Yeraldi Perez

Zacca Thomaz: Today is April 20, 2023. This is Diana Zacca Thomaz from The New School. I’m interviewing Yeraldi Perez from CASA in Mount Eden in the Bronx, and this interview is for the Parsons Housing Justice Lab’s Oral History project. Yeraldi, thank you so much for being here. It’s really wonderful to talk to you. Let’s start by talking a little bit about your background, where you were born and raised and what that was like.

Perez: Sure. I was born in East Harlem at Metropolitan Hospital and lived with my parents and my sister in East Harlem up until I was five years old. When I was five years old, my family decided to move into the Bronx, and we lived in the Southeast side of the Bronx. So, then it’s like Woodstock, Mott Haven area of the Bronx, until I was in my early twenties, when I was already in college and my parents moved away. So, for most of my life, I lived in the Bronx by Saint Mary’s Park. I moved to Yonkers when I was in college, and then when my parents moved away, they moved out of state, I moved back into the Bronx to 167th Street. Here in the Mount Eden area, the Grand Concourse area, and then moved to Pelham Bay for a couple years and now I’m back in Yonkers. I moved to Yonkers during the pandemic with my family.

Zacca Thomaz: And what was it like? Do you have memories from when you were still in East Harlem and then moving to the Bronx?

Perez: Yeah. So, it’s really interesting because I started school in East Harlem, so pre-K and kindergarten. All of my schooling was in Manhattan. So, I either went to elementary and middle school in East Harlem and then I went to high school in Harlem. I did college at Hunter College, so, in Manhattan as well. It was interesting because we lived in the Bronx, but a lot of my experiences were spending time with my cousins or my friends in Manhattan or East Harlem in Harlem. I’m super fond of the apartment that I grew up in, which was in the Bronx. It was a four-unit building. It was huge. It was a really old building, but a huge apartment. I think it had five bedrooms, a living room, a kitchen, bathroom, a tiny room that–it was a closet but actually big enough to be a room. I have a lot of memories growing up there. One of my uncles, aunt, cousins moved to that same building. I have a lot of memories of that apartment growing up, playing with my cousins, going to Saint Mary’s Park. Saint Mary’s Park has one of the entrances, it has a huge rock and all the kids in the neighborhood use it as a slide. I have very vivid memories with my cousins, the one that I grew up with, like in the same building, and when people would come over, like my other cousins or friends would come over, going to that park and sliding down that rock or going to the track with my dad. My dad would run the track, and I would play inside the track, because they had a little playground or exercise area. I would play there with my cousins, so I was in eyesight view. Yeah. So, I love the neighborhood. I have a lot of fond memories of that space.

At this point, the last that I’ve known of that building–like I said, it was really old and by the time that we moved out, we specifically moved out because we were having a tremendous amount of housing issues. I definitely understand that perspective—There were, I think the last few years, especially, when I was in my senior or junior year of high school, we started to really see the impact of the neglect of the building. There were those two winters we pretty much didn’t have heat. Hot water was very hard to come by. I remember my mom would boil or leave water in pots before she left to work or we would have to do it. I would sleep with double sweaters, double pajamas, socks on, and the thick Mexican blankets that have a tiger or some sort of animal on them [laughs], because that was the warmest. At some point, our kitchen ceiling caved in, part of it, we had, we started to have really bad issue with vermin at the end. It was it wasn’t a regulated apartment. And now looking back now I know, and I have looked into the history of the building. It wasn’t necessarily regulated. The owner, when we first moved in there, they knew us very well and had maintained the apartment pretty affordable. And as it switched between owners—I think it had switched between two or three owners—by the time that we left, the rent had more than doubled, for sure.

[00:06:48] My parents at the time were undocumented. My mom was a street vendor, and my dad had a number of different jobs. He did bodywork on cars. He also worked for a company that sold Dominican products to supermarkets. He had a number of jobs. He was a factory worker before then. It wasn’t like we had the money to necessarily pay that rent. So, I definitely know that at some point it became unsustainable, between the increase in rents and, because it wasn’t regulated, the landlord could increase rents as much as they wanted once our lease was up. And also with the conditions, it got pretty severe.

Zacca Thomaz: Where were your parents from?

Perez: Both of my parents are from Mexico. My dad is from the smallest state in Mexico, Tlaxcala, and my mom is from the Pacific Coast, she’s from Guerrero.

Zacca Thomaz: Did they move together to the United States?

Perez: No, they didn’t. They actually met working at a factory in the 1990s. They worked for a factory downtown for clothing. My dad was ironer, and my mom sewed or put pieces of the clothing together. They worked together, they became friends, and then they started dating, and then they had me [laughs]. Yeah. I have one sister. My sister was in Mexico at the time. So, my mom—actually when she was three months pregnant with me—went back to Mexico, got me. And then we all moved to East Harlem, or they moved together to East Harlem, because both of them actually lived in East Harlem.

If you’re a little familiar with the history of East Harlem, 116th is well-known to be a center for East Harlem, especially for Mexican folks. They both lived on East Harlem on 116th, but on different avenues, and both worked at the same factory. They eventually moved together with us and then we moved to the Bronx. Yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: And do you know why they moved from there to the Bronx?

Perez: We all lived in one building. By all of us, I mean multiple folks from my mother’s side of the family and also on my dad’s side, my aunt. But as more folks started to get there, you know, it gets crowded [laughs]. Some of us lived in shared apartments. And I think my parents wanted to just make more space for us and create their own space at home. So, they decided to move to the Bronx.

Zacca Thomaz: Wonderful. It sounds like when you move there, the first years were a good part of your time there. You had really good memories and you liked the neighborhood and the building. But then things got worse, with time. Do you remember for how long you were living there, until college, you said?

Perez: We lived there from 1997 until I would say 2012. It was probably my sophomore—No, my junior year, I believe. Now I’m losing track of time. It was either my sophomore or freshman year in college that we moved, around that time. I graduated from high school in 2010, so it’s probably 2011, 2012. And we moved there in 1997, because I was five already.

So, I mean it, it wasn’t glamorous, but I love old buildings and architecture and just the character that it had, it was a huge apartment. It had French opening doors. The apartment was–What do they call them, the rail, is it the railway apartments? The apartments where rooms connect through doors? All of that as a child was very interesting. And we got to play because, if you’re playing tag with your cousins you can run around in circles through the multiple rooms at the same time, right? So yeah, I have really fond memories.

Like I said, my mom was a street vendor for about ten years. For most of the time that we were there, she was a street vendor. I have vivid memories of her waking up super early. She sold tamales and champurrado, atole, all of that stuff, in Chinatown. I have vivid memories of her, in the mornings, waking up to the smell of all of that cooking. And getting ready—my sister is seven years older than me—so my sister would help get me ready. I would either go to school with her or my aunt who would take me and my little cousin—who was a year or two younger than me—to school. Yeah, just walking through the neighborhood. By the time I was probably in sixth, seventh grade I started going to school on my own. I remember walking through the neighborhood and getting a butter roll at the deli, taking the train together. Some of my friends that went to middle school with me actually lived close to the train as well. So sometimes we would meet there and then take the train together. And like I said, one of the biggest pieces of memories was definitely St. Mary’s Park, because there’s a lot of memories of me going with my friends or my cousins or my sister to the park and enjoying the time there.

Zacca Thomaz: Amazing. You talked a bit about the changes in the apartment where you lived in with time. Did you notice any changes in the neighborhood during the time you lived there?

Perez: Yeah. So for a big chunk—I would say at least half of the time that we lived in that building—Like, if you go on Google Maps or you take the train—So the Six train was nearby and also the Two and Five are nearby and the Two and Five is above ground, so you can see the apartment as the train is going into the next station, from 149th Street to Jackson Avenue. It’s a very narrow building. It literally looks like it was cut in half, like sliced down in half. It was one singular building, and then on either side was just empty lots. Then all the way at the corner down the hill—because it was a bit of a hill—there was a church, and then on the other side at the end, there were houses. There were apartments, but there were smaller apartments as well. And now that I understand more about housing, I think they’re like Section 8 apartments specifically, like, HUD [U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development] apartments. And then behind there were more buildings in the back of it. But for a lot of it directly on either side of the building, it was just empty lots.

Then I would say probably in the mid-2000s, like 2005-ish, they started constructing houses. And so those houses got bought, and the last that I heard was actually that they built—So the space of the building that I lived in, it was the building and then a parking space. And from what I heard, they recently built a new, smaller building on the parking lot space. We definitely started to see more development over time. And that was again early 2000s. I would say in the last five to seven years, there’s been a lot of development, just around the neighborhood. When I was growing up there, there was a lot of empty lots. The last time that I went back there was like: now there’s a college, a piece of a campus is there. A lot of chain restaurants are now coming into the space—which, if you know anything about The Hub, a lot of the stores were more local stores, mom-and-pop stores from the neighborhood. Or, not necessarily mom-and-pop, but like stand-alone stores. They weren’t big chains stores. So yeah, we definitely started to see more development specifically on the block that I lived in, and then over the years—the times that I’ve gone back—there’s been a lot more commercial development. And I think specifically around The Hub, like where the trains meet at 149th Street. There’s been a lot of commercial development, corporate development, yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: How do you see these new developments, these changes? How do you feel?

Perez: I think it’s hard because it takes a lot of the character from the neighborhoods away, right? I know that it’s helpful, and it creates more access in some ways for people–or at least it feels that way–for folks. So, for banks coming in—I think there’s even a Starbucks now on The Hub, which I could never imagine that ten years ago. I know that some folks feel excited about that, because it means more access to resources. I think something that is always a question is: To the expense of what? At what expense are these resources coming in? Because if it means that folks are being displaced, priced out, that street vendors are being targeted more, that mom-and-pop stores are being displaced as well. You know, it’s not necessarily an access to a resource in the same way, right? Just the character in that area goes and then also the people, right? Like what made the neighborhood the neighborhood leaves as well. I know that more south of that neighborhood, there’s major development happening. I think there’s like a multi-million [dollar] development on the waterfront in the South Bronx. And the prices are like nobody that I grew up around, or the people that I knew, would be able to pay that even now, even today. My mom, like I said, was a street vendor. My dad had a number of jobs, and thinking of paying even $1,700 for a one-bedroom is insane. Yeah, I think the narrative is always portrayed in a way like people don’t want resources, if people from the neighborhood fight that development. And I think people want resources, but not at the expense of them having to move or losing their homes, right?

And so when I think about the work at CASA, and the work that we did especially around the rezoning [of Jerome Avenue], that feels very connected to my personal experience growing up in the Bronx. And even going back further to East Harlem. You know, we were the first kind of people to move to the Bronx, from my family. And now I would say that probably only three or four family units from my family –my mom has a pretty big family–are left in Manhattan, in East Harlem, because Harlem was so heavily gentrified. And now most of my family lives in the Bronx. Either in Pelham or actually in this neighborhood [Mount Eden]. I have a lot of aunts and uncles that still live here, and some have actually had to move because they were also, again, priced out. So yeah, I think that those connections I make consistently and feel true to like my experience and also what we’re seeing today.

Zacca Thomaz: Absolutely. Tell me about when you moved here to Mount Eden. You said it was after college?

Perez: Yeah, it was during. It was my senior year of college. So, my parents moved out of state to Iowa. It’s a big transition. I decided to stay here to finish college, and I just didn’t want to move to Iowa. As a true New Yorker, I find it hard to imagine myself outside of it. I moved to 167th Street between Sherman and Grant, so it’s just past Sheridan. It’s on the east side of the Concourse. And I lived there for maybe like ten months to a year. And I moved there in January of 2015, and I actually started at CASA [in] October of 2015. So, when I started at CASA I was still living there.

I lived there with friends of the family who knew that my parents were leaving. [They] have a close relationship with my parents and wanted to help the transition, as I was still a college student. I was only working as a housekeeper during college to sustain myself. So, it’s different because this was my first time living in the Southwest Bronx. Like I said, most of my time was in Southeast or by then in Yonkers. Again to the connections around the housing conditions, the conditions weren’t the best. I remember at some point there was a leak, literally. So that building had two entrances. The one that was closed off—and I lived on the first floor, next to one of the main entrances—the one that was closed off—and there when it rained, it would leak, heavily, near the roof of that entrance. And it was myself and two families. It was multiple kids and multiple adults living in that [apartment]. Part of it was because of the price for the apartment. I remember the folks that held the lease to that apartment asking questions about—They needed to do a lease renewal, and that apartment is actually rent stabilized. And they were trying to increase the rent because of the MCI [Major Capital Improvement]–I think that they claim that they did. Which, looking back is really interesting, because I found out that building was owned by one of the landlords that we targeted heavily during our “No More MCI” campaign, which targeted these increases that landlords make when they say that they do a Major Capital Improvement in the building. I didn’t know much or anything at all at that time. But folks were scared because they were undocumented or had jobs off the books, and so didn’t feel like shaking the table or arguing with the landlord about the rent. So, by then it was hard for me to stay there because I couldn’t make up the difference. So, I decided to move to Pelham in order to move with my aunt, who owns a house in Pelham.

Zacca Thomaz: It was just some months after you moved to Mount Eden that you joined CASA, you were saying.

Perez: Yeah, I moved to Mount Eden in January of 2015 and then I started at CASA in October of that same year.

Zacca Thomaz: And how did that happen? How did you hear about CASA?

Perez: [Laughs] So I graduated in May from Hunter College. I had been looking for jobs. I mentioned I was working as a housekeeper. So basically, when we moved to Yonkers, my mom stopped being a street vendor and started doing housekeeping. And when she moved to Iowa, she passed on some of her clients to me. I stayed as a housekeeper for those apartments, but it wasn’t enough to sustain myself. I wasn’t doing that as a full-time job. And so I started looking for jobs. The closer I got to graduation and after graduation, and I just couldn’t find any entry-level jobs. Which is funny, because I know that this is an experience that is not singular: [finding] any entry level jobs without people asking for experience, which is interesting because it’s an entry-level job, so you would assume that you don’t necessarily need that many years of experience. It’s funny because I was ranting on Facebook about not being able to find a job and my cousin forwarded me a link that she received from her friend who was—I really don’t know what her friend does, but she got the link for, at the time it was the CNL program, the Center for Neighborhood Leadership Program with ANHD [Association for Neighborhood and Housing Development]. And CASA had traditionally done this fellowship in partnership. Basically, the way it worked was that you applied to become a public ally, and part of it was doing a ten-year [sic; ten-month] fellowship, basically. And so out of a thirty-person cohort around there, or maybe a little bit more, maybe I think ten of us or so were part of the organizing cohort of all of that. I applied hesitantly because I was very nervous about it. They called me in for a group interview. I did the group interview. To be frank, I thought I completely—the other two people that did the group interview with were amazing, were super eloquent, and had been doing some community work far longer than I had. I had just like one internship that I did in housing work and so I didn’t think I got it. I went over to my friend’s house and was like, “I don't think I got it [laughs]. But let’s see.” And then I realized that I had a missed call from one of the staff members of CASA at the time and they had called me to ask me to come in for an interview with, at the time, the Director of CASA, Susanna [Blankley]. And so I replied via e-mail and said, “I’m so sorry, I didn't realize,” and we scheduled an interview for the next day. I came actually to here [office of New Settlement Apartments] because this is where our offices were at the time to meet with Susanna. And she told me on the spot that I got the fellowship, and so I started.

That was around late September. I started in October. So my first offices were actually here at 1512 Townsend, but we moved in January I believe over to 35 Marcy Place. I always say this, it was so weird to me—My last semester of my senior year in college, I did a class on organizing, and the class had a volunteer component to it. And the professor invited a bunch of organizers and organizations that she knew that did organizing work to the class, to do presentations on the work that they did. Then us as students would have to choose where we would want to [volunteer], and do interviews with the folks, and decide which [organization] made sense. The person I choose was [from] Goddard Riverside, and Larry Wood, who was–I hope Larry doesn’t mind, if he ever hears this–I think he was the lead organizer at the time. He was the one that did the presentation. And I was like, “I have had housing issues. I want to learn more about housing. [laughs]” So, I did their internship with Goddard. They do housing work; it’s in Harlem and the Upper West Side I believe. So, they work a lot with SROs [Single Room Occupancies]. And yeah, I did that internship and at that time it was 2015. It happened like a year into the Right to Counsel work. Because the Right to Counsel work, I think started–I believe, and I’m if I’m not mistaken–it was in 2014. So, I remember having to help with registration or some other stuff with Larry for an event on Right to Counsel. And I actually at the time was in an e-mail chain with Susanna about this. But I got really sick and couldn’t make it. So, I never met Susanna, but I continued my internship with Larry. When I did the interview with Susanna, I was like “I feel like I know this name.” I went into my college emails and realized that she was the one that was obviously coordinating the Right to Counsel Coalition and part of that event that day. Larry ended up being one of my references. I started in October 2015. I always say that because it was such a weird full circle moment for me [laughs]: from an internship and having to meet Susanna and being hired by her and not making the connection that was like the direction that was going for me.

Zacca Thomaz: That’s cool. What did you study at college?

Perez: Sociology.

Zacca Thomaz: So, tell me about what it was like when you joined CASA with this fellowship. The kind of work that you were doing, the things you were learning.

Perez: Yeah. The fellow has traditionally done a combination of things. Because it’s a fellow and we’re in training, we have to do weekly trainings, all day training. Every Friday I was in downtown Manhattan doing either organizing trainings or just overall service work trainings. And then in CASA, from Monday through Thursday I would be at CASA. I would be organizing the workshop series that we have. We have a once a month, “Know your rights” workshops on different topics where our members can come learn about their rights and there’s also a legal clinic component to it where they can talk to an attorney for free to get free advice about their concerns on housing issues. We start off with the workshops and then as you’re trained and–I think one of the things that I love about CASA is that you’re really trained in our model with time and are able to learn it. In October, I started doing the workshops, but by January I started organizing buildings. So, tenant associations. You don’t do it at the same capacity as full-time organizers because you’re doing another component to that work, you’re doing the workshops. During my ten-month fellowship, I did that. I did the once-a-month workshops where I worked with CASA leaders and members to facilitate the workshops, making sure that we had turnout for the workshops from outreach that we had done from our general membership, and then the tenant association work. I think I probably organized around four buildings or so during that time.

Zacca Thomaz: And for how long were you a fellow?

Perez: I did it for ten months. And because I started late–so the fellowship technically started in September, but I started a month late, I started in October–so I did it through July. And then in August I started as a full time staff.

Zacca Thomaz: And how was that transition? What made you decide to transition into full-time staff?

Perez: Yeah. This was my first professional and also organizing job out of college. I think one of the things that I have always appreciated about CASA, our model, our framework, has been just how much we center our leaders and members as the guides to the work that we do. I studied sociology. I knew that I wanted to work with communities that looked like the one I grew up in, communities that felt familiar to me, just because of my personal experience. Like I mentioned, my parents are undocumented. I had housing issues like the number of experiences that I grew up with. I thought about potentially doing law school. But I wasn’t sure, and I wanted to take a break from–honestly–from schooling. I didn’t realize that organizing was actually a professional thing that you could do, you know? [Laughs] So when I started, I really fell in love with the work and being able to be so member-led. And have that integrity to the community, to work with them. I remember one of my first meetings where–Susanna at the time, I believe was the first one to shadow me at a meeting or that I shadowed at a meeting–she was helping prepare for the next workshop and we were reviewing the agendas for that workshop. Now I know how the work flows, and it was a prep meeting before the workshop with all the facilitators, and she was reviewing piece by piece of the agenda with those facilitators and saying, “What do you think about this? Does it feel like it makes sense to you? Do you want to edit anything? Do you want to take away anything?” And so, we went through the entire agenda and that’s a lengthy process like our meetings are two-hours long. That stuck out to me immediately because I realized how involved our members and leaders were in even the minute details of our work. I didn’t feel like maybe it was something that necessarily happened everywhere, or that it was true to everywhere, right? And just going through college, which was also during the rise of Black Lives Matter and seeing that organizing work, which is amazing. Being able to see the behind-the-scenes work was really interesting to me. I’m not a person that likes to be super visible, I really do enjoy the behind-the-scenes work, and so it felt very comfortable to me in some ways.

I was extremely shy at the time. I didn’t like public speaking. One of our CASA leaders, Randy [Dillard], jokingly said at one of the meetings, “You’re very quiet” at one of my first meetings with all the leaders. I was really just trying to learn and take in how the work was done. That specific meeting with Susanna and like going over the agendas, for me, was like the start of understanding our work and our model and how much community leadership meant to CASA. During the ten-month fellowship, I got to do that. That was my first experience seeing somebody else do it and then I got to do it: meet with members monthly for these agendas. And then when I started organizing, going door to door to buildings, working with people about their conditions, talking to them about what the solutions that they saw for themselves and having them be at the forefront of that. When we were doing press, they were the ones speaking to press, they were the ones narrating their lives and what was happening in the organizing work that they were doing. And that felt exactly like what I wanted to do. That felt like the community work that I wanted to do. I decided to forgo law school. And I was like, “Yes! Now I don’t have to do schooling for longer because I can actually do this” [laughs]. And this actually feels so much more connected to the community, in a way that, I think community lawyering is great, [but] I don’t know if I would’ve had the same experience: doing lawyering versus organizing, actually organizing work.

Zacca Thomaz: Your work as an organizer was mostly going to the buildings and talking to the tenants about the problems they were facing?

Perez: Yeah, so I became full-time staff in 2016, August 2016. I was like any other building organizer, any other tenant organizer. All of my work specifically was around going to buildings and organizing tenant associations. We were informed and had to understand the campaign work—which again I think is one of the great things about CASA: you’re not in a silo doing your own work but understand and have to bring members into the larger work that we do, so that they understand the larger systematic issues, right? When we talk to a tenant about their issues with mice or their issues with leaks, it feels very direct and immediate and urgent for them–and it is–but then being able to pull back the curtain a little bit and have them see that it isn’t just them, right? I think one of the things around organizing that is so powerful is that it takes the shame away from people that they feel about the oppression that they’re facing. It allows them to see and feel connected to other people. And so being able to go door to door and listen to people about what they were specifically experiencing and feeling that urgency that they had and then bringing them all together to a meeting. One of my favorite things about tenant association meetings is the first initial meeting in the building—what we call “Know your rights meeting”—it’s a part where we talk about the repairs and the conditions in the building. And we say, “Alright, now that we have explained your rights and you know who we are, we’re going to open it up to you, and you’re going to tell us what is going on.” So, people will raise their hands or just speak out loud and say, “I’m having a leak in my building,” and ten other people say, “Yes, I do, I also have that.” Or “I have issues with mice,” and fifteen other people [will say the same] depending on the size of the meeting. But you get my point, right? People then realize that it isn’t them. The landlord isn’t just targeting you but that, really, this experience is across the board, and that they don’t have to feel ashamed about the conditions that they have to live with. It isn’t their fault. There’s no way. A lot of times tenants say, “I try to do the best that I can” or “I do the repairs on my own,” out of that shame of seeing the conditions that they live with. But having that space really breaks that. From then on—again our model and taking leadership from tenants—sometimes people don’t want to [organize], and that’s okay too. People aren’t always ready to organize. But if they are, then we go on to working with them for as long as they want to on how to address those issues.

Zacca Thomaz: You’re telling me a very vivid memory of these meetings and how they would go and what people would say and the dynamics. From this time that you worked as an organizer, was there a particular day, or an anecdote, a story that was really memorable to you, that was really important?

Perez: It’s interesting because the two first buildings that I ever organized—I actually spoke to one of the tenants from one of those buildings yesterday [laughs]. She came to our general membership meeting, and she happened to just come to the community center for New Settlement and realized that CASA was there and came up and was like, “Hi, how are you? It’s been so long!” We were talking about the conditions of her building, which actually happens to be one of the worst buildings that I had ever seen. She talked about the issues still happening. I will say that building had a lot of conditions. The tenant leaders were great, but there was a lot of turnover in that building, so it was really hard to organize long-term. I am always extremely proud of the tenant leadership team for those two buildings. They’re buildings right next to each other and owned by the same landlord. I remember towards the end of the organizing work they did file an HP Case, a Housing Part action, against their landlord. They sued the landlord for repairs. Then towards the end, while we were still trying to figure out how to engage more people or see if there’s any potential for organizing, we did a press walkthrough, where you invite press and they do interviews one-on-one with tenants and then they go up into the building, into the apartments, to look at conditions and then to interview tenants in their apartments as well.

I remember feeling very nervous about it, because it was towards the end of the organizing work, really. It was only the tenant leaders involved at that point, which was probably like five to eight families out of a hundred units across the two buildings. I was super hesitant about it because I was just nervous that we weren’t going to get press, and it was going to be even more demoralizing for them. And again, I think talking to coworkers, other organizers, and my supervisors, I think one thing that always stands out to me [is that] it wasn’t my choice to make, whether that was going to be demoralizing or whether that was an action that they wanted to do or not. I had to step away from my feelings about being hesitant and just really go with what they wanted to do, which was to do the press walkthrough. And we did it. And we actually had Univision and Telemundo, which are big networks for Spanish-speaking folks. I remember one of the tenant leaders was the dad, the daughter, and the grandsons, and they were really active tenant leaders. I remember the dad being super excited that Telemundo and Univision were there, because they watched them all the time. They see the reporters, and to be able to actually meet a reporter was super big for them. Horrible circumstances, but it was really exciting for them. And then I think Bronx 12 came, if I remember correctly.

That day seeing them excited about actually having press, seeing other tenants in the building come out and realize that press was there and kind of being like, “Yeah! This is also an issue. And this is also an issue.” And then seeing how much the leaders have grown. So, at some point, because it was two buildings, we had to split up. I went with one group, and then another tenant leader went to the other side with the other building, and we just took over and did the work that tends to happen for organizers to do. So, despite my being really nervous about it and hesitant, being able to see their leadership, their commitment to each other—because there had been a decision that the leaders made, and following through [with it], and then seeing the excitement of—Maybe we didn’t win everything. Maybe we didn’t get everybody down that we wanted to. But we pushed through, and we were able to actually make it successful. Then being able to print out the articles and send them the videos through text of the actual reporting was very—I always think about that because it was also one of my first press conferences. So that’s always a memory.

Another building that I organized was a 167-unit building. It’s a really big building, no gas. By the time that I started organizing, they had no gas for five months already. I think that building, just in terms of, again, the tenant leaders, [it] was exciting. I started organizing that building I think in October. By November, they had already begun the process to file an HP case, to sue the landlord for repairs. The tenant leaders were like, “We want to do everything at the same time,” which is a lot for an organizer, right? You want to do a press conference. You want to do rent reductions. You want to do Housing Part Action. So, cases in housing court. It was a lot, but the tenant leaders really pulled through. And they specifically wanted to do a press conference in November, because of the holidays coming up, because of Thanksgiving. We pulled it together I think in two weeks, the press conference–two to three weeks, if I’m not mistaken. I think we had forty people come out from that building to the press conference. I remember meeting with the facilitators and going over the agenda and thinking back to that original meeting about the workshop with Susanna. Going through every single piece of the agenda, talking to people about what they wanted to change and being like, “Does this feel like your voice? Are there things that you want to edit?” And people being like, “That’s not how I speak.” “I can’t say that word.” Or “I don’t want to say it in that way.” And being able to bring it back, make edits. And people feeling nervous but also very excited to be talking to press, and saying it in their own words, which always makes it more powerful. Also, I think one or two days before the press conference, we had a flyer- poster-making party in the lobby of the building. I brought all the materials, I brought poster boards, markers, everything for people to make. And then one of our leaders actually made turkeys [laughs]. And she was so excited about the damn turkeys [laughs]! Because they wanted to make the connection to Thanksgiving and not having gas and not being able to cook meals for their families. Again, it’s a not so great circumstances, and still being able to see people bring light-heartedness to the space, and her posting turkeys on everybody’s poster boards. And people were laughing and enjoying the moment. So those [memories] always stick out to me. And I would say [that] the attorneys in that building were amazing. One of the things I have always appreciated is attorneys that are able to take the lead from community, build relationships in a genuine way, and really do the advocacy work in a way that feels meaningful to the leaders and the tenants across the board.

Zacca Thomaz: Amazing. And you’re saying these three experiences were when you had just started as a fellow?

Perez: No, the Sheridan buildings I was still a fellow. The Grand Concourse building was–which is the bigger building–I think, I was about two years into organizing. Yeah. I think it was probably 2017, 2018, if I’m not mistaken. I’m not great with years. Yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: That’s all good. So, in addition to the tenant organizing and the individual buildings, were you also participating in the bigger campaigns that CASA was leading?

Perez: Yeah. When I started, like I said, I did the ten-month fellowship, and then by my first year, I was more involved in the Rezoning [of Jerome Avenue] campaign. I wasn’t as involved in the “Housing Courts Must Change” campaign or the Right to Counsel work. But I was involved in the RGB [Rent Guidelines Board] campaign and also the Rezoning campaign. The RGB campaign is one of the most relatable campaigns, most widespread impact. All of the organizers are really familiar with it. We were having monthly rezoning campaign meetings. At some point we had either all staff or rotating staff go to the meetings, and then I think over time, depending on capacity, the leadership at that time decided to keep certain folks on. I stayed on supporting the monthly [rezoning] campaign meetings, which meant making sure the coordination, the logistics of the campaign ran smoothly. Of course, again, at our weekly staff meetings and overall work, we make sure that our staff are familiar with the campaign work because, although they don’t hold the campaign work, they are bringing their base from buildings into the campaign work.

I started learning more deeply about what rezoning was, what were the demands. The rezoning campaign was a really technical campaign because it’s about land use. I give so much props to the folks in leadership at the time, because they really were able to bring folks in. They themselves were able to break it down in a way that members were able to understand and engage the city. Because I think–to your like earlier question around development in the Bronx–development always feels really abstract, other than like building buildings, you know? So, bringing that abstract conversation and details, and making it so that our members became experts in it. Our members know that development wasn’t going to be good for them. That it meant gentrification. That it meant displacement. But not everybody might have had that language. And so being able to make it accessible across our membership, across our leaders, and making sure that our members were experts to a point that they could go to hearings and say, “You should build deeper affordability, and this is what it looks like.” And talking about AMI [Area Median Income]. Talking about how specifically the process of rezoning an area in New York City, that process in itself is complicated. Being able to keep our members abreast around what was happening under them, understanding the process. Them going into spaces, understanding what was happening, who was in that space, who they were targeting—It was really powerful to see.

I definitely got more involved in the rezoning campaign and then I think by the time that we were two to three years into the campaign, I became lead organizer. I think that was probably 2018, or late 2017, if I’m not mistaken. And then the rezoning happened soon after; it was actually passed soon after that, in March of 2018. But I will say, the rezoning campaign was such a powerful thing to witness. The framework that we use is like campaigns look similar, whether it’s more local tenant association work to the grander–both across the Bronx and also citywide, statewide work. And so being able to build our members from the ground TA [tenant association] work up. It was really powerful. The rezoning campaign was really emotional because some of our members and even leaders can talk about rezonings that happened in Harlem, them having to move into the Bronx, them seeing gentrification happen across other boroughs and other neighborhoods and understanding what was going to happen if it passed, if there was no community involvement in it. I think they had a really big feeling around responsibility and urgency in that. It was some of the most powerful actions I think that we did. And because we weren’t just tenant—it wasn’t just CASA, it was our allies like Northwest Bronx [Community and Clergy Coalition], unions were involved. We did really amazing work to build solidarity. And again, making sure that the language was accessible and that our members knew exactly what they were doing. We were going to hearings where city officials were there and it’s a very different dynamic. There’s power dynamics involved there, right? And having our members go and testify and be super direct and knowledgeable. It was great. The thing that I love the most about it was even if they didn’t have the language for it, they knew what it meant. They knew exactly what that experience was going to be like and could speak to it.

Zacca Thomaz: The coalition that was formed at the time, was it the [Bronx] Coalition for a Community Vision we’re talking about?

Zacca Thomaz: And how do you assess that? I mean the campaign, while it was going on, the process of holding all these meetings and bringing all these different groups together, speaking back to the city planners, the people in power, to the results that you got. What was that like?

Perez: Yeah. We definitely had monthly meetings, campaign meetings, for the rezoning campaign. They were held up at the New Settlement Community Center. All of our allies actually came down to that space and we discussed literally month to month what was happening, what had happened the month before, what was coming forward. I think that was a helpful space to reflect towards the end, I will say, because the process accelerates past a certain point. It was a lot of urgency and even for their final vote. The final vote was supposed to happen in February. There was a snowstorm, it got canceled, and then in early–I think it was supposed to happen either in February or early March–and then had to be rescheduled, and it got rescheduled within the week. It was on a Monday [laughs]. It was really chaotic for us to turn out our members to it. Again, but because our members understood the urgency and importance, we were calling folks on a Sunday and folks were so down to go.

We didn’t win everything that we wanted, but we certainly won things around safety for union workers, we warrant deeper affordability for the way that HPD [New York City Housing Preservation and Development] builds or allows for developers to build. And overall, I think the most impactful—I think things would’ve definitely been a lot worse in terms of what the actual rezoning would’ve looked like, or the results would’ve looked like, if there wasn’t such a strong fight, such a broad-based fight across neighborhoods. Because northeast Bronx is north of us, and it was a huge rezoning. I think it was the biggest one that de Blasio wanted to implement.

So definitely not a complete win. There were wins. I think we don’t know exactly fully what that will look like. We’re starting to see some of the development happen now and I think our members will then, in the next couple of years, respond to that and develop potentially a campaign around it. I think right now because of the pandemic, honestly, there’s been such a halt around that work because there’s such an eviction crisis that our members feel the urgency to respond to that. So, I’ll say there’s development happening certainly, and our members see it and definitely want to dig into that again. I just think that until some of the eviction work feels less urgent, folks might hold off on it for a bit.

Zacca Thomaz: Makes sense. You know, some people attribute things such as, two big things: the Certificate of No Harassment…

Perez: Oh, yes. I forgot about that. Yes.

Zacca Thomaz: And Right to Counsel too.

Perez: And Right to Counsel. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Zacca Thomaz: How do you see that [laughs]?

Perez: [Laughs] So part of the Certificate of No Harassment was because, that program specifically, [was] to make sure that buildings that are already existing and tenants in those buildings—specifically because we’ve seen it happen in other neighborhoods, that we see how landlords behave in a way that is harassing tenants in order to displace them and make space for new people to come in at higher rents. So, the Certificate of No Harassment was one of those solutions. Because there’s going to be new development, we’re going to see existing buildings and existing landlords in those buildings behave in a way that is going to be predatory and harassing. So we want to make sure that there’s protections for tenants in those buildings to actually say like, “Okay, if you’re going to do anything, we need protections for ourselves. We need to keep affordability. We need to make sure that you’re not harassing us to make sure that you are displacing us.”

Because we haven’t been as involved in that work [as] we were involved in the first year, it isn’t—I don't know if this is true as of right now—but it isn’t as broad-based as we would have wanted it to be. It doesn’t target all of the buildings in the neighborhood, it just targets a few. And that was a narrative that the city uses, right? That the impact of the rezoning wasn’t going to be felt across the neighborhood as a whole. When it’s such a huge rezoning, they were saying like “a block radius” or whatever, an amount of block radius, which we know is not true. We know, and we’ve seen the effects. And even if you’re ten blocks away from where the rezoning is happening, you’re going to feel the effects of that rezoning. It just makes sense, right? I think that it definitely could’ve been more broad-based and encompassing. But like I said, we haven’t been involved in that work in a while.

Then Right to Counsel was, I would say, our biggest win out of the campaign certainly. And again, because we understood the potential harms of the rezoning for tenants that currently live in the neighborhood: facing harassment, facing consistent repairs not being made, consistent lack of services and consistent eviction filings as a form of harassment. Because they there’s only so much that somebody can take. People often self-evict. And often people go to court and don’t feel empowered enough to advocate for themselves, so [they] don’t have somebody to support them in that process. When the housing court campaign was active, and the Right to Counsel work was part of that, our members did those surveys and really saw how much of an imbalance of power there is in housing courts. And truly, if you go to housing court, you go in and you come out feeling super angry and frustrated at that entire system.

And so our members felt really strongly that that [right to counsel] would be needed in order to be a protection for tenants that would be widespread and that would make sure that folks facing court at any point would be able to have some support. And originally it was a five-year phase-in, but because of the pandemic, the five-year rollout was decreased, so we got it earlier than we were expecting. And I think it’s proven how successful it is. The city puts out yearly reports about right to counsel, and we have seen that when tenants have an attorney, eighty-four percent of tenants are able to stay in their homes. That’s a huge difference. And I think that’s specifically important for the Bronx, because it traditionally has had the highest number of eviction filings, of evictions. And it really is the last kind of frontier in New York City in terms of gentrification. I think it has been very meaningful for our members to have that as a win and to continue to make sure that it’s implemented in a way that is actually useful for the people that need it the most.

Zacca Thomaz: Do you remember the day when it passed?

Perez: I don’t. I do remember when the mayor came down, I think it was August, when the mayor came down to sign it here in New Settlement. It had to be in spring because I remember the picture of folks knowing and finding out and celebrating, and everybody had hoodies on. I think it’s certainly spring. And then the mayor came down, I think, in the summer to New Settlement to sign off on the bill. Randy [Dillard] actually and some of our other leaders like Mildred [James], I think Carmen [Vega Rivera], Lourdes [de la Cruz]—I can’t remember everybody off the top of my head—but they were on the stage. Randy got to actually hold the pen or part of the signing. And we have a picture of him with his grandson Chris, which was really, you know—He had been one of the leading voices specifically because of his experience with housing court and his landlord in that campaign. I think that was a full-circle moment for him and a really proud one. I definitely remember that moment and seeing so much of the excitement in the room and folks feeling really empowered and just happy that we got such a huge win.

Zacca Thomaz: Uh-hum, that’s amazing. Since Right to Counsel passed, how do you see the way it’s been implemented? What has CASA been doing about it?

Perez: Yeah. As I mentioned, we have really seen the results and how successful and needed it’s been. I think the pandemic has become an obstacle for so much of our work. As of right now, I definitely think that there’s hiccups with the way that–not with the actual legislation–but the way that the city is not upholding truly the legislation. They’re not adjourning cases. They’re moving cases forward without people having the right to an attorney. Part of it is just the volume of cases that have risen up because of the pandemic and also the shortage in attorneys. There’s a shortage of labor across many industries that includes attorneys, so those are two things that together really have impacted the eviction crisis, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not solvable. The city just has had a lack of willpower to do anything about it. Because the courts are state, it’s also the states, right?

The narrative that we hear is that “things had to move along,” that “landlords have a right to due process.” But I think that it is a lack of political will. We saw that the sky didn’t fall during the pandemic when landlords weren’t able to evict people. This is just landlords crying about not being able to evict people. And evictions are about power. Evictions are racialized in this country. We see the folks that are most impacted are working-class Black and Brown people that are the most evicted across the city. And the city’s unwillingness to do anything about it, especially after such a public health crisis, really shows how little they care about the New Yorkers that help run the city every single day, and how little they care about the homelessness crisis that increases every single year. Because it’s profitable. It’s profitable for people to be evicted. It’s profitable for folks to be in shelters. I think that we see all those connections and the city will claim that it’s doing the best that it can. But the reality is that if there’s enough willpower to do so, they would have done something a long time ago. And it’s not like we don’t have solutions. The Right to Counsel [New York City] Coalition has been working on solutions that are doable, that are legal. There’s whole legal memos that we have had the help of our legal allies give support to. So, it really is just a lack of care and will to do something about it.

Zacca Thomaz: You mentioned that in addition to the rezoning campaign, the RGB [Rent Guidelines Board] campaigns were also important to you?

Perez: Yeah. When I became lead [organizer], I actually took over the RGB campaign. That was the first campaign I coordinated, or was point on, and that campaign really is about the rent adjustments that rent-stabilized tenants get every year. So, when a tenant goes to sign their lease, there’s usually a percentage for one-year and two-year leases. Those percentages are determined by this board. Because the majority of our membership is rent-stabilized, it’s the [campaign that] has the most widespread impact across our membership. It’s a yearly and seasonal campaign. I think that’s also one of the historic campaigns that we have done, because in 2016 [sic, 2015] us, along with other allies across the city, were able to win the first rent freeze ever in the history of the RGB. And I will have to say and brag that a lot of it had to do with CASA and our ability to turn out folks and organize.

This was also around the time that de Blasio was first becoming mayor and so our folks saw a window of opportunity and seized it. I think that just shows their tactful and strategic organizing to see that window of opportunity, a new mayor, and say, “This is our opportunity to organize and mobilize and put pressure about why we need no rent increases.” For me, it’s a campaign that has the most impact, probably the least technical, so folks are get on board really quickly. People are like, “You want rent increases?” And people are like, “No!” [laughs] and understand why. I think the last piece that has always been the most impactful is our Bronx hearing. The city didn’t always hold hearings in all the boroughs, before we organized them to do so. They only had, I think one or two in Manhattan during the day. So, it was really hard for folks outside of the boroughs and a lot of the rent-stabilized housing stock is also outside of Manhattan. And so we were able to organize them to hold a hearing for each borough, except for Staten Island. The Bronx one, all of our allies turn out to it as well. CASA turns out majorly. We’ve turned out up to, I think, five hundred people for that hearing. It’s a massive mobilizing effort.

So we are doing outreach for a month to a month and a half beforehand to all of our tenant associations, street outreach. Our members are coming into the office to take flyers to go to the churches or senior centers, their local laundromat, all of the places that they visit. Then the day of is a full-on RGB day. There’s a press conference before and a rally that we usually do. I think the most fun part for me has always been that we never go in on time. We always rally and march into the action and disrupt the entire hearing. It’s always really fun for me personally [laughs] to watch the faces of the people on the board and be super annoyed and also in shock about what’s happening. Because people in power always have a sense of superiority or like, “How dare you?” And so being able to see our members go into that space and not care one bit and actually make sure that the board knows that they’re in that space. That has always been super impactful. And then hearing our members testifying. We don’t leave until the last person testifies. None of us leave until the last person testified. So we sit there. We usually get there around six p.m., and sometimes we have been there until like ten at night, until the last person testifies. And they have tried to cut off people, and our members fight back and shout and say, “No, you have to listen to them.” It’s been a space where people have direct access. I think similar to the TA [tenant association] work, where they sometimes get access to the landlord, they get direct access to people making decisions about things that will affect their lives on a daily basis. Rent increases means for some people that they make decisions about whether they’re going to buy some medication, whether they’re going to buy some new clothes for their kids, whether they’re going to buy some groceries. These are things that are super important and impact people’s daily lives. And the board looks at it like just a percentage, just a number on a lease. And it is not. It’s not that. It’s profits for landlords, and it means cuts for tenants on their daily lives and their choices that they make.

So being able to see them have direct access to the people that make those decisions and be just unashamed about it. The board [members] sometimes would be making faces because we’re there for so long. Sometimes the people on the board get on their phones or are just completely gone. Not there, not listening. And our members will call it out and say, “I’ll wait for you to get off your phone.”’ Or “We see you on your phones,” or “We see you falling asleep.” That’s always been powerful for me because I think it’s also one of the best and easiest ways for us to recruit new members. So, we have a rally, but, before the rally, we’re doing outreach for a couple hours before the hearing, outside of where it’s taking place or nearby, to let people know what’s happening and recruit those folks. We’ve had people find out the day of,  go in,  testify, and then come out a member. I think it’s a really powerful moment for them to witness.

So yeah, that campaign is always fun for me. Our members get super excited. At our general membership meeting yesterday, we were, you know—the board passed pretty high increases. The highest prior to the last decade, last year. So, our members are pissed about it. [Mayor Eric] Adams is refusing to acknowledge tenants at all, and so our members are strategizing already about what they’re going to do and what they want to see happen.

Zacca Thomaz: Yeah, I remember last year the argument that they used was that landlords were really impacted by the pandemic. All this the image of the mom-and-pop landlords.

**[**01:22:49]

Perez: Yeah, which is not true. Most landlords in New York City are corporate landlords. I know that the report that came out this year, in the last two weeks, said that their margins for profit decreased slightly. They’re still making profits, it just decreased slightly. They’re still making profits! [Laughs] You know? I think to compare the profit (that you might have slightly seen a decrease in) to what tenants are going through, especially after the pandemic—People hurt, like thousands of dollars in debt, because they lost their jobs, their family members passed away during the pandemic. And just the urgency that they feel to stay in their homes and fight for it because they know how expensive it is to move at this point, how expensive apartments are, and you’re complaining about a slight decrease in your profit? I think it just shows the issues. And the root issue around capitalism and how people are treated and dehumanized and in the name of money and greed and being able to hold power. And so before the pandemic, landlords had seen increases for, I think at least for fourteen, fifteen years, if I’m not mistaken. Every year their profits increase. So, the fact that they’re using the pandemic and a slight decrease in profits as a reason for them to get rent increases, it’s just ludicrous to me. But it’s not surprising.

Zacca Thomaz: Tell me about the pandemic itself. What was it like? Were you already a director then?

Perez: I was deputy. I was lead [organizer] and shortly after became deputy, I believe. The pandemic was hard [laughs], I think, for all of us. Our members are just always resilient, which I think is hard for me to say it sometimes, because it just means like the impact of oppression that they face on a daily basis. But they are resilient, and they are powerful, and they continue to fight. It was definitely long hours and a lot of urgency during the pandemic. But I think one of the things that I appreciate the most—because everybody was home and going through this kind of in their own isolated moments—I’m the proudest of the fact that we were able to sustain our work in a way that people felt like they weren’t alone. We continued to hold general membership meetings. We continued to hold campaign meetings. We continued to hold workshops. All virtual. We were all learning how to use Zoom and figuring that out on our own and our members’ ability and willingness to be flexible when tech wasn’t working and there was glitches here and there. But I think they knew that if we got it to work and, once it did, they knew what it meant to finally be able to speak to people. A lot of our members are seniors and live on their own, and that’s very isolating. That was especially isolating during the pandemic. So, after our meetings, we always created space for at least fifteen, twenty, sometimes thirty minutes for our members to just sit and chat outside of anything that had to do with CASA work.

And I remember some of the first few meetings, people are like “I’m so happy to see you!” and “Look who’s here and look who’s here!” and ‘Wow, I hope everything is okay.” You know, there was also hard moments. Folks had people pass away and things going on. Being able to hold community, in such a hard moment, I think was outside of the work–there’s always work to do– but really, having community in a way that felt connecting, was, I think, for me the proudest thing. People knew that they weren’t alone. They knew that there were people that were looking out for them. We were doing weekly check-in calls and—because we started to have regular meetings on a monthly basis—so once a week we had one meeting. People were connected to us. We were checking in on people every week, not just about the meeting, but just to see how they were doing. We created this whole resource guide for people to learn about pantries that were open and how they could get access to other resources, masks, Covid tests, et cetera. For me the work is work and is there and it was powerful.

I think it was one of the most politicizing moments of the years I’ve been at CASA, because we were literally talking about “cancel rent,” which was a huge push from no more rent [increases] or make rents affordable. We were saying, “Cancel Rent,” like “We’re not paying.” We had buildings on rent strikes. I think one or two before the pandemic, and during the pandemic I think we had between five and six buildings go on rent strike, which was very powerful. We continued to do the tenant organizing work. We went to actions. We had actions at housing court. We were doing actions to target elected officials. I think it was definitely a politicizing moment for our membership. But I’ll say that I’m always the most proud of making sure that our members felt connected during such a hard time.

Zacca Thomaz: Tell me a bit more about that campaign at the time, the whole thing that was emerging during the pandemic of Cancel Rent, end evictions, how you were mobilizing around that.

Perez: Yeah. From March, I would say, up until May, we were all virtual. We were doing actions on Zoom, holding press conferences on Zoom, inviting the elected officials on Zoom about Cancel Rent. We’re part of the Housing Justice for All coalition, and they partner up with the Right to Counsel [New York City] coalition, which we’re already part of. We were already part of the Housing Justice coalition through our No More MCIs campaign. So, our members were involved in those campaign meetings and developing what it meant for the demand to be Cancel Rent and for the eviction moratorium. I remember at the beginning it was a partial eviction moratorium and then at some point it just became across, which is huge, right? Like there was literally no evictions for almost two years.

And the Cancel Rent was like, how do we expect people if they’re not working to pay any rent? It doesn’t make sense. It seemed very obvious. Obviously, we knew what we were confronting because we knew landlords were not going to take it lying down, and that we were definitely having a hard time with them. So, we started mobilizing hard in–probably actually earlier than that, I would say, because the legislative session runs from January through June—but we continued on. Because we saw how the pandemic was progressing and knew it wasn’t going to be a one-year or a few-months campaign. We mobilized heavily in the summer of 2020 into the fall, and then we closed down again because of the surges. And we reopened–well, I’m trying to think if I’m mistaken. We might have been for the most part remote in 2020 with a few actions here and there. And then we went remote during the surges in the winter and then in spring through the fall there were a lot of actions in 2021.

We were constantly at [Governor Andrew] Cuomo’s office or housing court or the Speaker of the Assembly’s office. The action that I remember the most was an action at the office of the Speaker of the [New York State] Assembly, Carl Heastie, and we went to their office. We rallied. We marched from a few blocks away to his office, shut down the entire area. Because it was not just CASA, the entire coalition turned out. And then CASA specifically and other members–I think Northwest Bronx [Community and Clergy Coalition] members stayed too—we held a rally until midnight. We completely made sure that they were hearing us. We had press, and part of that action was watching a documentary about other people organizing around evictions. Actually, I think it was evictions in Spain, La PAH [Plataforma de Afectados por la Hipoteca]. We watched a documentary on La PAH. And our members love to dance [laughs]. So we did dancing to keep [warm]—It was cold! That action was in March, so it was very cold, I remember. One of our allies brought hot chocolate for us. We have snacks and water, and we took breaks dancing. And then sometimes we took breaks just having conversations about what was going on. The idea was really to make sure that the Speaker knew we were there for that long and right outside his office and understand visibly what it meant for people to be evicted and the potential of not passing Cancel Rent or winning anything for your tenants. That means homelessness and folks being outside. I think it was a hard action definitely, logistically, and just to be there because it was so cold. But I think our member, again, [their] resiliency and just willingness to take action because they understood the consequences if they didn’t. It was really powerful to see.

So yeah, so we held a lot of actions. We didn’t win Cancel Rent. This ERAP [New York State Emergency Rental Assistance Program] money came about, and I think our members didn’t see that necessarily as a win because they knew that it was going to be a headache. And it was for people to apply to this program. Because usually when these programs are created, the people that need the access the most are the ones that get it the least and are the ones that receive least help. But then we mobilized around that, and we did a ton of clinics and workshops and supporting. Sometimes we even support the people one-on-one, which we don’t tend to do any casework, just because we understood the urgency. I think by between September and November, we were already having conversations about what our work looked like post the urgency of the deepness of the pandemic. Obviously, we understand the pandemic is ongoing, but now that the restrictions had lifted, what did our work look like? And that’s when we started envisioning the Eviction-Free Bronx campaign and what anti-eviction work and eviction defense would look like. We did a ton of political education with our members around evictions, about them being morally wrong, about them being about power, race, class, and what it meant to actively put your body on the line to do eviction defense. We definitely have had interests over time. I don’t know that our members are ready to do that eviction defense directly. But certainly the court watch that we’re doing, the supporting members at their individual court cases–all of that work is kind of in response to figuring out and envisioning what anti-eviction work looks like.

Zacca Thomaz: When you say eviction defense, what is that exactly?

Perez: We started talking about creating an eviction defense network. [The] Right the Counsel [New York City Coalition] had already been working on that before the pandemic. They stopped because of the pandemic. Then our members and our staff started to have conversations about if one of our members did receive an eviction notice that March, a notice saying you’re going to be evicted, what would that mean for us? What would the response be? We started to talk about what an eviction defense network would look like, discussing what the criteria would be in terms of who we supported, just because of capacity. And our members were part of all of that: deciding who we could support; how it would work; who we would want to invite to become part of the network; who would be willing to participate in actively stopping the eviction. And we did get folks that were really excited to learn more. But just because we know the police state that we live in and how harmful and dangerous it could be, I think some members have been hesitant. So, we never really launched it, but we created a framework for it and are in conversations about it. For now, as a substitute to that in some degree, we have just done the court watch: individual support for our members that have court cases, and either have or don’t have representation. Sometimes they want members to show up with them so that the judge can see solidarity, that the landlord could see solidarity, that they’re not alone, and they can’t bully them into signing a stipulation, et cetera. We have supported some of our members in going to those court dates with them. Then obviously, we’re still working on the statewide work around Right to Counsel to pass it on a statewide level. And also just solutions around making sure that the city legislation is implemented in the way that we wanted it, and the cases that are not moving forward where a tenant would be eligible for an attorney.

Zacca Thomaz: And can you imagine what it would look like to have an eviction-free Bronx?

Perez: I don’t think it’s for me to imagine. You know, I think we facilitate the conversations about what no evictions have looked like in the past, about what rent strikes have looked like in the past, what tenant organizing has looked like. The Right to Counsel [New York City Coalition] created a really amazing tenant movement timeline. We use that a ton for our political education with our members. I would say that it’s not for me to imagine. I would want to create space for our members to make a decision about what that would look like, but I think it would be beautiful. It would be a Bronx where people have the resources that they need, where they feel safe, where they feel–I’m trying to think of the word that I’m trying to express–stable. I think a lot of the thing around evictions is that there is so much instability when an eviction happens. And even if an eviction doesn’t happen, but you’re dragged through the process of a court case, it’s so destabilizing for people. Especially if somebody doesn’t have an attorney. People have to miss work consistently. You don’t always know when you’re going to be called, so if your kid is getting out of school at three and you haven’t been called, what does that mean for you? The stress that it brings on people. We’ve had people come in and say that they have a court case and we’re like, “It’s okay. It’s your first one. You can ask for an adjournment.” They just break down to tears because of the stress that they feel. A lot of the population in the Bronx, their primary language is not English or are non-English speakers. What does it mean to go through that process when you don’t understand any of the language that is being spoken to you? When you don’t see any other language that you need on paper? And that’s if you can read and write.

I think that a Bronx without evictions would mean stability on multiple levels. It would mean actual physical stability, emotional, mental, stability on so many fronts. And one of the things that we have really expressed and try to put—not as a narrative, because it’s the truth–is that housing is a public health issue. We’ve seen it first-hand with the pandemic. When people lose their homes and people are on the streets and there’s a pandemic, it means that there’s a public health crisis. It exacerbates that. It’s a public health issue and it’s not just about that singular person being evicted. It has ripples throughout the community. Because that person might be single, but that person might not be single. That person might have kids that then have to move to the schools where the—If they go through the shelter system, they might have to go to the school nearby that shelter. If they’re moved, they have to change schools or they have to commute for hours. Evictions are super destabilizing and immoral and violent, and I think that a Bronx without evictions would be the entire opposite of that: where people would feel safe and stable and maybe have even more resources and time to think about and envision what more they would want to see from their community.

Zacca Thomaz: And just for the sake of the timeline, when did you become director of CASA?

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Perez: I got pregnant in 2021 and gave birth in the end of the year, in December. So, I took maternity leave from December to the end of May and when I got back in June, I became co-director with Jordan [Cooper], who’s my other fellow co-director, so June of 2022.

Zacca Thomaz: During this period, what was it like for you to become director after being involved with CASA for so many years?

Perez: I’m always excited to see the work that we’re doing. It has certainly been hard, just as a new mom [laughs]. I think that’s a whole dynamic that I’ve tried to figure out and balance. But I think I’m just grateful to have been part of it for so long and be able to get to this place where I can look back and see how much we have gotten, how much we haven’t, what our members want to envision and continue to fight for. And like I said, this year I have felt the most grateful for just people being here. After such a hard few years with the pandemic—you know, we lost some of our members during the pandemic. So being able to see our members finally see each other in person. Because we started to have in-person meetings again, and hug each other, and be awkward because they’re like, “I don’t know if it’s okay to hug you or not,” or be excited to be just in the space, and about the work and willing to fight. It has been inspiring as it has always been. But especially now, after such a few hard years. Yesterday, we had our general membership meeting, and I was having a conversation with our lead organizer. He was like “Oh, it’s looking like it might be a low turnout today,” because the room wasn’t fully packed. And then I was so surprised, as I was doing something on the computer showing pictures about what the agenda was about, and then I looked up and the space was completely filled. This March was the first time that we did our leadership development institute for the first time since 2020. And then the one in 2020 got cut off short because of the pandemic. We celebrated all the graduates. And they were so happy. They were so happy. One of them didn’t make it to the actual ceremony that we did for them, but was so happy to just have made it and got her certificate and brought friends and was taking pictures. And for me, I think the organizing work fundamentally is about building those relationships and those connections, and people feeling empowered, connected, and seeing themselves in the light that they might have never thought that they could see themselves in.

Zacca Thomaz: Here at CASA, you have this expression “CASA Power.” What do you think is behind that?

Perez: [Laughs] Right. I laugh because they say it so much, sometimes even when we’re not just CASA, we’re with other allies. And I’m like “Guys, we’re not just CASA” [laughs]. I really think that it comes from our model. Because people feel ownership about the work, they feel like it is their work on the line. Whether it’s for the good or bad, which I think is almost always good, that it’s really theirs. The victories are their victories. The wins are their wins. When they see members in coalition spaces and somebody gets to go up and speak, or speak at a press conference, they see themselves in that. They see also their work reflected. For some of our leaders, it’s them training others. So, even though we help facilitate the workshops, our leaders are part of the training process for new leaders and new members, and so they see their own efforts flowering or blooming. I really think that it’s because our model is so centered around the leadership of the community and our members that they understand that CASA is only CASA because of them. And because of that ownership, I think there’s a very zealous pride about it. I think it’s that. I think that people feel ownership and feel super proud of the fact that they’re able to do this work and see themselves in it, as fully part of it, not just bodies that are representing another person’s vision.

Zacca Thomaz: And now that you’re wrapping up your work with CASA and having lived in the Bronx for your whole life, pretty much, being so immersed in this community, having had all these experiences working with CASA throughout the years: When you think about the future of the Bronx specifically, what are your hopes and concerns?

Perez: I think my biggest concern is around displacement and gentrification getting here. We do see the development happening and I think the pandemic has both accelerated and stalled in some ways, the work, in different ways. As I was mentioning, the rezoning work, we haven’t really touched as much. We have it in our minds. We see it happening, but we haven’t been as involved around what the city promised, to actually making sure that those promises are kept. My concern is just around bigger gentrification and displacement more rapidly happening. But I don’t underestimate our folks here because they’ve put up a hell of a fight and are so powerful that I’m looking forward to seeing what that work looks like in the next few years and seeing what their vision of an eviction-free Bronx looks like, and what other kind of work they want to do. I don’t know that I have a vision for it yet. I think I’m just excited to see what they envision for themselves and seeing the future and doing the future.

Zacca Thomaz: Was there anything that we didn’t touch on that you think is important to your story with CASA?

Perez: I don’t think so. Yeah. Yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Yeraldi, for your time. It was a real pleasure to hear your story. I appreciate it.

Perez: Thank you.

Zacca Thomaz: Just getting back with Yeraldi Perez. You were mentioning Pablo [Estupiñan] should be part of the…

Perez: Yes! So Pablo was an organizer who did the CNL fellowship before I did. He did it for two years. Him, Jordan [Cooper], and Hal [Bergold], and I kinda started around the same time, between either six months to two years apart. Pablo, he had the same trajectory similar to that I did, or I had similar to what he did. He was actually the lead organizer for us while I was still an organizer, then became deputy, and then eventually became director during the pandemic. And I wanted to just put it there because none of the work that we did—especially during the pandemic and being able to sustain that work—would’ve happened without his leadership, Jordan’s leadership. And I speak about the work that we did from my perspective. But similar to the work that our leaders do, all of this is a collective effort. Our members, we organize them to take collective action, and the work that we did was collective or collaborative, and because of their leadership and their tenacity and their commitment to community, it was part of the reason why we were able to sustain the work for so many years and build that leadership. And also to sustain the work specifically around the pandemic, making sure that our folks felt empowered and connected during that time. I wanted to just mention them because I spoke about my work from my perspective, or the work that I did specifically, but none of that work would’ve happened without them.

Zacca Thomaz: Amazing, thank you, Yeraldi. Is that all?

Perez: Yeah, yeah.