one, let me see. I’m trying to see if I can remember a civil-rights one. Let me see if I can remember a civil-right one. Oh, my God. There was one for civil rights, too. I think I’m going to have to come back. It’s not… My brains are not working.

Lewis: It’s okay.

Perez: I’ll come back. It’ll come back to me because there was one civil rights too, I had.

Lewis: [01:03:30] The… So, Christine Quinn was the speaker of the city council, and she—as I recall, you and I were attached to each

Perez: Oh Yes.

Lewis: other

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: and the chairs,

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: and Jerry.

Perez: [Smiles] Yes, and Jerry. Oh yeah, Jerry was so shy.

Lewis: We got dragged out. He was so shy!

Perez: [Laughs] He was shy. He was scared. He was scared. No, he wasn’t shy. He was scared. He was scared.

Lewis: But nothing happened.

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: We got dragged out. It was—it was mass confusion because they didn’t know we were hooked up to the chairs.

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: [01:04:02] And then, when you all went back, they had your pictures up, because we were banned from 250 Broadway.

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: And we had to get Norman Siegel, the civil rights, civil liberties attorney, to call Christine Quinn and say, “You can’t do that.”

Perez: [Laughs] Yeah.

Lewis: So, we felt pretty full of ourselves. [Smiles]

Perez: Yeah. I don’t know. I was just shocked to see my picture up on that wall. Because when I first walked in, it didn’t dawn on me until I looked up and I kept looking at that. I turned my head and looked back. I said, “No, that picture looks like me for some reason.” [Laughs]

Lewis: Yeah, that was great.

Lewis: [01:04:42] Now, one of the roles that you played in many, many actions was as security.

Perez: I played as police negotiator a couple times and security, I also was on tactical, doing tactical stuff. That’s good work and that’s basically it right there.

Lewis: And what is your job doing those things? When you do those things, what does it mean?

Perez: [01:05:10] As a police negotiator—actually, to keep our group safe and protected, and to talk to the police and to let them know that we are having a peaceful—a peaceful action, or other event, whatever. And as to the same thing, there’s a conversation they’ll give to me... I’ll return back to my group, and we’ll do transitional and everything and all conversations we keep between myself and the group and me and the police officer—so we have a safe and fair action to address our rights.

Lewis: [01:05:57] And then security, when you were in the role as a tactical team member,

Pere: Yes.

Lewis: what was your job?

Perez: [01:06:05] To keep—to keep our people in the certain area, so they doesn’t block the pedestrian areas and stuff like that. Or when we’re marching, keeping in a straight lane for people can have to make—to cross the streets and curbs and stuff, and keep protecting, keeping our members protected from any loose cannon I guess, so we—we don’t have to be interacting on any other issues, and stuff like that.

Lewis: [01:06:44] Did you participate in sleep—sidewalk sleep-outs?

Perez: Yes, several of them.

Lewis: Tell us about that.

Perez: The funniest—the nice one is when I had my younger niece. She stood with me as a trooper. She stayed, and we had one—it was pouring rain, and we stayed there until the next morning, soaking wet. [Smiles]

Lewis: Where were we?

Perez: That’s when we was down in Manhattan. I think it was by Penn Station or something.

Lewis: Mmmmmm. Yeah, that was a bad rain.

Perez: [01:07:16] Yeah, yeah. I think it was Penn Station, it were there. And we did one—and it was in Queens and that was a nightmare for me. And I hate to go back remembering that one, because I was framed by the New York Post for being somewhere I wasn’t. And they also put out a message that I didn’t mention. So, we had to clear that up—and finally we got out of that mess. And just remembering that, just seeing my face in a horrible paper, I just didn’t—that was something that I don’t like to talk about anymore.

Lewis: [01:07:59] What did you—what did you learn from that, so that other groups can beware of certain things?

Perez: What I learned for us in that case? Be careful how we plan our—our activities. Be careful what—when we’re using certain languages. And make sure that we are more diligent with what we plan to do.

Lewis: [01:08:34] So, the New York Post, as you said—you were set up. At the time—that was at the time we were targeting Christine Quinn, and she didn’t want Intro 48 to even get a hearing.

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: And so, we learned later that her office sent a letter to HPD to investigate us,

Perez: Yes.

Lewis: but they leaked the same letter to the New York Post. And so, because of your high visibility as a leader—and also, they used race… They had your picture in the paper, and it was to make Picture the Homeless look like we were criminals.

Perez: [01:09:21] Yes. And we were no criminals. It was—we’re not doing that—that was not the—that was not the actual agenda of our action for there. It was not to be out there trying to break into no house or anything like that. Our intention out there is to bring awareness to the chairman that we want to get him to put the Intro 48 on the table, not to be breaking into no buildings and no stuff like that or causing any crimes and stuff like that. So, they—they stirred our message wrong. They put us in—in a bad shape, and that’s what happened.

Lewis: [01:10:10] Do you remember where we were when that article came out?

Perez: It was—it was in Queens. The place was a co-op type of housing, it was over on the other side, and we was at Eric Dilan’s office, which was a few blocks away and I remained there. I had not left that spot—that whole section there, so how can I be over there in two places at one time?

Lewis: [01:10:41] And when the article came out, we were at a retreat upstate. You and Ryan Gibbs and I were at a weekend retreat.
 
Perez: Yes.

Lewis: Remember? We were in this

Perez: Right.

Lewis: movement leadership program.

Perez: Yes

Lewis: [01:10:58] And you went to a lot of trainings.

Perez: Mm-Hmmm.

Lewis: You’ve always gone to a lot of trainings. What are—do you—what are some trainings that you had at Picture the Homeless that you feel like were really helpful to you?

Perez: The training that I really loved about was the North Star Fund and when we had the—I believe it was five weeks section and we got to learn on all different topics and different parts of the campaign—not the campaign, but different [unclear] like organizing… Phone—what do you call it… Organizing… Oh, my God… Public speaking, base building, and so on. Yeah. It’s seems like it’s coming in riddles.
 
Lewis: Don’t worry.

Perez: [01:11:54] and yeah. Yeah. So, I loved—by doing that, it’s giving me an opportunity to learn all these different things, so I can be able to stretch my mind out and be able to… Not just for me to learn, but it’s also for me to lead the rest of my leaders.

Lewis: Mm-Hmmmm.

Perez: And once I get to learn it, I can pass it on to the rest of the members and just keep going on and on with that.

Lewis: [01:12:16] Okay…. Within Picture the Homeless, when we had the Homeless Organizing Academy, you attended trainings through that, also?

Perez: Oh, yes. Yeah, I also did some trainings with that, as well. I also liked when we had a board member named Willie Baptist. He used to come over and he used to give us some kind of—what do you call it—I liked that. And we had another young lady. She used to come over and give us some training on public speaking. And at first I was kind of—what do you call it—but I didn’t do so much of that anyway, but I say I had a little fear in that—of doing that, so I figured I’d just take some courses in that to learn how to be able to deal with the public.

Lewis: [01:13:08] And all this time, you had your—you’re a single dad and you’re coming to meetings with your son. A lot of families didn’t tend to stick with Picture the Homeless as long. What is it, what do you think is it about you that kept you hanging in there, even though you were a single dad?

Perez: [Sighs] I always figured that I would probably go back in the system sometime again, the way things are going. I’m watching—I mean, not to say watching, I’m observing a lot of families and a lot of people who end up in the system… Really a lot and because they can’t afford the rent, or they happen to lost their job, or any kind of tragedy happens and what you call it. And at that time, I wasn’t working, and I ain’t have no job. I was on welfare. My fear was that, if they decided to mess me up, I might be ending up in the same boat as them.

Perez: [01:14:19] I also look at the point that, I see a lot of my fellow members that I got attached to and they’re going through this struggle. I want to be there to support. And I—I…The organization has put me where I’m at now. I mean, the suffering and everything I’ve been through, Picture the Homeless has always been there. And with the support of Lynn Lewis, the director, the executive director, and my brother Jean Rice—it was his—pointing and directing me everything, and then he gave me friendly advice and stuff and everything, and he’s also been supportive of my son! He’s the one—I always tell him, “You’re going to Uncle Jean!” He called him Uncle Jean, when he was little. “Uncle Jean!” And my son got attached to him—so ever since then, it’s just a place that I always want to be. I want to be supportive and everything, because Picture the Homeless, it does not just a lot for me, it does a lot for a lot of people. It’s a real strong organization that really helps people!

Lewis: [01:15:28] Besides Jean, who were—who were some of your other mentors at Picture the Homeless?

Perez: Brandon King was one… Let’s see. Sam Miller is another… Ahhhh. Oh, my God. I can’t think of the rest right now.

Lewis: What kinds of things did Brandon help you with?

Perez: Brandon, he used to have me focus on trying to learn more about the issues and the languages of what’s going on with the NYPD and learning about the bills and stuff like that. Because we were working on some bills to try to push through and he used to teach me the languages of each of them. And… Because I was like kind of—back then I was kind of confused. I didn’t know what was happening. I didn’t know what was going on. And he would sit down with me, and he would show me, and he would tell me, “This is what this does, and what we got to do.” And then we’d go out... We’d go out to the meetings or whatever, and meet with some of the politicians or whatever, and so I know how to talk. When we go sit there in the meeting, we know how to reach them, how to speak to them and things and they... And then if I make a mistake, he’d say, “Don’t worry about it. This is what you did wrong.” I mean, he was—that’s the type of person he was. He would come back to me and encourage me and say, “Okay, next time, you do it this way.” And so, I admire him for that.

Lewis: [01:16:58] And Sam? What kinds of things did you

Perez: Sam. I can come to Sam whenever time I have an issue, if it’s PTH or if it’s personal—either-or. I can go to Sam and I can ask him questions—sit down and have a conversation with him, and he would—he would be there. And if I ever been out of control or out of hand, Sam used to come to me. He’d say, “Andres, let me talk to you…” And sit down, we’d have this conversation and I’d say, “You know Sam, you’re right.” And I’d straighten myself up and move on. Sam has always like been there, when I can... Looks out for me when anything comes up. That’s what I liked about Sam.

Lewis: And you’re—Hmmmmm?

Perez: [01:17:43] I was getting ready to say about you. As far as you, from Lynn Lewis... One thing I never could forget, I had a major surgery that had to get done. It was a life-threatening thing. I had to get ten teeth taken out of my mouth. It was a major surgery that had be done right away and it took a long time to be approved, and I had to have someone to be my proxy. And I couldn’t trust nobody. I couldn’t find nobody I could feel comfortable with and trust, until I found Lynn. And I asked her—I was surprised that she would actually—would be that person, and she was there for me. She brought me home. She cooked my soup that evening. [Smiles] I felt real nice and that’s not all. She didn’t leave after that. We used to go on a lot of actions and stuff, but I got to see another piece of her [laughs] and that was about it. But she was there for me. That’s the main thing.

Lewis: [01:18:50] Yeah, I remember that. [Smiles] Genghis was also—came to your house, or came to the hospital and we went home together.

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: And you lived way up in the Bronx, near Ramarley Graham’s family.

Perez: Right.

Lewis: That was before Ramarley Graham was murdered. I remember Genghis and I walking to the supermarket, and we were like, “Where the hell is the supermarket?” [Laughter] Everything is so far away

Perez: Yeah.

Lewis: from everything. It was a nice area.

Perez: Yeah. The area is beautiful. Everything’s beautiful in that area, but—until I met that horrible landlord. [Laughs]

Lewis: [01:19:32] You were always there for other people and one of the things that I’ll always remember about you is, whenever there was an event, you were always part of the planning and wanting to make sure that everybody was clear about their role, and followed through. And I don’t think I ever heard you ever raise your voice with anyone.

Perez: [01:20:00] No. I’ve always been that type of person—back in the years, I used to be a stressed-out person. I used to be very argumentative and all that. I learned how to be more calmer and more cool and collected, in a way and know how to... You know, people—you know, I’m more like a people person and you know—trying to talk to a person and trying to bring them down to our level so we get to—what do you call it—to comfort and everything. And let them know, we can do certain things without going through the stress and everything. We can do this project together, and we don’t have to be going through making errors and mistakes.

Perez: [01:20:42] So, I try my best to be that person and let the person who I’m dealing with, whoever and whatever work that we do, to let them know exactly, “This is worth it. It’s going to benefit all of us and if we don’t get together and try to do something about what we got to do together, we’ll be fighting or whatever—arguing about it, we’re not going to get nothing done that way. If we get together and work this out, we’ll get the job done and we’ll all be happy.”

Lewis: [01:21:08] Tell me about the pies, because I know every Christmas you bake like, I don’t even know how many hundreds of pies. [Smiles]

Perez: [Laughs] Yeah, it started—I started the first year making fifty pies, and each year I increased it an extra amount. Until one time… I started—that’s when I started increasing them—when we had the Longest Night, so I could make enough pies for the people to take home. And I made eighty pies that day, and night. And I make all my pies from scratch. Everything’s fresh—fresh cinnamon, nutmeg, and all that. Fresh milk. Everything’s fresh and nothing imitation or whatever. And I take my time and make these pies—because it’s my mother’s recipe. And I haven’t heard not one person say, “Your pies is horrible.” [Smiles] And it’s been years. Every year, I do it on the holidays. That’s when I make them. And that’s just to show my appreciation to the people who I work around and it’s my way of saying thank you for being part of my life and making things easier.

Lewis: [01:22:23] What are some of the things that you think are important for people to know about Picture the Homeless?

Perez: I always—this is the way I always tell my fellow members. I always tell them, “This is our safe haven place here. Without this place here, we would be nothing. We’ll be out here struggling. The system would have a better advantage over us. We need a place—that we’ve been having—that we can put a stop to a lot of this nonsense that we have to deal with in our everyday life. If we don’t stand up strong and fight against the system, and stay together as members and families or whatever, we’re never going to get nowhere. We’re going to be out there worrying about where—what’s going to happen each day. So, Picture the Homeless has always been that safe haven place for me.

Perez: [01:23:18] It’s always been a place that I get my knowledge and my energy. I mean, extra knowledge and stuff. I’m able to do things and everything. I—I’ve learned a lot from Picture the Homeless and I’ve learned a lot from the members I deal with, and I also feel that other members appreciate the stuff I’ve done for them, as well. So, being part of Picture the Homeless, I’m going to stick and stay, stay strong, and fight this battle, and stop this nonsense that’s going on. I’m not going to let Picture the Homeless go down like that.

Lewis: If you—do you have any other thoughts you want to share about Picture the Homeless, or?

Perez: [01:24:01] I really, actually…I’m so sorry that I have to be so confused of all the things that’s happened. I really don’t want to go into too much details into that. I’m—I’ve been lost. I mean, after… Members of Picture the Homeless used to come to me all the time when it comes to certain issues. But when it came to this situation that we are now, no member had come to me about it until after the fact. I say, “It’s too late now.” Right now, my focus now is to come back and go to the next agenda, go onto the next—move on… Next steps. And what happened in the past, we’ll focus on that afterwards. We have to keep building. We can’t stay worried about what has really happened. We got to stay focused and move forward and that’s just the thing that I tell all the members up to this day. We have to stay strong, and stay focused, and move to the next steps. Whatever happened in the past, we’re going to have to build afterwards and take that one step at a time, but put more effort into what we’ve got to do to move forward. And that’s what I be telling all my members.

Lewis: Alright. Well Andres, thank you for this wonderful interview. You’re a special person, it’s clear.

Perez: Mmmm. Thank you.

Lewis: All right. I’m going to turn it off.

Perez: Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]