Matilda Dyer

Phillip: [00:00:00] Okay, today is Tuesday, February 21st. We're here at the Nehemiah offices in Brooklyn, New York. I'm Phillip Norman. Got Teddy Ellis here who asked some questions. And then we're speaking with Matilda Dyer. Would you like to introduce yourself for the recording?

Matilda: [00:00:17] Yes, my name is Matilda Dyer and I live in the Brownville Nehemiah Homeowners Association. I'm the board president and I've lived in that property for Adie Junior Street for almost 40 years. I was, I was one of the original homeowners in Brownville.
Phillip: [00:00:42] Wow. Excited to hear some more about that. Just to get us started though, could you tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what your upbringing was like?

Matilda: [00:00:50] Okay. I grew up in Dominica. It is really the Commonwealth for Dominica, not Republic, Dominica, the Commonwealth of Dominica. That lies between Martinique and Guadeloupe. I grew up in the country, girl, living a free life, running around, going to the garden. Then I went to high school in the town of Roseau and from high school I got married. Then we moved to New York some what? 40 years ago. Just before I purchased this property, I moved to New York. So that's my life in a nutshell.

Phillip: [00:01:40] Right, right. Well, and Dominica, you said some interesting things last time about the way the community was structured there. Everyone had a home and kind of kept the family together. So could you say something about that?

Matilda: [00:01:50] Right. We lived in the country and I did not know about apartment buildings because everyone in the country have their own home. It may be a one room, two rooms or three, but everyone had their own property. And so if you began with one room, you end up putting another room in a few years when you have a little money and you have the neighbors come around and they help you to build, you cook for them for the day and you feed them. And that is how we grew up in the community. The neighbors were always willing because we kind of helped one another and, and we had our own subsistence farming. So basically we did not have to go and buy stuff to cook. You had your own and if you didn't have, your neighbor would give you. And that is how I lived in community.

Phillip: [00:02:54] You said it was more of like a collective culture there, right?

Matilda: [00:02:57] Yes,

Matilda: [00:02:58] Yes. It is a collective because I, I help you today and then the next week it's your turn. We help the other one, whether it's planting in the garden or whether it's building the home. Unfortunately today everything is cash and money and this has changed over the years.

Phillip: [00:03:17] Sure, sure. And when you were, when you were growing up there, who were some of the most important like influences in your life?

Matilda: [00:03:24] My mother, my father and my older brother, my oldest brother, he passed away sometime ago, but he was always building and creating new things and in the beginning I think we had no electricity, so he made electricity, he put the batteries together and our horse had electricity. So he was always doing and building the trucks. You know, we did not have these plastic trucks. They made trucks with wood and put some tires under and pushed it. So that's the fun days I remember.

Phillip: [00:04:05] And what was your mother like?

Matilda : [00:04:06] Oh, my mother was like, she says, my mother always said, woman is my name.

Phillip: [00:04:15] What does she mean by that?

Matilda: [00:04:17] It means that when she wants to get something done, she gets it done.

Phillip: [00:04:23] Yeah. You described her as committed and determined.

Matilda: [00:04:25] Yes.

Phillip: [00:04:26] Yes.

Matilda: [00:04:27] Yes. She did it a sewing machine. And my, my father took a while and she went and she bought a machine and she said, I just bought me a sewing machine

Phillip: [00:04:37] Here. It's

Matilda: [00:04:38] So

Phillip: [00:04:38] What about your father? What did he do? What was he like?

Matilda: [00:04:40] Oh, my father was strict. My father was, you couldn't play outside. If you got your plane, you got whipped. Yeah, he was very strict. He was a disciplinarian. And in terms of the times you, you, there's a time to play, but you better not go play before you do your chores. And everyone had chores, cleaning the yard, washing the dishes, doing the laundry, and that laundry was by hand. We didn't have any washing machines, so he was strict in this area. He was also a, he was a Christian. And of course, church, church time, you better be ready to go to church. So we were kind of taken to church when he was younger. So church is a part of my life. So

Phillip: [00:05:32] What church were you going to at that time?

Matilda: [00:05:34] We went to a A Brethren church. Brethren Church, where they did not do too much of clapping and drums and stuff like this and at that time, but I, I later down got into Pentecostal church where I like the action. I like the clapping, I like the screaming, I like the hollering. So

Phillip: [00:05:53] Were there any people in church growing up you kind of looked up to or who imparted any wisdom?

Matilda: [00:06:00] Well, the pastor. And even yesterday, my sister speaking about a pastor, he was such a gentle, gentle man and she was talking about husbands and wife. And they had grown so close to each other that when one began a conversation, the other one finished the conversation. And I think they were good examples of family and of husband and wife. Basically you would like to see husband and wife working together. And these two, they did work together. So that I remember.

Phillip: [00:06:40] Yeah, sure, sure. And then in Dominica, you, you were a teacher for a while, right?

Matilda: [00:06:44] Yes, when I graduated high school, I went into teaching, actually I taught, the first year I graduated, I did high school and we had a two-year college. So I did a two-year college. And then I went into teaching in the high school, just the, the, the first, first, first grade. First and second we had one, one to sixth, one to five. And then sixth and seven was college. So I, I taught grade one and, and grade two in high school teaching mathematics and science.

Phillip: [00:07:22] Was that a common profession to go into or what? What made you wanna be a teacher?

Matilda: [00:07:27] I think at that time, this is what, when you went to high school, you either became a policeman, a teacher, or a nurse. These were the three professions they have available. I mean, today they have, you know, engineering, they have computer. But at that time, these were the three main professions because when you went to high school, you did not go back home and work in the garden. You did not go and work in the store. You became a teacher when you, once you graduate high school, a teacher, a policeman or a, a nurse, nursing school, that's our main professions. So, and I did the two of them. I began be teaching in Dominican. I taught for a number of years in Dominican until I migrated to New York where I went into nursing.

Phillip: [00:08:23] That's right, that's right. You told me that. So that was you, you came to the US when you were like 30, is that right?

Matilda: [00:08:29] Yes, yes. I was 30. And that must have

Phillip: [00:08:30] Been sort of a culture shock coming from a rural place to the us Very different.

Matilda: [00:08:35] Yes, it was different. But what I had done some traveling to at least some of the other Caribbean islands. So you had seen some more development than we had in Dominican. Definitely. And I also, 'cause when I moved to Roseau, which is the main town to go to high school, it was a little bit much more different. That's where I learned about apartment buildings and people are renting that kind of stuff. Island that's in from Dominica.

Phillip: [00:09:04] Right. Right. It reminds me of the reason for you and your family to migrate. You said there was a hurricane maybe right

Matilda: [00:09:10] Before. There was a hurricane in 1979 and most of the houses were destroyed. And I, my husband was already up here, so we decided to myself and the two boys to migrate to the United States. I was a little challenge, you know, so, because when you come here as a a foreigner, it takes a while to get yourself acclimated, you know, the business, the trains, the subway. But you know, you come here and you learn.

Phillip: [00:09:45] Right, right. What were some of the most difficult adjustments to make and where were you at first? In Brooklyn or somewhere?

Matilda: [00:09:49] Always in Brooklyn. Okay. I came to Brooklyn 'cause he lived in Brooklyn and we have been in Brooklyn since then. Wow. The adjustments, you know, learning the subway system, learning the train system, getting into college. 'cause when I came here I did, although I had a high school diploma, I came here and I did the GED and started again from scratch in college. But I think having a good foundation, it kind of made it a little easier for me to do college here. Yes. Right.

Phillip: [00:10:26] Where'd you go to school here?

Matilda: [00:10:28] I did Kingsborough for part-time 'cause I, I had to work, work and took care of the kids. So I did Kingsborough part-time. I think about maybe three years or four years. That's where I did the associate in nursing and I did the RN and at that time you could do the RN after the associate. And then I transferred to Downstate Medical Center where I did the bachelor's.

Phillip: [00:10:56] Okay. And if you had been teaching Dominica, why'd you switch to nursing state?

Matilda: [00:11:00] Because when I came to New York, the, for teaching here, you had to have degrees. You had to have a degree to teach in Here I was in a church who had a little school and they had offered me something in here, but I just got into working as a nurse's as a matter of fact. And I love what I do. So I, and friends influenced me. I had a friend who worked with me and she says, you know, I was gonna do computers. And she said, you're not a computer person, computer, you're by yourself. You are a people person. Get into nursing. And I'm glad I made that decision.

Phillip: [00:11:42] Yeah, that's interesting you say that. I've met a lot of people who are really into community organizing who, who were or are nurses. So I think it is just like the, the people skills. Yes.

Matilda: [00:11:51] Gonna

Phillip: [00:11:52] Transfer

Matilda: [00:11:52] Over. Yes, yes. Right.

Phillip: [00:11:53] That makes sense. That makes sense. Who, when you, I mean you were beginning your career in the United States in a new country. Were there any people who kind of helped you get settled or helped you kind of

Matilda: [00:12:05] Well, I met a few, especially one person called Rita. She was from my country and I met her when I came up here and she kind of helped me. She helped me to go for job interview, take me places, took me to boxing in Manhattan at, on Eve Avenue. So, and that's what I find is when you get here, I think in order to progress you need to be connected to people who are progressive or people who are want to see you do better. And so she, she really helped me. She helped me. She got me to nursing, 'cause she was a nurse also. She was an LPM. She says, go into nursing, you could find a job anywhere as a nurse. And and I did.

Phillip: [00:12:59] What about like institutions that you got connected to? Did you find a church or,

Matilda: [00:13:04] Yeah, well I was in the church. When I came here we found the church close by and we used to want, the pastor was helpful too because even when I, when EBC began advertising about the homes I did not have sufficient money for, well I did have enough for the basic down payment, but I needed to put, I wanted to put something more than the basic. And I remember the pastor said I could help you. And he gave me some, a few thousand dollars to add to our down payment when we purchased that home. And I remember him unfortunately, passed away a few years after the storm.

Phillip: [00:13:45] Oh,

Matilda: [00:13:45] That's.

Phillip: [00:13:46] What's his name though?

Matilda: [00:13:47] Pastor Marshall.

Phillip: [00:13:49] Wow, okay.

Matilda: [00:13:50] Pastor Marshall.

Phillip: [00:13:51] And what was the church?

Matilda: [00:13:52] Ebenezer Missionary. They're still here on Kings Highway.

Phillip: [00:13:56] Okay. And were they a part of EBC or

Matilda: [00:13:58] No, no, no they were not. Gotcha.

Phillip: [00:14:00] You had just seen the ad in the paper you said,

Matilda: [00:14:02] Right. I saw the ad in the paper and I told him I'm interested and he said go ahead. And then when I came back and I said, this is what we have, this is what they're asking for. But if I put down more then the mortgage will be less. So he loaned me some money and, and I paid it back in two years or you something of this sort.

Phillip: [00:14:22] And you said that was how, like once you saw the ad in the paper, how long was that from when you had arrived in the U.S?

Matilda: [00:14:30] About five years. About

Phillip: [00:14:31] Five years. Okay. Yeah. So where were you living those

Matilda: [00:14:32] Five years? Yeah, I was in an apartment on Ocean. Ocean Avenue. Okay. We live on Ocean Avenue. So when I saw the ad, it was a home. I told my boys, we gotta get a home. We all can have a yard and you could put your pool in the yard and you could play in your pool in the yard. I remember that.

Phillip: [00:14:51] So yes. Tell us some about yeah, what your family looked like at that point. Yes. So it was you, your husband and two?

Matilda: [00:14:55] Yes. And two boys. Yes. Two sons, yes. Gotcha. Yes. So in 19 84, 85, 84 August I think we got the, 'cause EBC also had a, I think they had a meeting where they shared, you know, about the homes. So how did I get to EBC? I think I saw an ad in the papers, if I'm not mistaken, there was an ad about homes being built in East New York. I did not know where East New York was 'cause I lived on Flatbush and I took the train and the bus.

So I did not know where East New York was. But we got in, I think we had a car at that time. And I drove around and I saw the building. That was the first building where they had the show house. And that was on Mother Gaston Boulevard. They had the first show house right next to the church. Right next to the church. So I walked in and, and of course when the rooms are empty they look much larger, you know. But Barry didn't even care. I thought it was a home. You had your yard, you know, and Mr. Robbins, Mr. Robbins, I, Mr. Robbins, the area was terrible, were stated. Old buildings rarely run down.

But he says he showed me junior street where I am. And I think that was the second block that they built. And he said the whole area is gonna change. He said, he showed me a picture of what it will be. And I think that kind of convinced me.

Phillip: [00:16:43] So you had to have a lot of faith going in because you were looking toward what will be and not what was

Matilda: [00:16:49] Yes, yes, yes. I said, he showed us, he said this is what it's gonna be like so don't you worry what it's looking like today. And, and I was there to see block by block as they were building, I was already there. So when I applied and we got the approval, at that time there was no lottery, just put in your name and then how much money you make and whatever else, your information. And they called to tell you that yes, you approved, you went in for interview the documents and then you had to wait until, I don't remember, it wasn't very long though. We had to wait before they called us in. So for the property after this, I think I about the second set of homes, people on, I think those in my area did not have lottery. But later down they, they began put in the lottery in because there was so many people applying when they saw the change. That's what happened. Right.

Phillip: [00:17:47] 'cause you were one of the first overall, 'cause Brownsville was the first development.

Matilda: [00:17:50] That's correct. That's, and I think my street was the second street that they, that they, that they built.

Phillip: [00:17:54] Oh wow. Okay. Right. Correct,

Matilda: [00:17:56] Correct.

Phillip: [00:17:56] So I mean, tell us a little bit more about just what it was like initially. I know you were kind of getting settled and they had some like classes for first-time homebuyers and just how did you get oriented in the community?

Matilda: [00:18:07] Right. Well there was not much community at that time, right? Because at that time it was just, I mean, two rows of homes. I think Mother Gaston was built and there was one other one. I think we were the second set of homes that was built. So you're talking about me driving home and still seeing this area of Powell Christopher being built, you know. So it was exciting. I should tell you, when we had our first, and I don't remember when there was a big meeting for all the homeowners and everyone was very excited and everybody moved in. They were planting flowers outside and it was, hi, you are my neighbor, I am this person in here. It was really, it made me feel kind of like back home. Community was, I felt like community.

Phillip: [00:18:58] Yes. Yes. Was that the first time you'd kind of felt that sense of the community you'd had back home since like moving to New York?

Matilda: [00:19:03] Yes. Because when you live in an apartment building, you come in, you close your door and you go inside and you hope you're safe inside there. But when you see people outside, you know, saying hello to each other and who was putting up gates or fences or just planting flowers out there and everyone was was happy.

Phillip: [00:19:23] Yeah, it's

Phillip: [00:19:25] It's such an interesting thing to hear about, you know, these people who like moved into this place where there was nothing and then everyone's like moving in and building their home at the same time.

Matilda: [00:19:33] Yes. You know,

Phillip: [00:19:33] Just such a

Matilda: [00:19:34] Yes.

Phillip: [00:19:34] Enthusiastic period.

Matilda: [00:19:36] It is, it was, it was.

Phillip: [00:19:38] Who were some of your favorite people who you met kind of right off the bat?

Matilda: [00:19:42] I don't remember because you know, again, you know, you say hi and hello, but you really don't know them yet. You know, I mean on, on my block as I stayed on my block over the years, I mean I got to know everybody on my block. You know, things have changed now because some have sold their homes and some have passed away. But we still have community on my block.

And in spite of the challenges we have, I think this is one of the, the best, what is our sewer line kept us connected, but it also helped us build community. 'cause I couldn't see if we did not have that sewer line that kept us connected, that kept us paying dues. That kept us meeting once a month or ever. So once a twice a three times a year, then people like Edith and Rosalind and the others, I don't not met them, you know, so the sewer line is becoming a headache. But I think it did what it had to do, which is bring us together.

Phillip: [00:20:53] That is so interesting. That's the nicest thing anyone said about the sewer line because you're right, right. There'd be no reason to have a homeowners

Matilda: [00:21:00] Association because you know, you come in, you close your door and you go inside. Even people still do this. The end of they move into the community and, and you have to kind of be after them and say, you know, we are a community. We are attached by the naval. I tell them to all the time, you know, but still there are those who of the mine that's, this is my home. I'm a homeowner and I call, I still call it the apartment dwelling mindset. So they come in here and this is my property, this is my home. I come in, I close my door, you know, and, and so to get them to be a part of what's there. And I think also because we purchased our homes at the price we did, which we would not have been able to purchase homes elsewhere. That made us more committed.

You know, I said I could not get a home anywhere in, in New York for that kind of money. It was a brand new home, you know? And then they gave us one year any issues in the home, they would send somebody to fix it. You know? So at that time, people even paying and also because paying for the maintenance sewer line did not come off your pocket. It came off the mortgage, it was attached to the mortgage.

So at that time didn't matter. 'cause you know, you are happy, you have a home, a medium check and see, oh, there's $60 a month extra that I have to pay for the sewer line. That did not, because it did not make much difference. You paid over the year. But as we see new people moving in, paying the regular price for their home is like, okay, I'm in my home. I don't wanna know about you all. I have no interest in community. And, and that becomes a challenge also for us today.

Phillip: [00:23:07] Yeah, we'll talk, I'll ask you some more about kind of that challenge, but we're just interested to hear more about the early years. Kind of like what it was like to just raise a family in that community when the community was really strong, you know, and all of that.

Matilda: [00:23:21] Well, I always liked to get involved, so after I moved in, but of course in the beginning was check. 'cause I was still, I was going to school then I had kids in, in school. So I was juggling school and PTA meetings and, and and other meetings and stuff. And I did join the board at, I don't remember maybe like the first five years or so. 'cause in the meeting we used to have nice meetings. I'll tell you, when we had meetings, which everybody had like, maybe like twice a year, they had general meetings.

We had great turnout. Everybody came. 'cause you know, you have a new home, you are excited, you wanna be a part of it. And unfortunately, I remember one meeting that there was a big problem because the people on the board had thought about purchasing a piece of property. Because I think, I think at that time there was enough money collected from all the homeowners to have enough sitting down in the account.

And I thought, I think it was a good idea today. But at that time it was like, we are not taking any risks, you know, because he said, we have enough money in here, let's take some of this and buy this piece of property just for the association. We could sell it in the future. We could build on it, have our own community center. And that caused ruckus. People were fussing and stuff like that. And 'cause some on the board, I wasn't on the board at the time on the board. Agreed. And some did not agree. So there was a split on 40 since after that time we've never had a meeting with so many people in there.

Phillip: [00:25:05] Wow. Yeah, because there were so many points of view on,

Matilda: [00:25:08] Right. Was we, we were there maybe like five years when I remember that thing happened and stuff like this. So, so I think there was, whatever they, they did, there was some, they they, they fixed. It was fixed up after a number of years. 'cause I think the money was removed already. They had paid for the land, they had to take the money back anyway, you know. So that, that was not a pleasant time for the, for the association because then I think the division bigger at that time.

Phillip: [00:25:40] Mm, interesting. Around what time was that? Like what you,

Matilda: [00:25:42] Maybe like five years we were in there, maybe even less than that.

Phillip: [00:25:45] Okay, so like the early nineties.

Matilda: [00:25:46] Yeah, maybe even less than that before that big division took place. Probably look back in the meetings. I might be able to say around wrong way that happened anyhow. Yeah, yeah. But, but you know, I began to hang out with one. So one, one year, maybe it was around that same time right after this, I think they, we had the, we had an office, right? A few blocks from my house. And then the thing is, my, my work schedule had changed. So I was able to attend the meetings and I, and then I became a member of the, of the board that the Carmelia was on the board also, but I didn't stay too long.

I may have stayed maybe like two years on the board and then work commitments and school and children and their school, I just couldn't/ I think the time for the meetings, I was working at that time so I could not remain on the board. But people like Camelia , people like Irving Dominic, they pushed me. They pulled me. Irving Dominic, may his soul rest in peace. You heard about Irving Dominic? Irving would tell you, “We are going to a meeting in Manhattan.” That's all he says. Picks me up. We go to Manhattan, Trinity Place, Trinity Church. And we met, you know, all the other EBC and Manhattan Together. We had meetings together in there. Also during that time we had a lot of training too. So sometimes on a Saturday we would go to Manhattan for training or EBC at St. Paul's for training.

We had some nice times. Do I have a picture here? We went, where was the picture? There was a picture here. I must put it up. There was a picture we went on training out of town for, for, for the weekend. We had the, the, we had the three associations. It's New York. I don't think they, yeah, East Brownsville. We went on on the weekend for our, our training and with EBC. So EBC always offered training. Whenever you came on the board, that was one of the expectations that there's a one week training and if you could not go to the one week, they would have a one day here, a one day here, one day there and you will expect to attend this. And that was building community, building the people building power and building basically.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because because people who were not, you are not used to going to negotiate. You did not understand or did not would know. But then EBC trained us how to come together, put your money together, put your thoughts together, make some demands, and then go in here and say, this is what I'm asking for. You know, take it or leave it.

Phillip: [00:28:51] Right,

Matilda: [00:28:51] Right.

Phillip: [00:28:52] What were the most important things you learned at those trainings?

Matilda: [00:28:56] Oh, well I learned to sit, I learned that, you know, you, we are, we have what we, we have our requests before we discuss it on every meeting. EBC teach you number one to start your meetings on time and finish on time. If you say it's one hour, then it's one hour.

Unless it's very dire, you go for like five, 10 minutes extra, then you ask permission for the next 10 minutes. So that kind of made it, I like that. 'cause I like structure. I have difficulty with things. You meeting at 10 o'clock, you come in 10 30 and, and I left one church because of this. 'cause I can't start, to me, time is time. You start on time and you finish on time. And, and EBC taught us that you call the meetings on time. If you commit to something, then they expect you to be there. When we go to meetings, we are taught to take control of the meeting. It's all we ask for the meeting. So it's all meeting.

We take the control. When you go all around the corner, we just bring you back to the reason we are here is this, you know, they'll go all over. You just bring them back to the point. That's the reason we are here. And so this is what we have on the table. And come to some understanding and agreement so that I, you know, I learned this from EBC.

Phillip: [00:30:26] And what kind of like entities or officials were you negotiating with at that time?

Matilda: [00:30:30] Oh my gosh, listen, I think I've been to every lawyer in Manhattan. We've been to every, 'cause EBC would tell you, we like to have, what do you call this? Come together as a group when we are going. So we have how many people? We go a small number the first time and you don't listen to us. They make another appointment. We got a larger number the next time. And then we have a, a very large number at this time in here. So, and, and that way television is all over that has been known that we are here, you know, so,

Phillip: [00:31:06] So when you sort of first were getting these trainings and things like, what were some of the main issues that after the training you all were fired up and like, oh, we got to fix this or

Matilda: [00:31:16] Yeah. Well it continues. I mean they, every, it all depends what was happening at that time. Because if, you know, you want a housing or some land and whatever, then we had an action. We going for this, we have done a lot with the, the lighting and the street lights and, and the, the things that benefit the community. Basically, you know, EBC, we have the bigger ones for like, like the last one we had in Queens Power asking for this land in Queens to build, you know, up here.

So that was nice in Queens and we came together with the other organizations to do that. But every, every one is different depending, 'cause when they ask to meet an official and the official, you know, puts you off, then we go in in person, we say we are here and then they give us an appointment. You know, so it all depends on what they look at. EBC I think they are interested in, is in the quality of life in the community, whatever the community needs at this time. And I think the first thing they started with, with years ago, it was the stores, the grocery stores didn't have the quality of foods that they deserve and they had a small action going to the stores and demanding inequality

Phillip: [00:32:50] Like food inspectors,

Matilda: [00:32:51] Right? Yeah. Right, right. So, so you know, they did that, you know, or went in and make, make a picture of all the expired foods in here and then brought it at the table. So, so it, it varies on, on what the community needs at that time.

Teddy: [00:33:05] Right,

Matilda: [00:33:05] Right. Yes. Yes. Makes sense. That makes sense. So I have gone to Department of Buildings, department of Sanitation lawyers because when we were had issues that we needed lawyers and stuff, we would go to different lawyers to bring them of our issues and see how they can help us and stuff. So yeah. But, but EBC's own was basically leaders. Those are the top, we don't waste time going to the servants at the bottom.

EBC goes to the top yet we get to the top, we bring the issues, then they get, get the, those lower down to do the work. But basically EBC said don't waste time with those, you know, people at the bottom in here because although they may get you in, but it's the top one that makes the decision. Right, right.

Phillip: [00:33:58] So do you remember like a big win victory from those times in like the nineties when you first started organizing?

Matilda: [00:34:07] Not really, because although I did go, I was not as involved as I've been within the past maybe eight, 10 years.

Teddy: [00:34:17] Okay.

Matilda: [00:34:18] So really at that time and at that time also there were more building.

Teddy: [00:34:22] Mm. Because

Matilda: [00:34:23] Remember that we did, they did Brownsville in eighties, 80, 80, 82 to maybe maybe 90. And then they went to East New York because they got the land East New York. And then they did new lots, you know, so during that time period, I don't think there was too much once they got the land and they, they got what they had to do. So is after this was built, we said, okay, these are the issues we have in this area.

These are the issues over here and these are the issues over here. You know, so, and then of course they began to go beyond Nehemiah in, in fact look at other communities that are not Nehemiah, but the churches being involved. So we got involved in these areas too. Okay. You know? Right. So

Phillip: [00:35:15] Let's talk about a little bit more about when you got more involved, which was like 2009, 2010?

Matilda: [00:35:22] Right.

Phillip: [00:35:23] Working with Carmelia Goff. So just say a little bit about who she was and how she kind of got you into doing more with the homeowners association.

Matilda: [00:35:28] Right. 'cause in the beginning I did not get, although I was on the board, did not get very involved because I was working, my working hours was con in conflict with the meetings. And so, but then when I changed my job, and I think I used to work in the evenings. So every Tuesday, every Tuesday we met in the office. That time our office had moved from Brownsville to Vandalia, I think after Vandalia was built.

So every Tuesday we would come down to Vandalia and I called Carmelia the Energizer Bunny because I mean, the things she did in spite of her health issues, it's really amazing because she had, we were on the fourth floor, woke up and she, we would come in, we get all the bills coming in, all the mails coming in, went to the post office, got the letters, open them up, get on the computer, put in what came in, put in what, who's owing whatever.

Went to the bank, deposited the cheque, put it in here. It was, it was a lot of secretarial work. We were, we were doing, but, and I liked how she was meticulous in terms of managing the finances. That's one thing. We are very thorough in managing the finances. We did that. We used to have an, a accountant who would kind of, every year, you know, put us stuff in everything together and do the taxes and stuff like this.

He was very unreliable, but Carmelia liked him. So, so she kept him around. She kept him around. But he was, he was unreliable, but he had a very nice spirit and he had some problems anyhow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it worked out for her. 'cause whenever, you know, she got mad at him, he would show up and got the work, got the work done. So I guess, you know,

Phillip: [00:37:29] She could light a fire underneath him. Right, right.

Matilda: [00:37:30] Yes, yes, yes, yes. But, but her, her spirit encouraged me just being there every Tuesday. We were in the office for a number of hours during the work for Nehemiah plus whatever needed to get done after. But she was always, so being with her consistently, I learned the ropes. Basically she taught me the ropes of the collection and, and, and putting it in the accounts, making sure people got the thing.
 
If they called. We also had to man our telephones because in the beginning we had, we, there was somebody we used to pay part-time to come in and do this. 'cause she used to come to the office, receive all the calls, do all the correspondence, and do some of the, of, of the, the book work. But after a while, and gradually, as you know, the finance coming in began to decrease.

So that extra pay payment every week to this, to this employee, she said, you know what, we could do it ourselves. And then we had no employee at that time. So we began doing it our own selves. So we had the telephone where every member of the board was assigned one month where you go in, you dial into the telephone morning and evening to see who called.

If anybody, any homeowner had an issue, they called this number and left a message. So you would go in, get all this messages, pass it on to Carmelia  and I, and that was addressed the next day or the next week and whatever else. So it was a constant monitoring where we have progressed, I should say, to now we have a management company who we pay, which Carmelia  would not have liked because she did not to spend the organization money, but it was just taking such a toll on your time.

And the people called in, when you call them back, they're not there. Leave a message. So at least when they call the the company, there's somebody there who takes care of their needs most of the time.

Phillip: [00:39:51] Right, right. Yeah. That's a lot to ask of volunteers, you know, managing thousands of properties.

Matilda: [00:39:56] That is correct. That is correct. Because that's why when we looked at the, the require requirements for the association that was written before is that it was okay to hire a management company to take care of this. And that's when we went into hire a management company.

Phillip: [00:40:16] Yes, yes. Be curious to hear a little more about why you stuck with Carmelia . Mean, is it just 'cause you looked up to her? I mean, why'd you keep coming in every Tuesday and helping out? Well,

Matilda: [00:40:25] Not just Carmelia . It is, when I'm in organization, I give my all basically, and there was a need at that time, so I just went along.

Phillip: [00:40:35] That's it. Why do you think that is? Why are you so committed?

Matilda: [00:40:40] I guess that's, I don't know, maybe for my mother or just it's in, it. I, I hate, 'cause I hate sloppy jobs. I hate half-done jobs. If I'm in, I'm in. That's it. Yeah, that's

Phillip: [00:40:53] All right.

Matilda: [00:40:54]: That's it.

Phillip: [00:40:55] And then, so I mean, it's kind of fast forward. Carmelia  passed away and so you sort of took up the mantle of president. Was that something that was given to you or that you pursued?

Matilda: [00:41:07]  I had no choice.

Phillip: [00:41:08] Okay!

Matilda: [00:41:08] Because when we, when we met the, all the board members, they didn't know anything about where the thing was, how you put in the things in the file, how you get on the computer. I had to teach Rosalind and teach Mr. how to go in the computer to see how much, if the person has paid, if they haven't paid, you know, so basically it just fell. So when they had the meeting, they just nominated me since I had the, you know, the new home, you know, what was happening in here. At this point, I want somebody else to take on this mantle, but nobody wants this responsibility.

Phillip: [00:41:46] Right.

Matilda: [00:41:47] Nobody want, 'cause it's a, it's a volunteer job and people don't understand. Unfortunately for people we would have, we used to have like once a year for Christmas. So people on the board who are, you know, manning the telephones and even when CMI comes in, because somebody has an issue in their homes, in the water, CMI comes in.

We used, we had two or three of of the board members who would go and see the problem if a CMI comes in or when CMI is there, we go in and see what's happening in here. So, you know, and we met every month for an hour, hour and a half to discuss. So we would have a get together, you know, in December, Christmas for the board members. And of course the bill was a little higher 'cause we went out to eat and people complained, you know, you are having a party, no one recognizes that you are here every month, every week working for the association and just for a meal.

Once a year when we had the meetings, we would tell them, you know, we went on the, oh yeah. Some people would say, oh, you are wasting the money. Yeah. And I mean I know Carmelia had always been very careful in ex in expenditures actually. She spent a lot of her money to buy stuff that never was reimbursed to her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'cause but her heart was the organization, you know. So

Phillip: [00:43:15] That is so hard. Thankless work, it sounds like in a lot of cases

Matilda: [00:43:20] It is. But you know what, I enjoy what I'm doing, so I don't get issue out of it. And then the thing is, I said, listen, I went out like last month we went out to eat. So I sent, I, I put it in the minutes. We went out to eat dinner. You first, I said guess what? Come and do the work. That's all I say. I say, you wanna first friend come and do the work? Right, right. You willing to do the work. We have, we have 15 slots for the board members. Only 10 slots are filled. I got two more yesterday. So maybe 12 or the 12, maybe eight are active. The others, you know, they'll join the meeting and make some suggestions.

But to ask them too, and many of them are still working. So because they're working, I try to say I understand and stuff like this, but we just do what we ever get. Rosalind, myself, Claudel, the treasurer, Mr. Mr. King gets the meals in the post office every week to bring it to the, to the manual company. Clade looks at the finances. I do, I do the bulk of the work, I should tell you because although Claudel looks at the finances, but writing all the checks, making sure CMI is paid, making sure the company is paid, you know, he, he's working too. So I just, you know, we sign the check or checks are are signed by two people.Nobody can, nobody allowed to sign one check. Right. They won't catch it. Right, right, right. So again, it, it's good because your checks on check and balance. So nobody runs away with the money.

Teddy: [00:44:51] Right.

Matilda: [00:44:51]  true. That's fair. That's fair. Because there are people afraid of somebody said no, the two checks, two checks are sent by two people every check. So there's three of us on the checking account. And so I need soon can sign checks. But it, it is, I think it's a lot of work to, to be able to want to do things the right way. It takes time. But I enjoy what I do. I, I am, I like to be involved, but I think there's, sometimes I wish more people would come in and and help, but so far it's not. I asked them to choose somebody else for the management. Rosalind doesn't want it. Neither does Edith, who else.

Phillip: [00:45:38] Right, right. Who else you gonna ask?

Matilda: [00:45:39] Right,

Phillip: [00:45:40] Right. Well let's talk about that a little more broadly, just the change over time. Like you said in the beginning, everyone was really excited. They were brand new homeowners, everyone wanted to be involved. And now you're describing something very different. So what's it like? And you've been there the whole time. Yes. So what's it been like to see the changes and, and what are the issues today?

Matilda: [00:45:57] Well, number one, I think one of the things was that when we purchased the dues was attached to the mortgage. So it didn't bother you. You just pay a mortgage every month. Your mortgage comes off your account or you pay a check every month. So when individuals began to sell or refinance and then that new company took over the mortgage, they did not take, add the homeowners dues to it, the new mortgage companies. So now these people are getting a bill said, I never had a bill before.

So they'll call the office and explain to them. Then they'll say, oh, they don't know nothing for me. This association do nothing for me. 'cause you could explain the sewer line until, so you have these people who over time has been, has gotten disinterested because they did not have this responsibility or they do not see it because it came off before.

Then you have those who have purchased their homes and even in the beginning when the price of the homes or the resale value 10 years ago or 15 years ago was different from what it is today. So they, they would say, oh, when you bought your house you paid $60,000. I paid $200,000 for mine. So I'm not in association. That was for those in the beginning, not for me. And so all these new mortgages are not collecting that $60 payment, which means people have to pay the end of the year. So they don't, some say, you know, have no interest in homeowners association and they don't pay. And you have those within the next past four or five years where the price of homes have just rocketed, skyrocketed. And East New York, Brownsville, that was one of the least desirable areas, has become a high real estate piece of property. So now you have developers that coming from all over, you run from here.

Years ago, especially the Jews, they, they were here before the Jews who owned Brownsville before they ran away, set the place on fire, burned down the place it's call it the insurance money. And now they are coming back. So it makes us a little upset that, you know, you dumped the place and you're gone. Now you're coming back. But now they're coming back and they buy the property. Now they're building these high rises, which makes our home, what is it? What should I say? You know, it defaces the neighborhood. 'cause you know, it was nice to walk, walk down and see a nice row of houses, you know, very similar.

There's a few change at the front. People change the front door. They may have put a gate at the front. But basically it's a nice, now like all over Brooklyn, you have a low house and a high house in between and stuff like this. And the other thing we have is because they are coming in, they don't recognize us, period. They have no interest in the homeowners association. They have no interest in paying any dues. So it's taking energy and time. So I wrote, we had about eight of them that were, they purchased and we wrote them to ask them, you know, let's come to the table because you know you are. And remember that the homeowners association is attached to the easement.

When, when EBC and the city agreed to build over here, there was an agreement that the, the property, the land, the land is attached to the easement. So it doesn't matter what you build in here, you are on the land. But you could tell this to them, they couldn't be bothered. And the people who are purchasing at the cost price of homes elsewhere are saying, I'm not in this thing in here. I bought my house cost, price, I did my house at no discount price like you all did. So you are having different type of people purchasing. And so they are not interested in the organization, not interested in, in contributing and actually have no interest in community period.

Because we've had certain people, like, we have a meeting next tomorrow and we'll send out a blast email or text message and people will tell me, you will respond to me. I have no interest in your organization. I said, I'll say, well actually are you a Brownsville, Nehemiah homeowner? Yes you are. I am. But in that case, you are part of the, whether you like it or not, please review the easement. So say you are part of it.

Phillip: [00:51:21] Right. Do you ever try to explain the history to people like you're a part of this organization, the founder of this community? These homes wouldn't exist if not for the organizations.

Matilda: [00:51:29] We, we do, we do this, well again, it's, it's preaching to the choir because we do this at general meetings, but the person who has no interest doesn't attend these meetings. So we basically have people who attend those who usually attend. You may have one or two coming, but basically the people who have no interest do attend these meetings.

I mean we have, we have 1100 homeowners and the maximum we've had at meetings that be probably a hundred. You know, so you're talking about people who, and even those who know, like those on my block. 'cause we do have a block association. They're all made aware. They talk to me, I tell them. But when you have the meeting, they don't show up. They say, Matilda, you get the news for us.

Phillip: [00:52:18] That's how it goes with leadership, right?

Matilda: [00:52:20] Yeah, Matilda. Oh you, oh, Matilda is there, she's on the block. So she's there. She'll bring the news to us.

Phillip: [00:52:25] Right. You get to be the representative. Yeah. Right.

Matilda: [00:52:28] I mean we do a newsletter and we send it out to every home. You think they read it? And on the newsletter we do every now and again, reinforce that your home is in the association and the reason we are in the association and the sewer line and the easement is brought up over and over and many will tell me, oh, I never read that. I just throw you in the garbage. You know, so, so it's, it's, it is a challenge. And I can see it's getting worse day by day because people are they who, yeah.

Phillip: [00:53:07] So what did you, what do you think would be like the best resolution to a lot of the challenges you've described? Like what do you hope for the future of Nehemiah?

Matilda: [00:53:16] I, I see. 'cause I, I'm thinking, I was talking to Rosalind and Edith long term and our young people who are purchasing homes now, very few have interest in community. And even if they do, they probably have other commitments that they feel is more important. Because even people on my board and I'm saying, well, we only meet once a month and it's already on the schedule. You're telling me I have to babysit. Excuse me. Let your tell your son. I have a commitment. I I have responsibility also. But I say, you know what? The meeting is every, every first, my second Monday of the month, at that time, I'm coming to this meeting. But you on the board, you're telling me, oh, I have to babysit tonight. I said, bring the baby. I said bring the baby. Oh, she, he act up, bring a pacifier. I give you, I give you a solution.

You know, so, so it's, and I can see long term, I, I mean I, I'm retired now, but there's other things I want to do also, you know, well I still get other things done, but I'm just saying, I'm

Phillip: [00:54:35] Sure. Yeah.

Matilda: [00:54:35] I mean I don't know how long I want to be running this organization and even those who are here, because some of them are thinking of moving, you know, to other states, you know, over the years. And so, and if Edith moves and or Rosalind moves, then who's gonna continue this? You know? So I do have concerns about, so one of the things that we had asked the city to do is to connect the sewer line to the city sewer line so that responsibility's not there.

So we are negotiating now with the city. I mean we had to, unfortunately for more than more than 15 years I should say, we were discussing putting liens on property for people who did not pay their dues. 'cause there are people who never paid, 'cause they came in as a second homeowner or people who came in as an original homeowner and after three or four years refinanced. So they've been there for almost for 30 years and haven't paid any dues. So Carmelia always said we would put lanes, but Carmelia is also a, what do I say, a people person and doesn't wanna hurt anybody. So, and each meeting we had general meeting would mention liens.

And those who are paying your dues are saying put the liens on 'cause I'm paying my dues. And then you have one block where one person is paying and 20 odds are not paying. But when something goes wrong on that block, we have to fix it because it's one person who's paying is on this block. So those at the meeting would say, put it on because you know, they didn't pay and I'm paying my dues. So Carmelia always postponed it. And then within the past year, year and a half, we are now putting liens and, and, and we hate to do that because it's next door neighbor.

But the thing is it, since we are already always threatened and we would, we started doing it, some are beginning to pay and some have the brotherly delays. And again, but a lean only is effective if the person sells or refinances. And if they're not doing any one of this and the lien is good for six years, they don't in six years you have to put another lien on. So, you know, so what happens to organization? I'm hoping that if they do agree eventually to connect to the sewer line, that we could probably continue as an organization, maybe decrease the dues and see whether people are interested in their community. And then we could community activities basically. But that is to be seen,

Phillip: [00:57:42] Right? There's a lot that has to be done. Yes. To kind of get back to that place of community that

Matilda: [00:57:46] Yes, that exists. Yes. Because how do you get people involved in community? I mean, we have, EBC has this workers who work with us who go to homes and, and has been doing it, go to homes, meet the people, try to motivate them to become a part of what we are.

Phillip: [00:58:06] And that's Anna London, right? The organizer?

Matilda: [00:58:08] Yeah. She's all organized and she's organized the four four for Brownsville and she's done that. And they may come to one meeting and after this not showing any interest. Well, maybe they have no time. I dunno what it's, you know, I, a lot of our people who were involved are very senior now, so they can't anymore be as involved as before. You know, they may come to a meeting, but if we're brought into Manhattan or running here and there, they're not able to go there.

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we lost a, a lot of the, the seniors who were active before, especially when you call an action, you need people, you know, when you call an action in people to come out. And so since they are pretty much elderly at this point now, or medically unfit, they are not there for the action. So we would need some fresh blood to drag to the actions. And that's becoming challenging. Right,

Phillip: [00:59:08] Right. Challenging. Well, I know there's the, the need for new blood, but the last thing I want to ask you is just, do you want to share anything about the people who, who still are a part of the community? I mean those you have relationships with, like Edith Rosalind, just anything you wanna say about folks who you've met and worked with through the association and through EBC?

Matilda: [00:59:27] Oh, my boyfriend Matthew. Matthew was one of our Brownsville organizers some years back. And I just, I love him 'cause he had such a people spirit just so gentle. You know, I I what I, like, I always say about Matthew, she, he'll call you 50 times and you don't answer the phone. And the one time you answer, he is like, he never called you. He just says, oh, I'm so glad you are here and continue like nothing. You know, I would've said, you know what? I've been calling you until all this time. He doesn't called you. He says, he's just so glad that you answered the call. And just, this is, this is such a, a great spirit of an organizer. And I remember Matthew, but he left. You speak to him? You spoke to him?

Phillip: [01:00:21] I haven't, no, haven't met him. I've heard a lot of good things.

Matilda: [01:00:23] Yeah. Well, he left, you know, he left, he left.

Phillip: [01:00:26] He went to Queens, right? He left and he left there.

Matilda: [01:00:27]Yeah, he left Queens Power. But someone told me, he came down, he was down in New York the other day. He said, you just need a year to just relax and breath. I said, you deserve it.

Phillip: [01:00:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course

Matilda: [01:00:39] You deserve it. Yeah, because he brought, I mean he got all these church organizations in Queens, more than 49 of them in two or three years. I mean, he reached them, he reached the Methodists, he had some the Jews, he got some Muslims. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Power. So, and, and along the way, you know, all the leaders in EBC had been kind of encouraging me. Rob English pulls me all the time. No , pastor Brawley, you know, always glad to. And I think what is, when we came together the day, it was like we have been together for a long time and just look forward to just us being together and, and of course those on my team who I call and always eager to come with me. You know, I certainly appreciate them every day. I certainly do. Gotta keep me going, encourage me. Wonderful.

Phillip: [01:01:43] Is there anything we missed?

Matilda: [01:01:44]  I don't think so..

Phillip: [01:01:45]  Alright. We're only two minutes overtime.

Matilda: [01:01:46] Yeah. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. That's fine. Yeah. EBC,

Phillip: [01:01:50]  I didn't ask permission for your

Matilda: [01:01:51] Yeah, yeah. Permission. That's fine. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah,

Phillip: [01:01:58] Great. Well thank you so much again for doing this. We're gonna leave like just a few seconds of silence. We gotta get the noise of the room, like editing, and then we'll be all done.