Gould Family

Speakers: Phillip, Julia Smith Gould, Edison Gould, Julie Rose Gould, Jessica Gould

Phillip: [00:00:01] Alright. I'm Phillip. Today is Wednesday, March 8th. We're here in one of the Nehemiah neighborhoods, East New York—Brooklyn, New York. And I'm speaking with the Gould family. And if I could have you all just introduce yourselves for the record, starting here.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:00:16] Hi. My name is Julia Smith Gould, and I'm the mother. I'm the wife of Edison Gould and the mother of Julie Rose Gould and Jessica Gould

Edison Gould: [00:00:25] And I am Edison Gould and I am the father. And um, I'm the husband of Julia Smith Gould and the father of Jessica and Julie Rose Gould.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:00:38] He started it!

Jessica Gould: [00:00:39] Hi, I'm Jessica Gould, and I am the daughter of Julia and Edison, and the sister of Julie Rose.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:00:47]  I'm Julie Rose, the one we've all been talking about. And um, yeah, I'm here, I'm excited. Let's get this done.

Phillip: [00:00:53] Wonderful, alright. No confusion about anyone's relationship.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:00:55] No.

Phillip: [00:00:57] Got that--clear for the record. Awesome, well, yeah. Um, Julia and Edison, I'll just start with you and we'll talk all about Nehemiah and the home here. But before that, could you just tell me about, uh, where each of you grew up and what your upbringing was like?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:01:14] I am from the island of Trinidad and Tobago, and I had a wonderful childhood. I'm from a semi big family, I had, um--I have three brothers and three sisters, myself, make four small family of seven and we were pretty tight. And I enjoyed living in Trinidad. I really enjoyed living in Trinidad, because there was just so much freedom, the fresh air, the beach--we lived walking distance from the seaside. So that was wonderful. There was a big river behind our home too. So that was just fun too. And--in...

Phillip: [00:01:59] Yeah, what about you, Edison?

Edison Gould: [00:02:01] Yeah, well um, I'm also from Trinidad and Tobago, and um, I live in a small village. It was named Radix Village, Mayaro. And I am from a really large family. Me too. 
I had four sisters and I had seven brothers. Well, and family kind of shrink now because I had a few lost members in my family, you know, died, you know. But I love Trinidad and Tobago. When I left Trinidad and Tobago, I came to Brooklyn, New York.

And um, after spending like a month, is that I was ready to go back. You know, but um, I came because the job I had, the company, just decided to close up shop and move. So I was out of a job and I just wanted to leave Trinidad and see what the outer world is like. So I decided to come to New York, and that's what have me in New York right now because um, I left and I think, you know, I would come and spend a few months and go back. But when I came and get another job and I know I didn't have a job home, so and when I go back home, I have to look for a job. So I say, you know what? I'll stay for a while and see what it's like. So I started working and I started working. And ever since? I'm still working. So I never ended up going back.

Phillip: [00:03:42] Right, right.

Edison Gould: [00:03:42] And, well, when I was back home in Trinidad, my wife and I were close. We were friends. We were boyfriend and girlfriend. And I left her, I left her back there. And after what I think was like almost like a year or two, she came up. And then we get back together and we started living together. And that's how we end up having this little family, you know?

Phillip: [00:04:09] So let me ask you a couple of follow ups. I mean, it's so interesting. Everyone I've interviewed for this project has originated from a different country, almost everyone. Yeah. So it's so interesting, like the diversity of people who are in the Nehemiah neighborhood. So that's why I asked just a little more about where you're from to kind of illustrate to people from all over the world. So, I mean, growing up the Trinidad and Tobago—for each of you, like, who are some important people and places in your lives there?

Edison Gould: [00:04:36] Well. I would say first my parents, because I learned everything from them. Right. And I also say a few of my teachers, you know. So. I wasn’t into, like, politics, so I never liked politicians. So I never looked up to any politician. I—my family was staunch Catholics so we went to church often. So. A few of the priests that came to the community—I’m kind of close to them, you know, but they were just like temporary, so we might spend like a year, some of them might spend two or three years, you know, but. I always looked up to that—that type of people that was in my life.

Phillip: [00:05:50] Julia what about for you?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:05:52] My mom, my dad, my grandpa. My grandpa was like, everybody’s favorite person in the whole family because he was the only grandparent that we ever knew. So it was fun having him for the years that we had him and the stories that he told us and everything like that. Like you said dear, people in the community that I looked up to? None of my family outside my family it’s just that my aunts—we were very close with my aunts. My uncles, some teachers at school, some teachers at school.

My favorite teacher was Mr. Joe. He died now, but he was my favorite teacher at school because he was such a nice person. Such a good heart. Thinking of Mr. Joe is like Father Mason and Mr. Joe’s buddy as the kind of person he was. Generous, kind, loving, always dear. Fighting for the people of the community, making sure that we’ve got everything that we needed in school and all of that so Mr. Joe was my role model in school. As in growing up—my mom. My mom.

Phillip: [00:07:08] Yeah. What did you learn from your mom?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:07:10] Everything. My mom taught me how to be, a strong and independent person. Because she always liked to say “I want better for my kids, so I’m making every sacrifice for them so that you guys will have better lives and whatever so. Yeah.

Phillip: [00:07:30] And then the schools you were going to there—with Mr. Joe—were most of those Catholic schools?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:07:34] Oh, Mr. Joe was my elementary school teacher which was Catholic, yes. And then we moved on. After that we went to public secondary school and whatever, yeah.

Phillip: [00:07:50] Alright, yeah. And then when, when you two ended up in the US it was Edison first and then

Julia Smith Gould: [00:07:54] Yeah—

Phillip: [00:07:55] And then you came along later?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:07:56] Yeah he came first, he came in 1988 and I came in 1990, yeah. Because, well, I have two dads. Yeah, I have my father and then I have my step father, but my father is my father and my step-father is my dad because that’s who I grew up with so that’s my dad, so. My father was here and he wanted me to come so he fought for me and I came here.

Phillip: [00:08:26] And what was the transition like initially? Like it sounded like both of y’all liked where you were from so what was it like coming to New York?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:08:32] Well, like Ed when I first came to New York I was all excited to come, but when I came and I realized this is not what I’m used to because first in Trinidad, we lived in a house. And when my father told me that I’m coming to his house, I was expecting to see like a house like we had in Trinidad. A single house, a flat house with big yard all around me and all of that.

And I came and I was like in an apartment building and I was like—cause I remember when I walked in, I asked my father—is this the back door that we are going through? And he said, ‘no,’ he said ‘no, this is the front entrance’ because I am not used to this. So I thought I was going to some back door that lead to the house, and he said ‘no, this is home.’ And I was like, okay, I walked in. Walls—walls on both sides, no windows—just windows to the front, windows to the back. I was not used to that. And this was home now, and I came like a Saturday and then the next Saturday I was booing like a baby. I wanted to go back home. ‘Cause I wasn’t happy—this just, it’s like I left freedom to come into a cage and I didn’t want to be caged up. So, yeah. That was hard.

Phillip: [00:09:48] Yeah.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:09:49] It was hard.

Phillip: [00:09:51] Yeah, that’s kinda why I ask about what it was like in Trinidad and Tobago cause I’ve heard from a lot of people who are in Nehemiah, especially folks moving from the Caribbean that you know, where they were from everyone had a house, you know.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:10:00] Yeah

Phillip: [00:10:01] Like just apartments weren’t really a thing so obviously that’d be kind of a culture shock.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:10:05] Yeah, it was a big one

Phillip: [00:10:06] Right, right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:10:07] A very big one. What made matters worse was that my father was living in the basement apartment on the first floor—the first floor well I shouldn’t say basement, but he was on the first floor and. Other people on top of us and I wasn’t used to that. I never grew up having people living above me or right next to me. So that was different.

Phillip: [00:10:29] Right yeah, there’s a sense of insecurity

Julia Smith Gould: [00:10:31] Yeah

Phillip: [00:10:31] and it’s noisy, right, right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:10:32] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:10:33] What about for you Edison, what was the transition to the US like?

Edison Gould: [00:10:36] Well, it was you know. When I first came here, I was kinda—it wasn’t what I expected it to be. Right? And, but. When I first came, I came to live with my Aunt. And she lived in an apartment also, so I was kinda not too happy with it, you know? But with my Aunt, and I love her, so I stayed with her, you know? Until I ended up branching off and getting my own apartment.

But it was a step down for me because all the freedom I had home—a big yard to run around, you know, neighbors who I knew from a mile away—I came to this country, it’s like I’m in an apartment, I don’t even know the person right next door. It’s like, I’m trapped. I'm not accustomed to living like this you know, so it was kind of hard for the first two, three months until I started to adjust myself to it.

Phillip: [00:11:51] So you’re making those adjustments, but were you also thinking we’ve got to get out of here? Like we’ve gotta find a way to buy a home?

Edison Gould: [00:11:57] Well, I didn’t start thinking about that so soon. You know?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:12:00] Yeah.

Edison Gould: [00:12:01] It took some years for us to start thinking about a home because we realized when we got back together and we had our own apartment, we realized, hey, we want to start a family and we don’t want this for our kids. We want our kids to have more room and not to be caged up, so. We started looking for a house. And we just started to sacrifice and try and save some money so we could pay and get the down payment of the house. So we just sacrificed until we was able to get a downpayment on the house.

Phillip: [00:12:38] Mhmm. What was the sacrificing look like? Just working kind of a lot more?

Edison Gould: [00:12:42] Yeah, well trying to work more hours—trying don’t do much spending, you know, and save as much as we can.

Phillip: [00:12:50] Yeah, yeah. What were each of you doing for work at the time?

Edison Gould: [00:12:53] Well, my wife was doing home health aid. I was doing appliance repair.

Phillip: [00:13:03] And when you started looking for a home—

Edison Gould: [00:13:06] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:13:08] When did you become aware of the Nehemiah option and how did you become aware of it?

Edison Gould: [00:13:13] After we moved into the apartment it could’ve been like…

Julia Smith Gould: [00:13:16] Uh, first we stayed a while in the apartment. We rented from 1992 to 2000 when we moved, so yeah. So we spent I think, I think it’s ten years? Is it ten years? Yeah. And because we had Julie and when Julie was like about, let me see… was it 7?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:13:41] Sure, let’s go with that

Julia Smith Gould: [00:13:42] Yeah, five years

Julie Rose Gould: [00:13:44] Can’t do math

Julia Smith Gould: [00:13:44] Five years, so whatever. And that’s when we realized we were in the apartment and then as they were growing older they had no place to play because it’s the sidewalk or we take them to the park and we started to see this is not what we want for our kids because in growing up—this is not how we grew up and we started to look for homes from there on. And seeing that we were young, our savings weren’t the best.

So when we went through the estate people and we started looking at homes, the bank was like, they would tell us that our income and the houses they were showing us—they doubt very much that we would be able to purchase any of those homes, so. But that did not stop us from looking, we still used to go and do the open houses, whatever, whatever. And then my Aunt, like I told you before, she had a friend and it was he who told us about the Nehemiah houses and we sent in the application, we sent the application and that was it. That was in—um—’99—like about, ’98? Cause Jessie was born in ’98, yeah. Like around ’98, that’s when we sent it in.

Edison Gould: [00:15:07] Well we waited a few years before they called us

Julia Smith Gould: [00:15:09] Yeah. Because we sent in the application like ’98 and it was until 2000

Edison Gould: [00:15:14] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:15:14] Before we actually

Edison Gould: [00:15:17] Mhmm, accepted it

Julia Smith Gould: [00:15:18] —Got the house, yeah.

Phillip: [00:15:18] Yeah, that’s a long time to wait, right?

Edison Gould: [00:15:19] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:15:19] Yeah, yeah.

Edison Gould: [00:15:21] We were waiting and praying and waiting and praying, you know?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:15:24] Yeah

Phillip: [00:15:26] Right. What was it like the day you finally got the news?

Edison Gould: [00:15:28] Oh my gosh, like a burden off of my shoulders. God, we’re gonna finally move into our own house, you know? Because the apartment started to get really rough. We were on the first floor and the landlord had rented the upstairs and we had some tenants from hell. If I’m honest. We couldn’t sleep properly at night cause they were running up and down and making noise and so oh my gosh. When we got—when we finally got accepted for the Nehemiah home, oh my gosh. Was a real blessing.

Phillip: [00:16:11] Yeah, yeah. That must’ve been a huge relief, yeah. And you told me you closed in June of 2000 I think and then moved in July 4th?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:16:21] July, yeah. July 4th we moved in.

Phillip: [00:16:24] Right. Amazing, and what did you know from the time you applied—and you’re waiting all this time—what did you know about kinda the history of the Nehemiah homes? How they got here, or what the program was about?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:16:35] I’ll be honest with you, absolutely nothing. Nothing.

Edison Gould: [00:16:40] But then when we started going to church

Julia Smith Gould: [00:16:42] Well

Edison Gould: [00:16:42] We saw the information

Julia Smith Gould: [00:16:44] Well that was like. We were already living in the house already. We were already here when EBC used to come to church and have meetings but when we were living in Mother Gaston we knew nothing about this.

Edison Gould: [00:16:54] So when we used to go to church they used to be talking about Nehemiah? In the church?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:16:58] Well, I don’t even think so, no. That was later on.

Edison Gould: [00:17:03] Okay, okay.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:17:04] That was later on, yeah.

Phillip: [00:17:07] This comes up sometimes

Julie Rose Gould: [00:17:08] I love it.

Phillip: [00:17:09] Different, different versions of history

Julie Rose Gould: [00:17:11]: What?

Phillip: [00:17:12] Right, right, right. So I mean, but yeah, a lot of people have told me that, you know, through a family member or a friend you just kinda heard about it and it’s really a good opportunity. What had you heard about the neighborhood here versus what was it like when you first moved in?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:17:26] This block? Or the neighborhood as a whole?

Phillip: [00:17:30] Maybe both?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:17:31] Okay well. As you know this is East New York. And everybody gives East New York a bad rap. But we have been here for 23 years and I can safely say that I never had a bad time. I feel comfortable walking through my neighborhood. Do not like how it looks sometimes with the streets not being clean and whatever but I’m comfortable in my neighborhood.

Edison Gould: [00:18:00] I’ll tell you, when I first moved to this country and I used to drive around this area, um, this was always like a run down place. A lot of abandoned houses, you know, but since Nehemiah started to buy up the lots and the houses, a completely different neighborhood now.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:18:26] Yeah

Edison Gould: [00:18:26] Because it was like a run down neighborhood, and you used to be passing the street—I don’t know if it was drug addicts or if homeless people but they used to be just all by the street. And they have this barrel and just fire burning. And then they used to have old tires and they’d burn just to get heat—you know—but it was like a real run-down neighborhood. And not until they started to build up these houses then the neighborhood started to rise.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:18:57] Because even when we moved here in 2000, to the end where they have those two big buildings now, that was too empty back in that side it was just like overgrown with bush. The fire department—they used to park their cars in part of it—but the other part of it was just grass. Cause I too used to feel uncomfortable—my kids have to walk down the street because on this side the grass was so high—and then there was a broken down fence and I always used to feel like someone could take my kids inside of there.

So I was happy when they built those two buildings, I was happy, but sad at the same time because—with those buildings being built there—it became kind of harder for us to get back because the fire department was already taking up most of the parks so with people moving in there—it’s impossible to get a park on this street now. But I’m happy that the neighborhood is being built up.

Phillip: [00:19:56] Right, right

Edison Gould: [00:19:57] Yeah

Phillip: [00:19:57] A little later I’ll ask you more kind of about the recent changes, but it sounds like y’all really saw it through the transformation over time

Julia Smith Gould: [00:20:05] Yes

Edison Gould: [00:20:05] Yes

Phillip: [00:20:06] And you had moved in during the last phase of the development, so there were already a lot of homes built?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:20:11] Yes, yes. On this street—it was here. But, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Newell’s down there, those weren’t there yet, because when we moved here, those weren’t big buildings yet, but this was the last set on this area here, and then they started going back to Newell’s and all those places there.

Phillip: [00:20:33] Mkay, Mkay yeah. Alright.

Edison Gould: [00:20:36] Yeah, because where they built most of those houses was just abandoned lots. People dumping garbage and grass growing high and—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:20:44] And a lot of tire shops. Tire shops, yeah.

Phillip: [00:20:49] Right

Julia Smith Gould: [00:20:44] And that whole strip down there was just tire shops.

Edison Gould: [00:20:52] Yeah a lot of mechanics

Phillip: [00:20:54] Right

Julia Smith Gould: [00:20:55] Mechanic places too, yeah.

Phillip: [00:20:57] And what was it like to move in? I mean, on this block, was it a lot of other families who were first-time homebuyers just moving in?

Edison Gould: [00:21:05] Oh yeah, yeah

Julia Smith Gould: [00:21:05] Yes

Phillip: [00:21:07] What was that like and who did you meet, you know, right off the bat?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:21:12] Well, the people that we met right off the bat was Jennifer and Odette, and that’s because they had kids around the same age with our children so, we kind of became quick friends with Odette and Jennifer. And then Patsy at the end there, because she’s a pretty nice lady too, yeah. But we tend to look for the people that had kids because we wanted children to play with kids, that our girls could play with

Phillip: [00:21:41] Right so a lot of new families

Julia Smith Gould: [00:21:43] Yeah and then, they were also from Trinidad too, so it was like, people, you know, like we’re all from the same place because Jennifer was from Trinidad, Odette was from Tobago, Pat—Trinidad, so.

Phillip: [00:21:55] Oh wow

Julia Smith Gould: [00:21:56] Yeah

Phillip: [00:21:58] And then for you two, Jessica, what was it like growing up here—your early years?

Jessica Gould: [00:22:05] Um, I had such an amazing childhood here. I just remember, well first of all, we had amazing neighbors. The children were amazing. We still keep in contact with them too. We have Shaina, and then we used to have Gabby. We always used to—before we had gates up—we would go in the backyard, and just go in each other’s yards and just play with each other, go to each other’s houses.

There were a lot of playdates. Um, and yeah—like, when I think about walking around this neighborhood, we used to have a park that my dad used to take us to, like, up there—I don’t know what the street is called. But there are several like, just entertainment areas to go about. We used to go to the movies over there as well, um, it was just overall very fun. Our family used to come a lot, over the summers, and visit so we got to play with our cousins all the time. Yeah, it was just fun, I remember just walking to the deli and getting Skittles and chips and going to the grocery for small things on Thanksgiving. Growing up here was—it was really fun. I enjoyed it.

Phillip: [00:23:21] Julie Rose, how about for you?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:23:23] I really don’t have much to add, I can’t really top that. I think the one thing that stands out the most in my mind in my childhood is just the freedom that I had. I think I never had to worry about anyone outside trying to take me. I didn’t have to worry about hearing gunshots, didn’t have to worry about any kind of harm coming to my way because I had my own little bubble of safety, it felt like. And no matter what was happening on the outside world, I kind of felt sheltered from all of that and I think it definitely is because of the home and the neighborhood that we built.

I think everyone here on this block knew what they wanted for their kids, and so did a really good job of keeping all of those harmful, negative things out so that we can enjoy a childhood. Cause if you ask anyone on this block what their childhood was like, they instantly light up. We all have so many stories to tell, and I think they had a vision in their mind of what they wanted and they created that. And I think the Nehemiah homes definitely allowed for that vision to live true and live in perpetuity so. I loved my childhood, I have no complaints. It was great, it really was.

Phillip: [00:24:27] Yeah, yeah, that’s beautiful. Could you tell me a couple more stories just about what y’all would do and the mischief you would get into? If any?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:24:36] I think of what children do nowadays, which is stare at computer screens and stare at cell phones and we didn’t have that. So we just had to make the best out of like, nothing. I remember us just digging holes in the backyard

Jessica Gould: [00:24:48] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:24:48] We would just get a stick—

Phillip: [00:24:49] Oh yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:24:49]—and dig for hours and we're like, we're gonna dig all the way to China. And we would just keep digging and digging and digging. And before you know it, the sun was down, it was time to go back. We'd fill it up—and do the same thing again the next day. Um, I really enjoyed that. And we had a pool—

Jessica Gould: [00:25:04] We did have a pool!

Julie Rose Gould: [00:25:04] We had a pool, who would've thought in the middle of Brooklyn in these settlements that we would have pools. We had a big ol’ pool in the yard—

Edison Gould: [00:25:10] Portable.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:25:11] Huh?

Edison Gould: [00:25:12] Portable.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:25:12] Yes, exactly. The inflatable portable one and we would just fill it up and jump in and have a really good time. I think the one thing that sticks out in my mind are the bees.

Jessica Gould: [00:25:22] Mhmm

Julie Rose Gould: [00:25:22] There were a lot of, we had really bad wasps and they like water apparently. And so we had often tried to enjoy our time in that pool, but it was often cut short by the wasps. So you know, that was a fun childhood memory, trying to run away from those. But yeah, that was good. We had a sprinkler,

Jessica Gould: [00:25:38] Mmmm

Julie Rose Gould: [00:25:38] We also had a garden in the back

Jessica Gould: [00:25:39] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:25:40] And we would often climb over the little gate and go into the garden and pick out these vegetables. And it's something I think that they grew up with in Trinidad, like they have all that open space and so could experience what it's like to be that close to nature but in this concrete jungle you can't. And so to have a space and to have an additional backyard on top of that that had trees and grass that you could step on and feel between your toes. Like there was just so many little luxuries that I think back now on that I really did enjoy in my childhood. And it’s, again, because of the space that we were in, we couldn't do that in an apartment.

Phillip: [00:26:17] Mhmm

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:17] You can't grow strawberries from scratch in an apartment. You can't pick tomatoes and pick lettuce in an apartment. But in this home, with this backyard, you could definitely do that. And it's not bigger than like, what? I don't know, what's the square footage back there?

Jessica Gould: [00:26:31] I don’t know

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:31] It's not too big

Edison Gould: [00:26:32] No, no. It’s not that big

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:33] But it was big enough and it was

Edison Gould: [00:26:33] Big enough to have all those things

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:35] Right, it was substantial enough where we could still do all of that. And so, I don't know, those are just some stories that stick out in my mind about my childhood.

Phillip: [00:26:43] Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:44] It was great.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:26:45] Don't forget about the backyard barbecues.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:47] Oh my goodness!

Jessica Gould: [00:26:47] I was about to say all of that

Julia Smith Gould: [00:26:47] Okay, okay, okay—sorry, sorry

Phillip: [00:26:48] Jessica’s got the barbecues

Jessica Gould: [00:26:49] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:50] Yes!

Jessica Gould: [00:26:50] When I think about my childhood, like, first of all, in these houses we have basements, right?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:26:57] Yes.

Jessica Gould: [00:26:57] So when we, when we would go to like each other's houses, like we would go in the basement.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:01] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:27:01] If we were going to like Miss Odette's house and we were with Shaina we'd paint—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:06] Yes.

Jessica Gould: [00:27:07] We'd play with like Nintendo, and like—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:08] Just Dance

Jessica Gould: [00:27:09] All, Just Dance, all those things

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:10] Guitar Hero

Jessica Gould: [00:27:10] Guitar hero, DJ Hero

Phillip: [00:27:11] Oh totally, yeah yeah yeah

Jessica Gould: [00:27:11] All of those things we'd do. And then if we were to go by Gabby, like we'd make up dances and have fun downstairs.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:17] Play with dolls,

Jessica Gould: [00:27:18] Play with dolls, all of that stuff.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:19] Yes

Jessica Gould: [00:27:21] But outside had to be my favorite part

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:23] Absolutely

Jessica Gould: [00:27:24] Because for one, we used to play double dutch, jump rope, all of that stuff.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:26] Oh my god, yes

Jessica Gould: [00:27:27] We used to have a ball play catch, like, I don't know what other balls we to play.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:31] So many scars on my knees and ankles from that

Jessica Gould: [00:27:32] Yes, and I think the luxury of having the space in the backyard was that we could have like birthday parties. And I remember just like—my birthday's in April, so around Easter time, I remember one of my birthday parties, we had an Easter egg hunt

Julie Rose Gould: [00:27:47] It was so much fun.

Jessica Gould: [00:27:47] And they would like hide the eggs all over it. Like all my friends would have to search for it, and just like being able to enjoy barbecues and have everybody outside like eating some really good food. And we used to have a bench—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:02] Yeah

Jessica Gould: [00:28:02] So we were just all outside having a good time

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:02] Staying out late

Jessica Gould: [00:28:03] Exactly

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:04] No curfew

Jessica Gould: [00:28:05] We'd play board games outside 'cause the weather was really nice.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:09] Yeah.

Jessica Gould: [00:28:10] But yeah, like it was just a good—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:14] I wish I could rewind back to it.

Jessica Gould: [00:28:15] I know. It was, it was just really good. The community was great. Like we're all connected on this block.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:20] Yes.

Jessica Gould: [00:28:20] It’s so weird. Like we all come from the Caribbean. I did not learn until—I think—probably around my second year of elementary that one of my friends that I went to school with lived across the street and I did not know that. So it's, it's a pretty, what do you call it? Knit. Tight.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:40] Tight knit.

Phillip: [00:28:40] Tight knit

Jessica Gould: [00:28:40] Tight knit community. Yeah. We all help each other out. If it's snowing outside, we'll shovel each other's snow

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:47] Pick up each other's packages

Jessica Gould: [00:28:48] Pick up each other's packages! If a mail gets mis-delivered, like, you deliver it to them. It's a true community.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:28:54] Bring each other food if you're having an event.

Jessica Gould: [00:28:56] Yeah. Like we'd all be present at each other's barbecues

Julie Rose Gould: [00:29:00] Yeah

Jessica Gould: [00:29:00] And parties and stuff like that. But childhood was really fun. It was really memorable. And we had pets too.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:29:07] Oh my God

Julia Smith Gould: [00:29:07] You did!

Jessica Gould: [00:29:09] Yeah, y'all did good.

Phillip: [00:29:11] Another benefit of the yard, you can have pets

Jessica Gould: [00:29:11] Yeah, we had rabbits,

Julie Rose Gould: [00:29:13] We did

Jessica Gould: [00:29:15] We had turtles, birds—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:29:16] Birds.

Jessica Gould: [00:29:17] We now have guinea pigs.

Phillip: [00:29:18] A whole zoo

Jessica Gould: [00:29:19] Yeah, so it's just been really nice to enjoy all of—all of those things. Y'all did good.

Phillip: [00:29:27] All right.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:29:27] Now I wanna cry

Phillip: [00:29:29] This is so sweet. I mean what—Julia and Edison, what's it like for you to hear just how great of a childhood they had? I mean I know you sacrificed a lot to—

Edison Gould: [00:29:38] Yeah, well, we know when we were growing up, we had so much fun so we wanted that for them also. So that's why we, as we say, as I tell you, we sacrifice and try and get this house and we were so thankful that God blessed us with it, you know? And that they will have some of our childhood also. The experience, you know? We were glad to provide that for them.

Phillip: [00:30:02] Mhmm, right? Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. And I think it's cool like—like you were saying, Julie Rose, is how—it’s what they were used to growing up in in Trinidad.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:30:11] Yeah

Phillip: [00:30:011] So they wanted really create that here. I mean I think that's what's cool about people coming to these neighborhoods from all over the world because, just, more people from more backgrounds expand your imagination, you know, for like what a neighborhood can be.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:30:22] Absolutely.

Phillip: [00:30:22] So I mean I think that's such a big story of the Nehemiah homes. It's like you have New York and everything people expect of New York, but it's like—no, we're gonna make this like where we're from—you know

Julie Rose Gould: [00:30:31] Yeah

Phillip: [00:30:32] What we're used to.

Edison Gould: [00:30:33] Yeah

Phillip: [00:30:33] You know, we're not just gonna live in boxes, you know,

Julie Rose Gould: [00:30:34] Yeah

Phillip: [00:30:35] And and kind of settle for that.

Edison Gould: [00:30:38] Yeah, we’re gonna bring our culture here, too.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:30:39] That’s right

Phillip: [00:30:40] Right, right, absolutely. Yeah. And it just like, I think that's something so special. For you two, Julia and Edison, is there anything else you wanna say just about, kind of neighbors you, you were grateful to know—you’ve been grateful to know—and sort of live side by side with over the years?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:31:02] Well I am a woman, right? So I have friends, I talked with my neighbors, so

Julie Rose Gould: [00:31:12] I was like, where are you going with this? I wanna know.

Phillip: [00:31:16] True, true

Julia Smith Gould: [00:31:16] But ladies think I have lot of friends.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:31:20] Oh, man

Julia Smith Gould: [00:31:20] So I have the other side there. Yes, I have Odette, I have Pat down, right down one house over. I talk to my neighbors, but my favorite is Odette. Yeah. That's my favorite neighbor because she's, at first she just was a neighbor, but over the years she became one of the neighbors—became part of our family. Yeah.

Edison Gould: [00:31:50] Well I was, I was glad that this building that we live on, this building that we move into, had people from where we came from.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:32:02] And a lot.

Edison Gould: [00:32:03] So it's like we left Trinidad but like end up coming to Trinidad again.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:32:05] Little Trinidad

Phillip: [00:32:09] Right, right, yeah y’all lucked out. The Trinidad block.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:32:12] Yeah

Edison Gould: [00:32:13] Our, our—a few of our neighbors were from Trinidad, and we started to communicate with each other and started to get close and it's like we were back home. Because back home we know neighbors for like—a mile away, you know? So I was glad, I was so happy that when we came to to this block that we had a few people from our homeland and we get to know each other, you know? And it was a—a, a joy to have these people around.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:32:48] Yeah, it was and still is.

Phillip: [00:32:51] Right, right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:32:51] And still is because if we are having anything and we invite them, they just don't show up to eat. They all ask, “what can I bring? Can I make a, make a dish? Can I bring a dish?” So it's like a, a real community. Yeah.

Phillip: [00:33:10] Right, right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:10] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:33:11] Yeah. And you mentioned last time we spoke, Roger and Janice as well.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:18] Oh!

Edison Gould: [00:33:18] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:18] Well they weren't here from the very beginning.

Phillip: [00:33:20] Mhmm

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:21] So they moved in like—woo! Ten-plus years, fifteen-plus years. Where were you when they moved in?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:28] Roger and them? Can't be ten, no way.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:28] Fifteen?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:31] Oh wait, they could be right. Really?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:32] Fifteen.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:35] College, so that’s like 2011, 2012?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:40] Yeah, because you had just graduated from Berkeley Carroll.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:42] Damn, that is—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:42] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:43] Oh my god, Jesus Christ.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:45] But um—no, no—they could have been, oh boy. All this.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:47] I know. I'm sorry.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:33:49] They could been there before, before that. Because, remember, Jan—when Gabby and they moved away, they came right after Gabby.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:33:59] Did they?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:00] Yes, right after Jennifer, they bought Jennifer House.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:34:04] Wow, okay. So it’s—it's 10 plus.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:05] Yeah

Jessica Gould: [00:34:07] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:34:07] You’re right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:07] Ten-plus, it’s almost 15 years.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:34:09] That’s insane

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:09] It’s about 15 years. Yeah. ‘Cause Jennifer stayed like—what, five years in the house? It’s so much.

Edison Gould: [00:34:15] It was really, it was so short?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:15] Yeah, they didn't stay there long.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:34:18] Wow.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:20] Yeah, so Denise and Roger, they moved in after. Because we were first and they came a couple of years after, but. I'm so sorry that I forgot to mention them, but yes, they are such wonderful neighbors. Wonderful neighbors. So, Odette first, they are second.

Edison Gould: [00:34:38] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:34:38] Yes. Because Roger is such a pleasant guy. And he always called me sis. So that's to tell you how close our relationship is. And if we had to go away, he will collect the packages, and he will keep an eye on the house, whatever. If we cover the cars outside and the covers blow off, he will come into the gate and cover them back.

And if we go to work and packages are out there, he will pick them up. When Ed goes to work, he will hold parts for Ed and all of that. So, and Ed—we would do the same for them too. So they're really nice people and I would not trade them for anything in the world. And when you talk about having good neighbors? That’s Roger and Denise.

Phillip: [00:35:26] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:35:28] Yeah. Because they always tell us they know that they were so—they don't have any kids. So there was—they always said that they were so happy, you know, to be around to see our children grow up because—just the other day we were talking and he was saying, I remember when they were smaller, it was Easter time and they were—they were having the Easter egg hunt in the backyard.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:35:46] Yeah, you could see. Yeah, that’s right

Julia Smith Gould: [00:35:47] We used to look at them outside having so much fun. So it is like our kids became their kids. So it—they really do look out for them. They do. They do.

Phillip: [00:36:01] Mhmm. Yeah. That’s special. And another aspect of the community here, I know for y'all was, you know, church and—and getting connected there, and and getting to know Father Mason. So just tell me a little bit about how you found that church community.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:36:15] Okay, so—where we were living in Mother Gaston, Julie Rose was like, about a year older when we discovered Our Lady of Mercy because we used to attend—um, what was that church?

Edison Gould: [00:36:26] Umm—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:36:27] Holy Cross?

Edison Gould: [00:36:28] Holy—yes. Holy Cross.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:36:29] Holy Cross.

Edison Gould: [00:36:30] That's over way up in—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:36:30] Yeah, up on Church and Rogers.

Phillip: [00:36:32] Mmm.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:36:33] Yeah. Rogers?

Edison Gould: [00:36:34] Yes. Church and Rogers.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:36:35] Yeah. And then when we had Julie, because she was baptized at Holy Cross and then, one day I was walking because the doctor was up the street. So I was walking and I said to Ed, I saw a church! And it’s a Catholic church and I said, “we should go there instead of having to go all the way to Holy Cross.” And we started to go to Our Lady of Mercy. And Father Mason was not the priest when we were there. It was Father Sweeney.

Edison Gould: [00:37:05] Father Rob before Sweeney?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:37:06] No, no, no

Julie Rose Gould: [00:37:07] No, Sweeney was first.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:37:08] Yeah, Father Sweeney was first

Edison Gould: [00:37:09] Sweeney, okay

Julia Smith Gould: [00:37:10] And then we had a couple of other priests and Father Mason came like—in what year? Boy. Hmm? You were already in Berkeley Carroll?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:37:19] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:37:20] And you were in Brooklyn Jesuit prep.

Jessica Gould: [00:37:22] Yeah…I think I was on my way out, though, of that when he came

Julia Smith Gould: [00:37:27] Oh, I can't remember what year Father Mason came. But when he became the, the priest here, we—we fell in love with him right away because he was such a beautiful person and still is.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:37:42] Mhmm.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:37:43] Because other priests, you know, he took a long while to warm up to them. But he was such a people person that—people immediately started to take to him. And we, over the years, we formed like a, a tight bond with him because like I said, he's just—he wasn't just our priest, he became a friend of our family. And it was so nice having him there throughout the years. Because even if you had a problem and you wanted to talk to somebody, Father Mason was there. He always like, he listened.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:38:20] Mhmm.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:38:21] He just listened. You know, some people listen and do a whole lot of talking. S—but he gave you time to talk. He listened. And then he would tell you, “well this is this, and what there.” And then seeing that the relationship that he had with the youths in the community was so lovely because before, the kids, the youth used to come to church.

But when Father Mason came there, he drew more kids in to the church. A lot of them came because of him. Because he started doing so much in the church for them—he formed the youth group. And they used to have bingos, and take them on trips, and all that good stuff. So—yeah.

Phillip: [00:39:11] Yeah, yeah—let’s hear from the youths. What was it like growing up—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:39:13] Put us on the spot

Phillip: [00:39:14] In the church?

Jessica Gould: [00:39:17] When I think about growing up in the church, I automatically think about Saturday classes.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:39:22] Yes.

Jessica Gould: [00:39:22] Having to get my first communion and my confirmation. It was good. I met a lot of new people outside of like school and outside of like friends here in the neighborhood and it was—I don't know, it was fun. The Saturday classes I, I hated waking up early for them

Phillip: [00:39:45] For sure.

Jessica Gould: [00:39:47] But we learned a lot. We had a lot of great discussions, and I also had built strong connections with my teachers, who like, are like low-key aunties now.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:39:59] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:40:01] ’Cause they're still there—some of them are still there, some of them have passed on. But they were just really sweet and they understood that we were kids and they knew how to make Saturday classes fun, but also make sure that we're understanding what we're learning. And then we used to have—I just remember there being activities, like movies that we would go see or like toy drives and all those things.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:40:025] Yeah

Julia Smith Gould: [00:40:26] Yeah Three King’s Day

Julie Rose Gould: [00:40:27] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:40:28] Yeah. And I loved all the priests that we had. They just knew how to make church—again, fun and interesting. What else? I just love the events like first Communion and confirmation, like getting to dress up and then walk down and then do the whole ceremony. But then also the after-parties that we would have here and then having your family celebrate you after that as well. Very memorable moments. Growing up in the church was not like a burden, like it was a learning experience and helped me grow closer with my relationship with God. And I am grateful that my parents had introduced me to the church. 'Cause if it was up to me I probably wouldn't have gone. But that extra push is definitely needed and I willingly go now. So it feels good to know that I had a good time at church.

Phillip: [00:41:20] Yeah

Jessica Gould: [00:41:21] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:41:21] Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:41:22] If I can add one thing on top of that, I think when I—when thinking of religion, it's often something that's forced down your throat and you don't really have a choice. And if your parents are one faith, you are automatically one faith. If they're practicing this thing and they believe this thing, then you automatically by association are doing that. And I think one thing I appreciated about the church was that it always felt like a conversation. I think no matter who the priest was, they would come down into the congregation and they would just stop and talk and ask questions.

And it never felt like they were preaching at me. I think there are many moments where they showed how human they were and they would talk openly about the mistakes they made. And I think as a child, seeing an adult who you think is supposed to be someone who's perfect, and someone who has to have things figured out, say “No, I don't, I, I don't know the answer and I don't always get things right.” It just made me feel much better as a person. I think it took a lot of weight off of my shoulders to be this perfect thing.

And I think because I saw that everyone around me who I held up to this really high pedestal say I'm not perfect, it made me feel much better being myself and making mistakes and just knowing that I'm not always gonna have the answer. So I did appreciate that about the church. I think every adult did a really good job of affirming me when I need to be affirmed, but still holding me to a very high bar and letting me know this is the expectation, you're not going to be like anyone else in this neighborhood. You're going to overcome that. And I think I appreciated them—again—having giving me the space to just be a child, like my sister said, make mistakes and still grow and uplift and uphold. So.

Jessica Gould: [00:42:57] Cool. And I also like to add, when I think about Catholicism, I feel like when you tell someone that you're Catholic, they're just like “what?”

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:05] Mhmm, yeah.

Jessica Gould: [00:43:05] It is just such a strict religion. But what I loved about our church specifically was that faith was not linear.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:14] Yeah.

Jessica Gould: [00:43:14] It was very different. People had very different beliefs

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:18] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:43:18] And—again, showed their humanness

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:21] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:43:22] But also just like—an understanding of others in communities.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:25] Yes

Jessica Gould: [00:43:27] And, um—I feel like there's a lot of things that I don't agree with. But again, like it was a conversation

Phillip: [00:43:35] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:43:36] And there was never like, oh my God, like that's what you think. But it was very open, um—and again, of a place of understanding and not judgment, which I truly appreciate because I will state my opinion every time.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:48] You will.

Jessica Gould: [00:43:49] And I will hurt feelings.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:43:50] That is for sure.

Jessica Gould: [00:43:52] I'm glad that, like even if I were to state my thoughts it was accepted and challenged, but in a respectful manner. And that I feel comfortable knowing that yes, I'm Catholic, but there are some things that I don't agree with. But also at the same time, like, that's not telling me that I'm not any less Catholic than you are, but like we just are different and that's okay. So that acceptance was phenomenal—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:44:17] Yeah

Jessica Gould: [00:44:17] And helped me in my development as a person growing up and going elsewhere.

Phillip: [00:44:22] Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I ask about church just because when you talk about the organizing that led to the building of the Nehemiah Homes, I mean that was such a big thing. It's like these nei—a lot of people are moving out of these neighborhoods, the churches are dying. You know, it was a lot of those churches that came together and said, you know,

Julie Rose Gould: [00:44:38] Yeah

Phillip: [00:44:38] How are we gonna say these neighborhoods? As I'm sure y'all know, but just to kind of reiterate the history for the recording. So I mean it's special to hear about how people moved here and then went to those churches and had the positive experiences y'all had. And what I like about—I mean I'm not Catholic, but what I like about the Catholic churches I've come to know sort of through the organizing work is that like, they are really intentional about building community.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:44:59] Mhmm.

Phillip: [00:45:00] Like not just developing the people in the church but also like, you know, the Catholic church literally put money into like building the Nehemiah homes.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:45:06] That's true.

Phillip: [00:45:06] You know, like they really kind of put their money where their mouth is with that and—

Edison Gould: [00:45:10] Mhmm, mhmm

Phillip: [00:45:10] And just so much, and someone like Father Mason who's such a kind of like champion of the people and and wanting to make sure that, you know, these parts of the city have a political voice and things like that. So yeah, I mean I think that all ties back to church like, like y'all said and just how it kind of helps people develop as leaders and helps like shape communities. At least here, not necessarily where I'm from, the churches didn't do any of that, but it's like, it's great that there, there are places where that happens and I think it goes against some people's stereotypes of the Catholic church—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:45:41] Yes

Phillip: [00:45:41] Like you said, you know, it's just strict. It's just about like orthodoxy and things like that. Like, a very community centered sort of approach to religion. Umm, let’s see, lemme check my notes real quick—so I mean with the history of how Nehemiah came to be, what, what do y'all know now about kind of that history and what does it feel like to be a part of that history? Let’s start with—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:46:05] No, it's, it's a good feeling because when you hear what different people tell their stories about how they come, came about to owning these homes, everybody have a story to tell and it's just interesting to hear other people views about it. But I am so happy that Nehemiah allowed us the opportunity to have this home because these were low-income homes so they made it accessible for people. You don't have to own a million dollars to get one of these homes.

They made it, the down payment was so low. So as long as you had that money and you were chosen—chosen, okay, because not everybody had one, you were chosen. So I'm thankful for them because who knows where we might have been? Yes we would've had a house, but it might have not have been here, it might have not have been a mortgage that we could have afforded. So the Nehemiah homes, they were, the mortgage was pretty good because when we moved, when we bought this house, our mortgage when, when we, when I used to tell people the stories, like our mortgage was like $565 a month.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:47:21] Wow.

Phillip: [00:47:21] Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:47:22] Look at that, must be nice.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:47:23] A month. So when I used to tell them my—when I take my kids to school and I told em “we are live in a Nehemiah home and this is what we are paying a month,” they’re like, “you are lying, Julia, because I'm in an apartment and I'm paying $1,200 for a month for an apartment and you have a whole house and you're telling us that you're paying $565 a month?” Yeah. That's what Nehemiah did for us. So I would highly encourage anybody that wherever Nehemiah homes are being built, if you can try to get a house, please do. Because you just don't buy a house. You become part of a community, and not just the one that you live in. The whole Nehemiah community, because they do so much.

They have—in the summertime, on that block over, they have the people that live in the Nehemiah homes, they have like workout classes. Like if you wanna come and do aerobics in the morning or exercise in the park with them, you go there. They have workshops for the homeowners so that you're always on top of stuff, they invite the politicians that come into the community to talk about ways that, you know, we could help build our community even further. There's a lot. There's a lot. And I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful. Yeah.

Edison Gould: [00:48:51] Well, um, I don't have that much knowledge on who Nehemiah was and what he did, but as far as I figure out is that the church is trying to follow in his footsteps. So that, and I, I, I—kind of figured that that Nehemiah used to help the poor, and the church is trying to do what he did and I want, I'm so thankful for the church for what they did because if the church did not have this Nehemiah program, we might not have been in this house today.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:49:27] It’s not just our church. It is, I think there's five churches because it is the Catholic church, then they have that  church down there. They are part of the Nehemiah organization too. Then that thing is, you could tell there’s more.

Phillip: [00:49:42] Yeah, I think, I think in the eighties when it started there was a group of maybe like 30 churches involved, and I mean St. Paul Community Baptist Church—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:49:50] Yeah, that’s over there, that’s over there.

Phillip: [00:49:52] Is a really big one that's still a really kind of strong supporter and there, the pastor there has always kind of really been involved in organizing, but yeah. Sort of a whole coalition of churches.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:00] Yeah. But I'm talking about the five main ones—

Phillip: [00:50:03] Right, right

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:03]—in this area.

Phillip: [00:50:04] Yeah, sure, sure. Right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:04] Yeah

Phillip: [00:50:05] Absolutely, absolutely.

Edison Gould: [00:50:07] So we have a time, time go for having the church there to assist us and we were able to purchase this house.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:15] Yeah. And we never even knew that Father Mason was under Nehemiah—part of the Nehemiah Village when he started talking about it. And I was like, oh my gosh, this might have been fighting for this for years. Even before we were dreaming to be homeowners. He was behind the scene fighting to have—to see that this—

Edison Gould: [00:50:36] Come about

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:37] Come, yeah. Comes to reality. So he was always part of it.

Phillip: [00:50:42] Right. Yeah, that's a big point of the project. Just kind of to like, lift that up with folks like him who have been around these neighborhoods a long time—that this is didn't just happen overnight, obviously. Right.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:51] No, no, no

Edison Gould: [00:50:51] Yeah

Phillip: [00:50:51] There's like a lot of people who fought a long time for the, the first developments and then every development is like such a political fight to,

Edison Gould: [00:50:57] Yeah

Phillip: [00:50:58] To actually make it happen.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:50:59] And to me, every time they do a new one, they do it better because those in Mother Gaston, they were some of the first ones. And then ours is, I think, we have one of the best sets. Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:15] I do like these a lot, I do

Edison Gould: [00:51:16] Yeah

Julia Smith Gould: [00:51:16] Yeah

Edison Gould: [00:51:16] And they kind of, you know, they are really improving in the standard of the house from the previous set, you know?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:51:24] Have you ever been to one of the old ones? The first ones with the kitchen as soon as you, you walk in, you walk in, it’s—

Phillip: [00:51:31] Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:51:32] Yeah

Phillip: [00:51:32] I've seen several of the layouts, 'cause I've been to just about every neighborhood now**. **

Edison Gould: [00:51:35] Oh, okay.

Phillip: [00:51:36] But yeah. Jessica and Julie, what about for you? Just your sense of the history of the community and what it's like to be, be a part of the history?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:43] I'm gonna be a hundred percent honest, I couldn't even spell Nehemiah if you asked me to.

Jessica Gould: [00:51:46] Right.

Phillip: [00:51:47] It’s all good

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:47] I know nothing about the history, you guys, I kind of just am like—

Phillip: [00:51:50] So—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:51] I'm blessed. Yay.

Phillip: [00:51:51] Right, right, right. No, that's great, that’s great.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:54] I don’t know anything

Julia Smith Gould: [00:51:54] I'm being honest too—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:55] I’m so sorry.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:51:56] I don’t know, I mean, live in it.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:51:57] Yep, mhmm. I should be so much more grateful.

Phillip: [00:51:59] No, no we don’t think that—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:51:59] But I never really sat down and researched it.

Phillip: [00:52:03] Right, right

Edison Gould: [00:52:05] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:05] But like, like I don't even know who Nehemiah is—

Phillip: [00:52:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [00:52:09] I just learned he was a person

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:10] But I guess that he was the one that—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:52:10] I was like, wait what?

Phillip: [00:52:011] What does that word mean?

Julie Rose Gould: [00:52:12] Since when?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:13] I guess that he's the one that funded.

Phillip: [00:52:14] Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:52:15] No clue.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:15] He put his money.

Phillip: [00:52:17] Yeah, no, it’s interesting—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:18] Yeah

Phillip: [00:52:18] It's interesting to hear the different like interpretations. I mean I've learned about it 'cause I've been studying up for this project, and—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:23] So Phillip, you tell us—

Phillip: [00:52:25] I’ll you it's funny, we'll get, we'll get it on the record. So Nehemiah was a, he was a like a Jewish scholar and leader from way back. So, I mean there's a story about Nehemiah in the Old Testament.

Julia Smith Gould: [00:52:35] Yes. He was a builder.

Phillip: [00:52:37] Yeah, he was a builder, right.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:52:38] I didn’t even know that

Phillip: [00:52:38] So he, when—one of the times when the Jews got kicked out Jerusalem, I think by the Romans, Nehemiah kind of like led the people back to rebuild the, the temple, the walls of the city. So I mean, no one believed it could be done. It was this huge thing. The city had been destroyed and he had the belief and the ability to organize people to rebuild.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:52:56] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:52:56] So taking inspiration from that story, the organizers from the churches, you know, both the priests and the pastors, but also just people in the community, right, who were, who were sticking behind while others were leaving the community. They said, well we'll take inspiration from this story and we'll rebuild the walls of our community. You know—

Edison Gould: [00:53:13] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:53:13] Take these empty lots, build homes. And I mean, historically speaking, it’s a—it’s so impressive because nowhere in the US has something like that been done, like, successfully.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:53:23] No

Edison Gould: [00:53:23] Mmmm

Julie Rose Gould: [00:53:24] That’s so true

Phillip: [00:53:24] Like we hear so much about affordable housing, especially nowadays,

Julie Rose Gould: [00:53:26] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:53:27] You hear about blight in parts of the city—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:53:29] Yup

Phillip: [00:53:29] And like, why are these lots empty? Why aren’t we using this space? And there's just so many political complexities around how to get that done and these folks essentially just pulled together, you know, beginning in the eighties and pushed to make it happen.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:53:39] They did

Phillip: [00:53:40] They got the mayor to sell them the lots for like a dollar an acre or something crazy. The churches donated a bunch of money, so they raised millions of dollars to build the homes.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:53:50] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:53:50] And Father Mason told me, may—it was Mayor Ed Koch back at that time—

Edison Gould: [00:53:53] Mhmm, mhmm

Phillip: [00:53:55] He was like, definitely hesitant about approving this plan, but they kept pushing for it. But Father Mason was like, he basically, he thought he was giving us the rope to hang ourselves—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:54:03] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:54:04] Because no one thought that it would succeed—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:54:05] Possible, yeah

Julia Smith Gould: [00:54:05] Yeah

Phillip: [00:54:06] Because nowhere else had this kind of thing succeeded. And not only did that succeed, you know, the first homes of Brownsville, but then obviously as y'all know, they did subsequent developments, they've kind of replicated this

Julie Rose Gould: [00:54:15] Yup

Phillip: [00:54:15] Model for building homes. They replicated it in other parts of the country.

Edison Gould: [00:54:18] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:54:19] So it's just this huge that, you know, I mean in Denver we talk about affordable housing all the time. Like why can't we do a Nehemiah, you know, like everywhere, it’s like—why are we not doing this in other cities? So that's kind of the historic significance that yeah, I don't think, you know, not just people who live in the neighborhood, but anywhere—just like don't know about kind of, you know, the significance like, in terms of across the US and this being done—

Julia Smith Gould: [00:54:42] They're still building.

Phillip: [00:54:43] Right, right. And it's still going,

Julia Smith Gould: [00:54:45] Still building.

Phillip: [00:54:45] Absolutely, absolutely.

Julia Smith Gould: [54:46] Have you ever been through the phase over there by Gateway?

Phillip: [00:54:49] Yeah, Spring Creek?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:54:50] Yeah

Phillip: [00:54:50] Yeah, absolutely, absolutely—

Edison Gould: [00:54:53] Like, I said, Nehemiah left a legacy behind.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:54:56] Yeah, yes

Phillip: [00:54:56] Right, right, yeah yeah yeah. No, and I appreciate y'all sharing with me your, your part of that legacy because I mean, that's the most exciting part. It's like, they created places where families could grow up,

Julie Rose Gould: [00:55:07] Right, right

Phillip: [00:55:08] You know, and then do the work of creating a community. You know, like as long as you kind of provide the space, like, people are people and do the rest, you know?

Julia Smith Gould: [00:55:16] Yeah

Phillip: [00:55:16] People just wanna have a place to live and and create community. I wanted to go back to something we mentioned earlier, which is just like, the stigma around East New York. There was a stigma when y’all first moved in here. There's still a stigma.

Edison Gould: [00:55:27] Mhmm

Phillip: [00:55:27] So I mean, Julie, maybe I'll start with you 'cause you had a lot to say about this last time, but just

Julie Rose Gould: [00:55:32] I did, I was so passionate about it and I hope I can do it justice now. I think back to when I first went to Berkeley Carroll, which is a school in Park Slope, very affluent neighborhood. And when I first went there and they asked, “where are you from?,” and I said, “East New York,” it was kind of snickers. And I didn't understand why people were laughing, I didn't understand why people wanted to—I just, the—if you say you're from Park Slope, if you say you're from Williamsburg, if you say that you're from any other part of Brooklyn, there's no questions asked. You say East New York and suddenly it's just this big, "Ooh this should not be spoken of. What are you doing here? What, how could you even afford it?” And I think they knew of East New York as a place that was, I guess—

Edison Gould: [00:56:16] Run down

Julie Rose Gould: [00:56:13] Run down by crime. Run down by heavy drug usage, very dirty. Just nothing good comes from East New York. And it hurt because that's not at all what I knew East New York to be. As we said earlier, it was full of people who were very hard-working, many of them single mothers, many of them coming from nothing and able to pull together what they can to make a name for themselves. That's what East New Yorker was for me. But for them it was the total opposite, and I think they went off of what they had either heard previously, what they had seen on the news. And I mean it's very easy to do that.

And so when people hear East New York, they see that one thing. When I'm here in East New York, I see something totally different. When I look at the way in which my parents have, again, come from nothing and have purchased a home. And when I look at people like my sister, who, the world thinks very little of, but is making such a great name for herself. When I think of Shayna, who started off as a friend and is now like a sister to us, who again, the world is not really thinking the best of but is now out here working in Pixar, making movies. Those are the kinds of things that I wish people saw when they saw East New York.

I think it just bothers me that even to this day, you know, East New York is changing, but people often don't think the best of this community. And I think that is the one thing that motivates any of us to keep doing what it is we do. It's just proving that stigma wrong. I think none of us, if given the chance, would fall victim to any of the stereotypes that are associated with East New York because we know we just have to do our due diligence and prove that wrong. And so I'm really thankful that there are things like Nehemiah that exist that show even in the darkest of places there is still light to be had. And I think this is just a prime example of people overcoming adversity, banding together, and just doing something and making something really great. Not just for themselves but for the people who come after them. So that's like where my mind was last time.

Jessica Gould: [00:58:25] Umm, for me. I feel like even though Julie and I are only like five years apart—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:58:28] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:58:25] My generation—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:58:30] Dunno if it's a different generation—very different from her generation.

Jessica Gould: [00:58:34] So when I too went to Berkeley Carroll and I told my friends that I was from East New York—but this is also a predominantly white institution, right?—so you can count how many black people there are in the class and that these—my white friends—had black friends, they too also came from this community because the world is very small. Umm, so when I said I’m from East New York, they'd be like, “oh you live in the hood.”

Julie Rose Gould: [00:58:55] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:58:56] Okay, great, that's what you guys know about East New York. That's fine. However, I feel like when I think about East New York, I'm thinking about like, this little bubble here. And it's crazy because once you leave this street and you go up that street, it feels very different.

Julie Rose Gould: [00:59:13] Mhmm

Jessica Gould: [00:59:14] And it's still all East New York. But when you start getting to like—closer to where our church is, and I don't know where Diana lives, I don’t recall those houses, umm—but where all like the project buildings are, they would consider that East New York as well. And again like that's what they're envisioning. They're not thinking about this area over here with these houses. So even now when I tell the people that I work with that I live in East New York, they look at me like “what?” Because the way that I speak, the way that I look, the way that I present myself is just like—

Julie Rose Gould: [00:59:47] Absolutely.

Jessica Gould: [00:59:47] You don't live here. Like this is not what we think of when you think of East New York, which is beyond me. However, again like—I’m not gonna lie, we do have a lot of work to do as a community in East New York. I've witnessed a lot of crazy things going on in this area, but what area doesn’t? Of course this area would get a lot more publicity than others would, so. That’s fine. But I think that this is a great place, we have a lot to offer. There's a lot of growth happening in this community. Like there's a lot of new things coming up that you wouldn't even expect to come here—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:00:23] Yeah.

Jessica Gould: [01:00:24] Which I love. Like Brooklyn Blend on the corner. Crazy! People are just like, “there's a Brooklyn Blend here?” Yeah we have a Brooklyn Blend here! And all of these different affordable houses that are going up. Another great opportunity. I think that everyone deserves a house to live in and should be able to afford it. And I'm glad that our community is offering that for others. So I think that although there is a lot of stigma around East New York, we are turning the tables on what that looks like and are doing the complete opposite.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:00:57] And like—

Jessica Gould: [01:00:58] Yeah. Yeah, go ahead.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:00:59] I think it's super inspirational for people coming up under us. Again, like you said, the stigma of East New York still exists to this day even though we have proved time and time again that we are not what we used to be. I think it's really, I think it's incredible that people growing up under us can see how we've made something for ourselves and how our parents have, you know, gone on to purchase homes.

How people have moved out and gone on to do really big things for themselves. I just think when you see what's possible, you then attain it. I think if you're only told the negatives, you will only achieve the negatives. If you're told you will only go this far, then you will only go that far. And like, I brought up the fishbowl analogy. The fish—do you want to be a fish in the fishbowl, or a fish in a pond? And I think we're showing time and time again that we are the fish in the pond. East New York is expanding and it's growing and I think the things that people can attain is also so much grander than we've imagined.

And because of that, your—crime still exists, yes, but I think the stories that are now coming out of East New York are much more inspirational and stronger than what they used to be. Like if you turn on News 12, you're seeing all the murals that are going up in the schools. You're seeing all the kids who are—this little girl from East New York just—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:02:08] The sneakers!

Julie Rose Gould: [01:02:08] Made her own sneaker line!

Phillip: [01:02:09] Wow.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:02:10] Like that would've never been something that we publicized a long time ago. And is that because of Nehemiah? No, but I think Nehemiah definitely plays a part in that 'cause again, it's people making—people being given opportunities to make something for themselves. And I think when you look around and you see people in your community doing that, you're inspired to do the same thing. So. That’s that. I'm finished now. I’m gonna be quiet.

Phillip: [01:02:32] Love it. Anything to add for you two?

Edison Gould: [01:02:35] Well, at the beginning when I was at the apartment, right? Um, but my line of work, I usually go into different buildings. So I go to the different apartments to do repairs so, when I was living in the apartment and I’d go to do any repairs and they'd ask me “where you live?” I say to them, “Brooklyn.” You know?

Julie Rose Gould: [01:03:08] Yeah

Edison Gould: [01:03:09] I never used to say East New York.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:03:10] Yeah.

Edison Gould: [01:03:11] But since after I left the apartment and I got this house, you know, whenever anybody asks me where I'm from, I say East New York

Julie Rose Gould: [01:03:21] Same.

Edison Gould: [01:03:21] Because I have more experience in them to how the place was before. And I see the changes, the development, and the development is for the better. So I wanna make people know that I live East, I live East New York.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:03:38] You're proud

Edison Gould: [01:03:39] You know, because I'm proud of East New York, now, the way the changes were made. And I'm happy to be living here, so—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:03:47] And it’s still being made.

Edison Gould: [01:03:49] I'm not going to downplay my—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:03:51] That's it. My neighborhood, my home—

Edison Gould: [01:03:52] And downplay, my place, and—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:03:55] You know, like, Williamsburg—East New York is up-and-coming.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:04:00] Mhmm.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:04:01] One day we are gonna be like Williamsburg

Julie Rose Gould: [01:04:01] We are.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:04:02] People from everywhere will want to be a part of each New York because as long as they keep improving the community, like building all of those new buildings, building the malls over there, new supermarkets and then other stores are gonna keep coming, the community's going to keep building itself up and people are going to move in.

Edison Gould: [01:04:25] Oh yeah.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:04:27] And East New York is going to be an even more beautiful place. I mean, yes we have crime. Yes. The neighborhood might not be the cleanest. There's a lot of drug use because we see it. But then again, that's not everybody in East New York. That's just a small part of East New York. So what people have to do is like really open their eyes and see what—

Edison Gould: [1:04:52] What’s good in East New York

Julia Smith Gould: [01:04:53] Yes

Julie Rose Gould: [01:04:53] Yeah

Julia Smith Gould: [1:04:54] See the good

Edison Gould: [01:04:54] And not the bad

Julia Smith Gould: [01:04:55] Instead of looking at all the bad, see the good that is coming out of East New York. Because we have teachers, we have doctors, we have lawyers, we have people making movies, this is all East New York.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:05:11] That’s right.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:05:12] We have nurses, we have ___name___ who is um, a respiratory therapist. So we have people that know good things are coming out of East New York. And one day, it is going to be something even more special. I think so. But with all the changes that are coming, there’s also going to be a backlash.

Phillip: [01:05:38] Mm.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:05:38] Because the more they improve the community, the more they improve the neighborhood, people that cannot afford to live, they are eventually going to be—

Edison Gould: [01:05:47] Pushed out.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:05:48] Pushed out. And that's a frightening thing. That's a frightening thing because my biggest fear is that with all the changes that is going on in this community, a day will come when those project houses over there, somebody with a lot of money will purchase them and privatize them. What is going to happen to these people? Because when they build them over and whatever, these people are not gonna be able to pay the rent.

And that's frightening. Not just those people—somebody with a whole lot of money could see that if they build bigger buildings here, they can make tons of money. We could be pushed out too. So it's frightening. I'm happy that it's changing, but with change, that change is coming with the cost. And I might not see it. My kids might not see it, but generations after—it might feel the difference, they're gonna feel it.

Phillip: [1:06:44] Right, right. And you kind of transitioned for me, that's what I was gonna ask about next is just—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:06:49] Oh, sorry,

Phillip: [01:06:49] No, no, no, that's, that's where I wanted to take the conversation because it's an important conversation to have. But I mean, so what are your—you mentioned some of your concerns, you know, about the future of the community and then alongside that, like, what are some of your hopes for the community? And I'll just ask that to each of you, going around.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:07:05] Well, I would like to see East New York, you know, to continue to grow and turn into something even more beautiful. And it would be so nice to one day step out and I could say, well okay—there’s a Macy's over, oh! We have JC Penny, it would be nice to have a Macy's over there. Or—I want this community to just blossom into something beautiful so that when people hear of East New York, they're going to stop saying “mmm.” Now they're gonna say “I want a piece of that. I want a piece of that.” And that's like how everybody want a piece of Williamsburg—20 years from now, this is what I want East New York to be like.

Phillip: [01:07:46] Right.

Julia Smith Gould: [1:07:47] Yeah. And I hope that the crime will come to a point where they could like—lower it or control it even more. I don't wanna see police, policing in my street every single day.

Julie Rose Gould: [1:07:59] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [01:08:00] I want. So the people themselves have to change. And if they're willing to make that change, I think East New York could really be a better place. But it's not just, it is, all of the people have been wanting that change or the majority of the people have been wanting that change. Because—Ed could tell you this—when the, when—in our villages in Trinidad where we were growing up, we didn’t just leave it to the sanitation department to clean our streets.

On the weekend, the people, the community came together, and we would clean the streets from one end to the next. And I think if people could just learn to take more pride in their surroundings and don't wait for the sanitation department to do the work for them…if you have a store there, come out or pay somebody to have the front of your store nice and clean because this is something that I don't like seeing. I live here, but I don't like walking out here. Because this—I think that they could do better out here. And I don’t…I think the politicians could do more because you come into our community and you sell us your lies and after you get our votes, where are you? Where are the promises that you made to keep a better cleaner neighborhood? That's not happening, so. Everybody have to be held accountable in order for East New York to really prosper until into something beautiful. We all have to do our part.

Phillip: [01:09:32] Sure, sure.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:09:32] You all have to.

Phillip: [01:09:34] Yeah.

Edison Gould: [01:09:36] Yeah, yeah, well um. I just am hoping that the community is going to develop for the better and not for the worse. Because I would like to have a diverse community. I wanna have, I mean say, some people are gonna be rich, some people are gonna be poor, some people are gonna be middle class. But I would like to see everybody could, you know, communicate with each other and interact with each other and have a normal community where everybody could get along, you know? And don't be looking down at somebody because you have a little more than them, you know? And so I’m just hoping that in the future, it’s gonna be a change for the better, for the people, you know? So I'm just gonna hope and pray for that.

Phillip: [01:10:33] Sure, sure.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:10:34] It's going to get there.

Phillip: [01:10:36] Yeah—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:10:37] It's going to get there—hopefully.

Phillip: [01:10:39] Yeah, absolutely. What about for you Jessica?

Jessica Gould: [01:10:43] Uhh—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:10:44] Not the uhh!

Jessica Gould: [01:10:48] Umm—yeah, I’d just like to echo what everybody said. Like there's just so much possible growth for this neighborhood and this community. Like, I’m young, and to be able to experience all of those changes. I’ve seen so many changes happen already. And I think it could only go up from here and it's only gonna help us become better people with multiple opportunities and multiple resources. But also having that access that we didn't have once before has been amazing. To know that you don't have to go to a specific neighborhood to get a specific product if—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:11:30] Yeah

Jessica Gould: [01:11:31] If you could just get it right here. Like that's, that's an amazing feeling. 'Cause I feel like everyone should be able to access those things and it should not be just granted for certain people. So yeah, I think with time and with people that are investing in us, but also for us to be investing in us as well. I think there's just so much East New York can become—again to change our name, but also for people to feel comfortable living here. And for others to move in and continue to make this community grow. So I'm looking forward to any growth for this neighborhood.

Phillip: [01:12:10] Sure.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:12:11] Yeah. And I think I would like to see them do a little more for the youths of the community, offer a bit more for them. Places that they can go and be themselves instead of having to choose the street. I think I’d like to see more of that in East New York. Safe places for kids to go and just be kids.

Phillip: [01:12:32] Sure, sure.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:12:32] Just be kids.

Phillip: [01:12:34] That’s important.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:12:34] It’ll be nice like, to know that my neighborhood have like a facility where the kids could go and do the rock—the wall, do the rock climbing, and have a big arcade of games for them to play and all—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:12:45] Yeah

Julia Smith Gould: [01:12:45] I wish and hope that one day that we'll have these things for the kids.

Phillip: [01:12:52] Yeah, absolutely. Julie, I know you had some, some thoughts on this last time. Kind of the double-edged sword of,

Julie Rose Gould: [01:12:56] I know

Phillip: [01:12:57] The development is good, but you also have some concerns.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:13:00] I hate to be the Debbie Downer here. Didn't wanna bring the mood down.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:13:03] But that's okay, that’s alright

Phillip: [01:13:04] No, that’s alright, yeah—

Julie Rose Gould: [1:13:05] Because like, of course I do see the power and the value of, you know, developers coming in and providing new buildings for new housing, for new individuals, young professionals who want to come in. But I think these young professionals that are coming in are at a—like, tax bracket that is very high, which—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:13:25] Yes

Julie Rose Gould: [01:13:25] Ends up pushing up the prices of

Jessica Gould: [01:13:27] Mhmm

Julia Smith Gould: [01:13:27] Yes

Julie Rose Gould: [01:13:28] Many things that used to be affordable to us here. And like Jessie said, when we first got that grocery store and I was like, “oh my gosh, whole wheat flour, vegan cheese!” Like it was great to see that. But then these new developments go up. Landlords want people to fill these spaces, and the people that they're asking to fill these spaces are bringing a lot of money. Once we see that, that's going to of course hike up the prices of other goods. I mean if you're making this “X” amount, you can afford to pay “X” amount. Sometimes $7 for flour, sometimes $10 for vegan milk. It's just a lot. And I think it makes these things that we were once really excited to have no longer accessible to the people who need it most.

Julia Smith Gould: [01:14:11] Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:14:11] And I think while people who like—again, I'm thankful for the development of this community—I do think it's alienating many groups. I think the elderly is the first one I think about. If they were the ones supporting themselves for a long time and now suddenly gas prices are going up, grocery prices are going up, and all these bills are going up—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:14:32] Right

Julie Rose Gould: [01:14:32] And they're not working, how are they gonna afford that?

Julia Smith Gould: [01:14:34] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [01:14:34] They're going to be obviously be priced out and that's what these people want. All these LLCs want for them to be priced out so they can buy the homes, break it down, build up something new, or sell this at a really high price for someone who's willing to pay it 'cause they are willing to pay. East New York is becoming the new hotspot. And so I worry about that. I also worry about like the dynamics of the people within the community. I think there are those like my parents who have been here and have worked to create a name for themselves and so it's like, you have them. People looking in, it's like, well that's not fair.

I don't have that. I want that, hmm. And so you're just gonna have these weird dynamics between the groups of those who have versus those who don't. And I think it becomes much more apparent when gentrification happens 'cause now there's a lot more people who have. Who have even more than we have. And so now I'm looking at them, like, you're taking the little space that I have—that’s not fair. They're looking at me like, well you're taking the space that I want and I deserve—that’s not fair. And the people on the outside, like my sister said, who aren't in Nehemiah and aren't in these affordable homes are like, well that's not fair.

We've been living here forever and we don't have what you guys have. And so I just think it creates a lot of dissent within the community and I think we don't always have a space to say what we're sharing and so we just walk around angry at each other. Walking around upset—walking around pointing fingers. And it's just, I don't know. I'm thankful for it, but I also think it's creating all these problems that I don't necessarily think people are spending enough time thinking about because the cost don't outweigh the benefit.

Like I think these according—not, let me not speak for anyone—but, I do think that problems that I bring up in the grand scheme of things are minor. I think what they want is what they want and this unfortunately is a side effect and we have to suffer—no one else does, and I think that's unfair.

Phillip: [01:16:25] Yeah.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:16:26] That's where my mind is.

Phillip: [01:16:27] Yeah

Julie Rose Gould: [01:16:28] But again, I'm not saying that I'm anti-anything, I just—

Phillip: [01:16:30] Sure, sure

Julie Rose Gould: [01:16:30] Want us to think through like, the long-term effects on the people in these neighborhoods that are left behind.

Phillip: [01:16:35] Yeah. And you said something powerful last time, which is like—kind of the history of the neighborhood leaves with the people who built it—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:16:41] Absolutely.

Phillip: [01:16:42] So those people aren't able to live here, like—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:16:43] No

Phillip: [01:16:43] You sort of, you literally lose history.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:16:45] Their stories are not here. I think the stories that have inspired all of us to make the change and have inspired all of us to go about and become the people that we've become. You want to go visit these people and you want everyone to have that opportunity. And yeah, when they're gone, the history is gone, the stories are gone. And then what is East New York? A bunch of high rises—

Julia Smith Gould: [01:17:02] Mhmm

Julie Rose Gould: [01:17:03] A bunch of new young professionals. And that's not at all the essence of what this community is. I think people should look and see where we come from and let that then take them through life and let that be their inspiration. But when that's gone, what's inspiring you? I don't know, I just think your community is the backbone and the foundation for any strong person. And once that's gone, like who are you falling back on? So. I agree. I definitely stand by that to this day. It's been a couple weeks and I'm still thinking the same thing. Absolutely.

Phillip: [01:17:37] Well—no thanks for naming those issues, and I guess we’re not gonna solve them right now.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:17:41] No.

Phillip: [01:17:41] But I think that is kind of the work—when we talk about organizing, you know, I mean that’s…I’ve spoken to a lot of the presidents of the homeowners association and things like that. And that's really what's on their mind, is—one, how do we preserve the houses that we build, you know?

Julie Rose Gould: [01:17:54] Absolutely.

Phillip: [01:17:54] And then how do we create more communities like this during this time when New York wants to build up, wants to build, you know?

Julie Rose Gould: [01:18:02] Mhmm

Phillip: [01:17:02] Right. Like you said, luxury high rises for young professionals, um.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:18:05] Absolutely.

Phillip: [01:18:05] So yeah, no I think it’s—that's become a focus of the project for me is you know, not only recognizing the history and celebrating now, which there's so much to be celebrated. And I think we have in this conversation but also, you know, that awareness of what the present looks like. Umm, is there anything we missed about anything? That's all my questions.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:18:26] I don't, I feel like we covered it all and some.

Jessica Gould: [01:18:29] Right?

Julie Rose Gould: [01:18:31] I've learned a lot sitting here this past hour. Just like, oh wow.

Phillip: [01:18:35] Great. Any—any closing words or reflections on just what it was like to have this conversation?

Jessica Gould: [01:18:43] I love any reflective moment, just to think about the past—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:18:48] Where you've come from, absolutely.

Jessica Gould: [01:18:49] Yeah, where you come from. It's just great to think about like where you started and where you’re at now, and just thinking about all those changes—either positive or negative that have occurred—but also just like how grateful I am to just be able to experience it all. It has definitely shaped me as a person, and I'm glad that we've had the opportunity to live in this house and be amongst all of these people 'cause they definitely have a direct impact on my life. So I'm glad that we had this conversation.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:19:21] Yeah. I think it definitely gives me direction, I know which way I'm going. I think it's hard to know where you want to go if you don't first, like you said, look back on where you came from and look back at the history and…it just, it makes everything that I do even more impactful because I know the shoulders that I'm standing on to get to where I'm going. And so when I do feel like I'm faltering or I feel like I don't know which way to go, I do appreciate these kinds of conversations that kind of ground me and bring me back to reality. So I'm thankful for this, I am. It's crazy how something as simple as a house could do so much.

Jessica Gould: [01:19:55] Right.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:19:57] And have such a big impact on your trajectory in life. I think that's incredible. It truly is. And it shows the power of like, why it's important to have something to call your own in a place like New York. You think it's impossible, but it's not. And like you see the value of it.

Jessica Gould: [01:20:14] Yeah.

Phillip: [01:20:14] That's the point of the whole project right there—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:20:14] Right

Phillip: [01:20:15] Is what you just said. So appreciate you beautifully summarizing that.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:20:19] Of course.

Phillip: [01:20:20] Julia, Edison, anything, any final words?

Julia Smith Gould: [01:20:24] No, I just want to say that, you know, I'm happy that I said yes to Father Mason because—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:20:30] I know

Julia Smith Gould: [01:20:30] Because when he first asked us about doing this,

Julie Rose Gould: [01:20:32] You said no for so many years

Phillip: [01:20:32] What!

Julia Smith Gould: [01:20:36] But you know, 'cause we did not know what to expect.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:20:40] Right

Julia Smith Gould: [01:20:40] But this is something beautiful. And I hope that one day just as how the four of us—the five of us is sitting here—telling the story—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:20:49] Right

Julia Smith Gould: [01:20:50] I hope that maybe 10 years, 20 years down the road, somebody will be sitting at the end of the table listening to our story. Listening to our story. So I know, I just don't want it to end here.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:21:03] Right

Julia Smith Gould: [01:21:05] I hope that this conversation is bigger and something beautiful.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:21:09] It will be.

Julia Smith Gould: [1:21:09] And Phillip, whenever you’re in New York, again, don't be a stranger!

Julie Rose Gould: [01:21:13] No!

Phillip: [1:21:13] Alright, appreciate y’all.

Edison Gould: [1:21:15] Yep, yep—Phillip, I just wanna thank you for the little experience we just had here. You know, and, I think this is all because of a, a higher power that's over us—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:21:26] Absolutely

Edison Gould: [01:21:26] That’s having this sit down and conversing, you know. So thanks a lot for little experience we just had here.

Julie Rose Gould: [01:21:35] I know.

Phillip: [01:21:37] Thank you all so much, seriously. I know this is a new experience, um—

Julie Rose Gould: [01:21:40] It was

Phillip: [01:21:40] And I'm a stranger. So appreciate you sharing.

Jessica Gould: [01:21:44] You’re family now know.

Phillip: [01:21:46] I appreciate that. It means a lot. I'm gonna cut off the recording before I start crying.