Mildred James

Zacca Thomaz: Now we’re on. So today is April 14, 2023. This is Diana Zacca Thomaz from The New School. I’m here interviewing Mildred James from CASA in Mount Eden, in the Bronx. This interview is for the Parsons Housing Justice Lab’s Oral History Project. Thank you so much, Mildred. I think we can get started by talking about where you were born and raised, where you grew up, what that was like.

James: All right. I was born and raised in Harlem. In fact, I was in Harlem Hospital when I was delivered. I lived in Harlem, and there were never any problems that I knew of from a child growing up to be an adult. People in the neighborhood were like family. We had some people whose husbands had lost their jobs, and the neighbors found out, and we had what we called “rent parties.” What people would do was have food and, of course, some drinks, and some people had card games. The money that was collected would help pay the rent so the families would not be evicted. This happened for quite a while. People did it. It was like a whole family was about, it was from Lenox Avenue to Fifth Avenue, a lot of buildings about six feet tall. It was a family. No child could do anything wrong because, as soon as your parents came home, they were told about what you did [laughs]. So, you didn’t get away with that. But I never had any problems. I never saw anything like that.

And I moved in the Bronx because I wanted to get a new apartment. I found the apartment through The New York Times. And I came and saw that. There was very much screening. The person who showed you the apartment made sure that you had a job, that you had a bank account, and that the job would give you a reference that you worked there. You could not even bring a plant to the first front door. All furniture that I had to put in my apartment, I had to go through the back where the freight elevators were.** **And in fact, the stores knew about that. When I told them where I was living, they said, “Oh, we know 975. Yes, we go right to Gerard Avenue, and we bring it through there.”

Five years ago, it changed. We had new management now and they don’t screen anybody. Some of the neighbors are not too happy with our new neighbors because they’re noisy and they throw things out the window. It’s not a happy place now. But years ago, it was beautiful, beautiful. We had no problems with that.

Zacca Thomaz: And when was it that you moved there?

James: 1990.

Zacca Thomaz: And what brought you there to the Bronx?

James: I just happened to look through the _Times _and saw this apartment, and that was it. I said, “Okay, I’ll try that.” You know, nothing special. Just I saw it, and came in, and I liked when I saw in the apartment, and I’ve been there ever since.

Zacca Thomaz: And what was the neighborhood like?

James: The neighborhood, people were friendly, they were polite. That’s why I’m saying, what’s happening now is shocking me, because in the mornings, when you go to work, it’s “Good morning. How are you?” Even if you didn’t know the person, but after a while you’d be in the neighborhood, they’d recognize your face. It really was, it’s much different. And now, I don’t know if the pandemic killed us or what, but we’re not the same people.

Zacca Thomaz: You’ve noticed that difference since the pandemic?

James: Yeah, it’s gotten worse. It’s gotten worse. It really has. But that’s what happened with me. And I guess you want to know how I got involved with CASA.

Zacca Thomaz: Yes.

James: I joined the Forty-fourth Precinct Community Council as a member, and a young lady named Jackie Delvea [phonetic] came to the meeting, and she did a pitch about the CASA organization that she was in charge of. She wanted people to come and to hear what could be done for other tenants who were having problems with their apartments, like not getting heat and hot water, not getting repairs done. And I’m sitting in the audience and saying, “I have no problem like that.” So, I said, “You know what? Let me go to this meeting and see what they’re talking about.” And I did. And I was kind of shocked when I heard what’s going on. I said, “Okay, I’ll do that.” So she says, “Well, we’ll go—" with her and I and a young man named Nelson Castro, because he spoke Spanish—“We’ll go door-knocking.” That’s what we did.

We walked around and knocked on doors asking the tenants, “Are you having any kind of problems with your apartment, with anything in the building?” And some said yes. So, we said, “Would you come to the meeting? We can give you some help, give you some instructions how you can help yourself.” Some of them came and they became members. And when we did that, we went to building to building to building. I remember one building we went to was 1750, either 59 or 50, Grand Concourse. It’s a building–must be about ten-stories high, I passed it sometime on the cab–and they had people whose apartments was terrible, things falling out the ceiling. They said they spoke to the management, and they’re giving them the runaround. And I asked, “Do you have the manager’s telephone number?” And they said, “Yes.” “Good. Can I have it?” So, we call the manager, and “I’d like to meet with you.” I don’t know if what we said to him, made him say, “I’m going to do something,” but they got their apartments taken care of. Whatever was said, I have no idea. I’m being honest with you, I have no idea. I know I spoke to the person, I’m saying, “Would you want your family to live like this?” I recall saying that. And they came back to the meeting [the tenants], and they said, “Thank you so much. We have been living like this for years.” I said, “No, you can’t live like that.” And it was good. And again, I don’t know what happened.

I’m on the [Bronx] Community Board Four and a gentleman came to one of my meetings. He was talking about how he didn’t have any elevator service in his building, and he had seniors in there. It was six months that seniors couldn’t stay in their homes because they can’t walk up all those stairs. I said, “That’s terrible. Did you call anybody?” He said, “They’re ignoring my calls.” I said, “Can I have the number?” I called the number. Again, I must have said something. Because the guy called me up. He said, “Thank you very much. Do you know we have an elevator now?”

Zacca Thomaz: Was this also around the time when you joined CASA?

James: I was in CASA at that time. When you see people suffering—I know I do—you have to do something about it. And I always tell people at CASA: We’re here to serve one another. You cannot let a person stumble and go by themselves. You have to help. And this is what CASA is about. We’re here to help. We’re here to teach you to protect yourself so you can be empowered. And if you stumble, we’re there to help you along the way. Because as we always say, “I’m not going to give you fish to eat. I’m going to show you how to fish for yourself so you can feed yourself.” And this is what we do. This is what CASA is all about. They believe in caring, they’re concerned, they’re passionate. We all feel the same way about the people.

Most people do come to CASA when they have issues. I had none. But I feel that I should help these people who have problems. We are to do that for one another. And that’s why we’re successful. We have the workshops, we teach them [tenants] about their rights. And we let them know, “Remember, we’re here. We’ve got your back. We will do for you.” And they have been successful, and that’s what we do.

Zacca Thomaz: Tell me about those early days at CASA, because you joined right when it started, right?

James: Yes.

Zacca Thomaz: In 2005? What was it like then? What were the main things that you were doing with CASA, or that CASA was doing?

James: We did door-knocking. We were trying to build membership at the time. And we did build membership by knocking on doors and helping the people with their situations. We had held workshops to teach them, let them know certain things, what your rights were. That helped them as well. We didn’t do much rallying. We did more rallying, like 2010 and stuff. But in the beginning, what we did was actually bring the people in to teach them what they can do for themselves.

Zacca Thomaz: And you mentioned that you were door-knocking with someone who spoke Spanish.

James: Yes, Nelson Castro. I had gone into some of the buildings myself without any person. But what had happened, most of the people who were coming were African Americans. And I was saying, “I saw some Spanish-speaking people. Shouldn’t we have these people? They live here, too.” And I said, “Unfortunately, I don’t speak any Spanish.” So, what we’re going to do, Nelson speaks Spanish. When I speak English, he lets them know what I’m saying. And then, all of a sudden, we had more Spanish-speaking people coming in, which was good. Because we have a diverse community. And this is important, so everybody’s involved there. In the past, we were doing that very well. We had no problem with that. Yeah, it was good.

Zacca Thomaz: That’s amazing. And tell me about CASA becoming more involved in rallying, as you said, with the campaigns.

James: Yeah, one of the things we started doing is that we found out people going to housing court don’t know how to navigate it. They didn’t know where to go, what to do, who they’re talking to. Most of the time, they would talk to the landlord’s attorney. We met with the judge, the Chief Judge Snyder [phonetic]. We were there with her, also with Constable Rivera [sic, Senator Gustavo Rivera], the state senator, and Latoya Joyner, assemblywoman [77th District of the New York State Assembly, 2015-2024]. And we asked her, “We need certain things done.” One, we need that any person who works in the court should have an ID visible with their name on it, so the person knows who they’re approaching. The second thing they should do is have some type of screen showing what the process is, both in English and Spanish. In addition to that, when the tenant comes before the judge, he or she [the judge] should say, “Listen, you’re signing this stipulation. Do you know what you’re signing?” To protect the person. We did that. We also had Letitia James; she was the [New York City] Public Advocate [2013-2018]. And we had our banners saying, “This has to be done now.” Then sure enough, they did it.

Zacca Thomaz: What were the things they changed?

James: They changed what I just said.

Zacca Thomaz: All those things.

James: All the things were changed, every one of them. They did that.

Zacca Thomaz: And what about Right to Counsel? That was part of—

James: Right to Counsel came, that was one good thing. It took a couple years for that, but Right to Counsel: you can’t go before a judge without some kind of attorney with you. You don’t know, I don’t know, you’re not a legal person. And it took until 2017 when we had [Bill] de Blasio, when he was mayor, come to the New Settlement auditorium—and I was there with him, we had a bunch of us there—and he signed the bill into law. That was one celebration we could not forget. We got it done. And that’s great, because a person walking in by themselves, they don’t know. I wouldn’t know, even though I’ve worked with CASA. Your attorney would know what to do and how to do it. So that was a good thing. And the best part was the rent freeze.

RGB [Rent Guidelines Board], we were saying people are paying so much out of their pocket for rent, and they’re low-income. Most of the people in the areas I know in [Bronx Community] Board 4, the annual income at the time was about $27,000 a year. And Board 5 was about $24,000, something less. And we fought and rallied. We had over 500 people testimony on this. For some reason, the RGB listened, and it was the first [rent] freeze in forty years.

Zacca Thomaz: Was that 2015?

James: Yeah. And I’m saying, “Whoa, this is wonderful.” And then the following time—because it’s every year that they’re having it—they had a one percent for a one-year lease and 1.5 percent for a two-year lease. Last year, oh my God, they killed us last year [laughs]. But it was good. Those were things that I was very proud that I was involved in. I was very happy about that. Because when you put work and effort in something and you see the results, that’s what makes you happy. That’s the important part.

Zacca Thomaz: Tell me about the process of going to the RGB, participating in the hearings. What was that like for you and the people you were with?

James: Well, you prepare for it. You help people do their little speech. And then you tell them they have a certain time to talk because they have a timer there. And you express yourself: what this will do for you if this increase is too large. Eventually, it puts you to a position where you can’t pay your rent and you’re homeless. And that’s another factor. We question and say, “If you don’t keep people in their apartments, your homeless[ness] rate is going to skyrocket. What are you going to do then?” It is better to keep a person in their home than to put them into a shelter where the money is higher and some of these businesses, these houses, they turn their homes into a shelter. They’re charging $3,000, $4,000 per room! And a person owns $1,400. Look at the savings you’re making. This is what you have to look at. You’re talking about economy, that’s what you’re talking about. When we had the RGB and then we did everything we could to make sure that these people would not have that problem.

Zacca Thomaz: When did you start that campaign with the RGB?

James: Oh gosh, I can’t remember the year, but it’s been quite a while. We’ve been doing this for quite a while. I can’t remember the year, to be honest with you, but it’s been a while. Every year we have this testimony, in fact, every year. I think Randy [Dillard, CASA leader] would know more than I, because he was even in Manhattan doing his pitch, so I don’t remember that one. But we did, we were very happy about that. I think this month or next month, they’re going to do some more testimonies about that.

Zacca Thomaz: And these campaigns that you’ve mentioned already are the RGB one, the one in the housing court, all those issues, are they decided by the tenants? You, the members, did you decide together that those were the issues you wanted CASA to focus on?

James: We have, because these are the issues affecting the people in the community. This is why we were targeting this. When every person has a problem and it’s affecting a multitude of people, that’s what the campaign is after. Like we have the Eviction-Free Bronx [campaign]. We’re trying to make sure that we have no evictions. And because, as I said before, I don’t see people being evicted, particularly since this pandemic hit us. We’ve hit it bad. A lot of people lost their jobs, and some people weren’t even allowed to work remote or nothing. So, it was a bitter time. It was a bitter time.

And the landlords knew about this. I mean, they say, “I’m not getting my money.” But we had other agencies like, they had ERAP [New York State Emergency Rental Assistance Program]. It was an ERAP policy that they had, they had money. And they had Homebase also, through HRA [New York City Human Resources Administration], they were given money to help them out. I don’t know if our governor gave us any money [laughs], but we did have people to help. In the Bronx, what I heard, I had known about it—it had grown from 7,500 people being evicted in the Bronx to 12,000. That’s a lot of people being evicted. We’re not talking about upstate. We’re talking Bronx only. That’s a tremendous amount. And then I’m wondering sometimes, when I walk in the streets, I see people talking to themselves. They’re so distraught, they don’t know what to do, because you’re in a position you’ve never been before. And it can make you feel a little bit upset and your mind can go a little bit—because you’re in a bad position. This is the problem that’s happening. And I see a lot of young people out there. A lot of them. I don’t know if they got put out the house or what, but it does seem like something happened. Something happened badly. It’s too many that I see. And you worry about it, because you have to be sure they don’t attack you or something. Because some people who are disgruntled, they take it out on anybody. That’s the problem. A lot of these people are homeless, and that’s the sad part. Keep them in their homes, your crime will go down, you won’t have people walking around acting like there’s something wrong with them mentally. I can imagine what it’s like when you have no place to stay. That’s a terrible feeling, it has to be. So maybe—let’s hope for the best. I’m hoping that we can get this thing through. Making sure that everybody feels that they can be empowered and learn from any organization, including CASA or any other organization, that what they learn, to help themselves will help themselves.

Tonight I’m having a meeting in my lobby because we have issues in our building. We lost our security, and they are not putting it back. I had to contact the borough president. In fact, I have to go over there Monday with authorization for them to intervene for helping us to get them [security] back. Tonight, we’re having our meeting to hear what the other complaints are and I’m hoping—I’ve already met with HPD [New York City Housing Preservation and Development], I’ve sent out to DHCR [New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal] telling them I wanted building-wide rent reduction, because they’ve taken away a service that we paid for. We paid for this. I guess money is the root of all evil. Sometimes you think about that. I don’t mind a man making money. I mean, you have a business, you want to make money, yes. But you should do the right thing. Maintain the building and security. We have 180 units of a north and south side. Fifteen units on each floor and three stairwells. Very dangerous. We had security for twenty-four hours, seven days a week. So that was good. In fact, we had a good landlord back in 2015, E&M Associates. They hired some of the people and I became the supervisor. Would you believe this? [laughs] And I had made up an attendance sheet making sure they signed in. It was for the superintendent. It was for two porters and the handyman, and all of my security guards. But I was smart: everybody got paid except me. I was not on the payroll. I was on the list as they’re reporting to me, but I didn’t take any salary. I kept paying my rent. It worked. And then they decided to put some other people in. So, I lost my no-paying job [laughs]. But it was okay.

What I like about CASA is that we work together as a group. We’re a unit. And I’m proud that I had the opportunity to interview organizers. And one of the organizers I remember back here in 2012, 2013–her name was Tamara Chizuk [phonetic]. She was a director, and her executive director was Jack Doyle [then executive director at New Settlement Apartments]. And they wanted to hire an organizer. I was on there with another lady to interview her. The young lady, Tamara, said to me she called me “Ma.” She said, “Ma, I’ll let you interview her, but I’m not too impressed with her.” I said, “All right, give her a shot.” The girl came on. She gave a presentation that was out of this world. She was working with SROs [Single-Room Occupancy housing] and they were treating them very poorly. She had the nerve to go to the man’s house to challenge him, “Why are you treating these people the way that you are?” I said, “That’s what you call chutzpah.” That’s what you call it. She did it. So, when she left, she [Tamara] said, “So what do you think?” I said, “You’ve been complaining to me that you have two hats: you have to run CASA with the organizers, and you have to go around getting funding for the organization itself, CASA.” I said, “She can run CASA for you, and you can do the begging all you want. She can do it.” The executive director, Jack Doyle, said, “Mildred, are you sure?” I said, “I’m positive.” He said, “I’ll take your word, because you ran CASA for me for three months without pay.” Before he got the girl Tamara, I ran CASA for them. And I didn’t want any money, because Jack Doyle was a very nice person, and I didn’t mind helping. And do you know what happened to that young lady we got? She became a director of CASA. Her name is Susanna Blankley, and she’s now moved on to a bigger and better job. She’s in charge of the Right to Counsel [NYC] Coalition. She’s coordinator for that. I told her—I’m boasting now— “I know talent when I see it.” This girl was good. “I don’t know how she didn’t impress you, but she impressed me.” And she [Tamara] said, “Yes, you’re right. She’s good.” I said, “I told you that.” And she became a director right there.

Zacca Thomaz: Is that common for leaders to participate in the hiring process?

James: Oh, yes. We hire the organizers. Yes, we do. Yes, we do.

Zacca Thomaz: And Susanna, tell me about your experience working with her during these years that she was at CASA.

James: Susanna is a person that she’s very transparent. She lets you know everything you wanted to know. She told the organizers, “The CASA leaders are your boss. And you are to understand that you work with them collectively. You have to do this with them.” And some of them said they were scared of us. I didn’t know she told them that, but she did. We had meetings with her. In fact, we would also be told how we were doing as CASA leaders, because we had to have a campaign we had to be involved in. We have to be involved with workshops. We had to facilitate meetings. And we had to help prepare the agenda. So, when you did all of these things and they kept track of us—Well, she did anyhow, because she was good at her job. They would let you know how you’re doing as a CASA leader. But she was very transparent. Whenever they had funds coming in, she would let us know how much came in and how much was paid out. And everybody cared a lot about her because they knew she would not hide anything from us. Nothing she hid from us. We were very pleased with her. We’re sad she left, but you know, for bigger and better things, I don’t blame her. I said, “Yes, go ahead and do it. It’s wonderful.” I see her on Zoom with her two daughters now, and she’s still the coordinator of the Right to Counsel Coalition. She’s got people reporting to her. I know that they’re getting the same thing that CASA got from her. They definitely are, because she’s a bright woman, very bright, very kind. And that’s the kind of person you need to help. Because the Right to Counsel Coalition not only affects the Bronx, it’s Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, you know, the whole gamut. But she was good. I liked her from the beginning, and I still get involved with her now because that’s the kind of person she is. That’s good.

Zacca Thomaz: Do you remember when it was that you helped hire her?

James: Yeah, when she gave me the presentation, how she was talking about what she was doing. And she showed us fliers and things. And as I said, what hit me is the fact that she felt so strong about the way they were treated that she went to the man’s house and said to him, “You can’t get away with this. This is enough.” I said, “That’s a person who really cares.” And if you’re a caring person, you will do a job well.

Zacca Thomaz: Do you remember what year that was?

James: Let’s see, what year was that? Oh gosh. I don’t remember the years too much. I just remember the time it happened, but I remember her doing that. I can even ask her, “When was that?” Because she told me the last time she was here, seven years or eight years. She was telling us last year or something, maybe twenty-something? I gotta ask her, because it happened long ago. You keep going and you don’t worry about the time. You just worry about the incident itself, you know?

Zacca Thomaz: Yeah, yeah. So, from what you were telling me, you joined in 2005, and then the campaigning started later, some years later. Is there more you’d like to share about what it was like, those years that you were knocking on doors and canvassing people, asking them to join, forming the tenant associations, what that was like? Any more anecdotes or stories from that time, before the big campaigns, that were important to you?

James: Most of the thing happened—when we did get the people to come, and we did—we actually went to meet the management. And that’s how they got the results done. Because in fact, on my block 911, no, 901, they had a lady, her refrigerator was not working, and they kept stalling her. And I went to the office, and I said to them, “This woman needs this stuff,” and she got it. Another person had repairs, 911, I went to the office, we got it. What we did: any time you came in with a complaint, and you already tried your best, I would go after them. I’d go myself, go and ask them, “What’s going on?” Because it’s not fair, it’s not fair to treat people that [way]. And I guess I was lucky, I don’t know. I mean, I’m not rude to people, but I guess if it happened, they got it done. And that’s what we were doing all the time. Knocking doors, hearing complaints, having them come to the meetings and telling us what—and then we’d go after the management. We went to talk to a lot of managers. We did more interviews with managers about the situations that the people were in. That’s what we were doing. It was a lot of that. And we got results. And I think the word spread because people started coming back, ‘Guess what happened? I had this and they got that done.” People started coming and coming and coming. And it grew and grew. As I say, when we were here, then we went to 35 Marcy Place, and when we had our general meetings, people went to the wall. We had to go to 1501 Jerome Avenue [New Settlement Community Center] because it was too many people. The word spread.

Zacca Thomaz: And when was it that it grew so much, the membership?

James: Let’s see. The membership grew I would say in 2010? And then we, 35 Marcy Place, we’ve been there now about, what, five years later? We’ve been over at 1501 [Jerome Avenue]—I gotta go back to it—we’ve been there for about five years. So then maybe back 2011, yeah. It started moving fast, because when we know it is 35 Marcy Place, there was no room for anybody. And then we had the request, and we got the place at 1501.

Zacca Thomaz: And why do you think that more and more people wanted to join CASA?

James: I think the word spread out. I think the word went out that CASA fights. And they saw us in front of the housing court, rallying. They saw that. People stand by and hear us say, “We need you, we need to help you navigate, we need you to do this, we need this for you,” and people hear it and they came. They came in droves, because they saw the word went out: CASA is doing this. They know what we’re doing.

Zacca Thomaz: Can you tell me more about the importance of having your meetings in English and in Spanish, too? It sounds like, from the very beginning, you noticed that that was important. Can you tell me about the culture of having those two languages in CASA meetings?

James: I remember in 2005, we didn’t have a lot of Spanish-speaking people, but as years go on, we had an influx of people coming into the Bronx who were Spanish-speaking and a lot of them didn’t speak English or they didn’t understand it, they were limited. So, we said “You have to have both languages,” and we had to hire interpreters, so that when I’m talking to you in English, you should know what I’m saying in your language. And when the Spanish person is speaking, I should know what they’re saying as well. We have what we call “language justice” so everybody can participate. This is what we want. So that nobody is segregated. Everybody’s together. We want them to know. It’s an organization where we feel it’s diverse but we’re all a unit. We have power in numbers, and we all are on the same page. We want you to understand what we’re saying and you’re going to understand what I’m saying and vice versa. That’s what we’re about. You have to do that. You can’t put people aside and leave them alone. And some people have some good ideas, they don’t have to speak the language, but they know. When you’re telling them something, they say, “By the way, can we do this?” So you include that person. That’s what you do. You have to do that. In fact, we had a meeting yesterday about hiring the director, because director Yeraldi [Perez] is leaving, and we said that the director must speak Spanish fluently because I know, most of the tenants are moving in my building now speak Spanish. Most of them. So tonight, I’m going to have someone to interpret what I say in English for the Spanish-speaking people. This is how it is. This is what’s going on today and we have to go along with it. You have to include people. Exclusion is not acceptable. I don’t accept that at all. It’s inclusion that we have. And that’s how we become successful. That’s how you become successful.

Zacca Thomaz: Excellent. So, you told me a little bit about the campaign for the housing court, the RGB rent freeze campaigns. Were there other campaigns that were important to you, were meaningful, that were memorable in your time in CASA that you’d like to talk about?

James: Well, let me think now. I don’t know. I was reading your thing you had here [the interview guide], and I was thinking about the ones that I thought I got involved with a lot. They had some other campaigns that I didn’t get too much involved in. But the ones that I mentioned to you is what I got involved with that I really liked about that. They have some others. Right to Roof, I don’t know much about that one. I heard about it, but I didn’t join it. I joined the Eviction-Free Bronx. But that’s about it that I can think of now.

Zacca Thomaz: The rezoning of Jerome Avenue was—

James: Oh, they had that.** **Yeah, that was something. They did that rezoning, and the people were protesting. But I don’t know what happened. I’m looking, when I look at the stores, these automobile stores and stuff, they’re still there. I don’t know what happened. All of that rallying and marching, I don’t see anything happen with that. I’m glad you mentioned it. I’m going to ask about that. Because they did do the rezoning, but I’ve seen only a small segment they’re building new houses. But most of the places that they have the tires [auto-shops] and things, they’re still there. Cromwell Avenue, I still see things there. I’m wondering what happened. It was a select few that they decided to throw out and build some property, or what? I’m going to ask that question. “What happened?” Because the way I heard the rezoning was going to be doing is they’re getting rid of all of that. Getting rid of it all. And I’m wondering what happened with that. Well, you can see I wasn’t too much into that. [laughs]

Zacca Thomaz: [Laughs] It’s all good.** **But tell me then, was it reforming housing court, the Right to Counsel campaign, and the RGB were the main ones?

James: Yes.

Zacca Thomaz: And then, more recently, the Eviction-Free Bronx.

James: Right.

Zacca Thomaz: We can focus on those. I was curious, in terms of the first campaign for reforming the housing court–and you’re already pushing for Right to Counsel, so that was 2012, and it passed into law in 2017, so five years in between since you started pushing for it to when it happened—

James: Yeah, it takes a long time to fight and try to get these politicians to do what you want them to do. Believe it. You go all over the place. You do your preaching and screaming and asking, and it’s difficult. It really is. It’s a fight. It’s like going up a hill with ice, and it keeps sliding down all the time. It’s very hard. It’s very, very difficult. Because now I know the Community Board Four is trying to fight with its bail reform. It’s a fighting battle. [New York Governor Kathy] Hochul is not moving. I don’t know why. I don’t know why she’s not moving on this. She’s talking about housing. Housing is important, yes. But I don’t know. We’ve got a lot of things. I kept telling people, “The politicians are not what they were thirty years ago.” We’ve got different politicians now. I hate them, what they do [laughs]. We have different ones now, but yeah. It took a long time. It took a long time for this thing [Right to Counsel] just to get into—and finally we got the mayor [Bill de Blasio] to sign it in and he came here to do it. It took a long time. You went to all kind of community boards. You went to the churches. You went to every place you could go to in order to get this done. And they stood there like they were stuck in cement. They would not move. And finally, it got done. Because I guess you keep pushing and keep pushing and keep pushing, you do get something done. But it’s such a fight all the time. Nothing’s easy. When you’re doing the right thing, it’s never easy. It’s never easy. You think it’s going to be done overnight? The only thing we were lucky getting the repairs to people’s apartments. That was pretty good. I don’t know how that happened, but it did. But for these bills are going to law? It’s a fight all the way. It’s a fight. It’s very, very difficult because first they don’t have the money and then they don’t want the money, or this person don’t want this and that one don’t want this. You’re talking about the Assembly versus the Senate. Oh my gosh. It’s difficult. When you’re dealing in politics, it’s very difficult.

Zacca Thomaz: And for you, since Right to Counsel passed, how do you see it? Do you see the changes? Do you think it’s—?

James: Well, Right to Counsel now, for downstate, we have a problem because there’s a shortage of attorneys. And the legal aid attorneys, which are free, some of them are leaving, going to another place to get paid more money and less cases. Because I understand it’s a contractual thing that each attorney has about forty cases. Now it’s going doubling it, and they can’t do it. They can’t do it and they’re leaving. I have an attorney now for the building that I’m living in. And he’s coming on the 26th to talk about what he’s trying to do to help us with our situation. But he likes what he does. That’s another factor. When a person likes what they do, they stick to it. And he likes what he does and he’s—But we’re trying to get [Right to Counsel] upstate and that’s a fight. That’s a fight. Randy [Dillard] is fuming because he’s very involved in that. And they want the “Good Cause [Eviction bill].” And Senator [Rachel] May won “Good Cause,” and it didn’t happen for her. I’m speculating, I could be wrong, but she put the Right to Counsel upstate in the backyard.

Zacca Thomaz: Who did?

James: Her name is Rachel May. She’s a state senator. She wrote a bill with the assemblywoman Latoya Joyner for the—we want it [Right to Counsel] statewide now, not only downstate but upstate as well. And they wrote this bill. We had a townhall with her and they were saying, “Yeah, yeah, we’re going to get it done.” They got the votes in the assembly. And supposedly the Senate has to do with the financial aspect of it. And I found out the other day she didn’t put it on the floor. And I said, “Uh-oh.” Don’t want to talk about people, but I got the feeling she didn’t like it because Good Cause [Eviction] didn’t go through like she wanted. Could be wrong, but that’s my feeling. So, we’re still in stalemate now. I don’t think it’s going to go through. I think they’re going to have to go another year because it’s not being funded. And these people upstate are being evicted as we speak. This is no good. And these are her people. She’s from upstate. Diana, I don’t know what to think about. I’m not a politician, so I don’t know whose hand you got to shake or what’s—I can’t say. But I feel I could never be a politician because I can’t compromise. When it’s going to affect the constituents, I can’t do it. My skin is too thin. I can’t do that. They put you in office to do something, you’ve got to fight for them. I believe in that. They said, “Why don’t you run [for office]?” “Not me. Mm-mm.” They beat me up already. They beat me up. I’d never make it. I’d never make it. I couldn’t make it at all. So, I said, “Nope, not me.” Can’t do it. I’ll stay with CASA and work with CASA and try to be on the background to help out the best I can. Yes, but politics is tough, tough, very tough.

Zacca Thomaz: Well, here at CASA, they call you The General.

James: Yes, they do.

Zacca Thomaz: [Laughs] Where did that come from?

James: Because they said I’m one of the founding members and that I speak with authority. And because last night they were asking how to go for this hiring committee with the director. And we were given proposals. We’ll look at the applications, we’ll pick out the candidates who we can actually interview. And they said then we’re going to have to have a telephone interview. And they said “Who should do that? Are you guys going to do that?” And I, “No! Yeraldi’s going to do that.” The guy’s, “You heard what The General said. I agree with The General.” Yeah. I don’t really talk that way, but I’m wondering if maybe how I speak to people, particularly when we’re talking about the managers and getting things done. It must be how I make it sound to them that they decided to do what they did. I don’t know. Maybe that’s God's gift to me, I hope. I’m happy it got done. My happiness is when people say, “Thank you. I got it [the repairs]. My place is nice.” That makes me happy. You’ve given me a big present because I’m happy it’s got done. It’s more important. People are important. That’s what the whole fact is about. They are important. So, but I don’t know. That’s why they call me The General [laughs]. Yeah. I guess that could be it. I don’t know.

Zacca Thomaz: But it sounds like you’ve always had this conviction, right? This urge to help people to fight the good causes.

James: Yeah, well, that’s what I say. That’s what I used to tell Randy [Dillard] and I tell the other leaders: We’re here to serve one another. Because if it wasn’t so, we would just be one person or two people. We have a multitude of people, and everybody have their own issues and stuff. We all have different personalities. Some of them may not point your light, but you don’t judge. Judging—need not be judged. I mean, we got some people going out, leadership can talk, oh my gosh, talk until you say, “Oh gosh, let me go to sleep.” But you don’t say a word. You sit there and listen. And I will not say anything to these people because it’s not for me to say. They want to express themselves; they can do so. They are people. And maybe they have a reason they want to express themselves. Who am I to tell them you can’t talk? You have to accept people as they are. That’s what you have to do. And you never will have a problem. Being critical? Nah. I’m not perfect. So why am I gonna pick on somebody else? So, that’s me.

Zacca Thomaz: Sounds great. Tell me about the Eviction Free Bronx campaign, because that’s a more recent one.

James: Yeah. Jordan [Cooper, former CASA co-director] had started that but she left, that co-director. We’ve had a few meetings. I haven’t gotten really actively involved because I’ve been involved with some of the other stuff with my Board and I’m on the Forty-fourth Precinct, I’m the president of the [Community] Council there. And I think I’m going to have to step down with some of these things because, if it interferes with that, because if I’m the president of the Council, I can’t go to the meeting. And we had to adjust things. I think I missed two meetings. I went to one or two. And people go off on the agenda. We’re here to discuss what we’re going to do [interruption]._ _What we’re going to do to prevent evictions in the Bronx. And we were supposed to have what they call sitting at the courtrooms, taking notes. If we see people who are sitting there waiting to go into the courtrooms, asking them, “Do you have an attorney?”. Helping them like that. But then they start talking about some of, “My neighbor, making noise.” That’s got nothing to do with Eviction-Free Bronx. Why are you talking like that? You know, I don’t say it. I’m saying, “Well, let’s stick to the agenda, please.” So, I haven’t talked to Yeraldi [Perez, then CASA director] about that yet. But we had, I think, last Thursday, I couldn’t make that meeting. So, I have to get more involved with that meeting as well, because we want to prevent that here. Because when I heard the amount of evictions, like I said before, that’s a lot of evictions. So, we got to determine what tactics we’re going to use in order to prevent that. We have to do that. So, I know poor Yeraldi, she’s got so much on her plate, and she’s leaving in June. Oh, my gosh. It’s a lot. But I’ll try my best. That’s all I can do. I’ll try my best to see what I can find out. But I’m going to find out about that rezoning. I’m glad you mentioned that to me, because when I saw those places, I said, “I thought these places were going to be closed up, and they’re still here!” You know, why are they still here? I don’t know. Got to ask some questions.

Zacca Thomaz: And what was the—because this Eviction-Free Bronx, it started during the pandemic, right?

James: Yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: What was the pandemic like for CASA people, for you, while you were leading it during the pandemic? How do you think it impacted the neighborhood?

James: To be honest with you, Diana, I didn’t do a lot of going to all of those meetings. That’s why I say I’m kind of ignorant to a lot of the stuff, because I didn’t. I was more involved with the Forty-fourth Precinct and the Community Board, and particularly in my building now. I had to do so much, getting people to sign certificates and signing the papers for the reduction in rent. So, I kind of didn’t do—I’m not a good person now [laughs]. I didn’t do that good. But I know the last meeting I had attended—and I’m saying, “Why didn’t you something? Let’s stick to the agenda. What are we going to do to prevent this?” I’ll have to talk to Yeraldi and ask her, you know, what are we doing moving forward. I’ll have to find that out. So, you get me to do some work now [laughs].

Zacca Thomaz: I’m curious, because you’re the leader who has been a leader at CASA for the longest, right?

James: Yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: You came in 2005. You’re still there. Why is that, that you stayed with CASA? What is the meaning of being a leader in CASA for you, for your life?

James: The reason I stayed in CASA is because there’s always going to be a problem that people have, and there’s always going to be a landlord who’s not gonna do the right thing. Usually, it’s new people coming in who don’t know how to negotiate, and for us to teach them that. For me, as long as I can put one foot in front of the other, I’m going to do that. Because we have to help people who can’t help themselves. And if you do have the tools, you’re supposed to use them. Letting them know that you are here to be their back. You’re there. We’re there to empower you, to make sure you can do for yourself. And as again, as I said before, if you stumble, we’re there to pick you up and keep you going. So, this is wha’s for me. I’m going to stay in CASA as long as I can. I am, because I want to. I want to do that. I can see CASA moving forward, doing a lot of things, because now the first time we’re going to be doing is to hire a director. That’s going to be pretty much what we’ve never done before.

Zacca Thomaz: For CASA?

James: CASA has never hired a director. Not outside. The director always was a person who was maybe a deputy director or a lead organizer, and they saw the potential and they got promoted. But we’re doing it for the first time outside. The leaders are going to be looking at the applications, going to be interviewing the people, and determining who’s going to take that job, because the girl [Yeraldi Perez] is leaving the end of June. We have to prepare that. We have a lot to do. We have a lot to do in a small length of time. But as far as me and CASA: yes, I will continue staying and helping, hearing the stories people have. And some of the stories you hear are unbelievable, though. I mean, what these landlords do. One lady had the nerve to tell a woman, because she was Dominican, that he was going to have her deported.

Zacca Thomaz: A landlord?

James: Yeah. I think the landlord or a manager, one of them, because she told us at the beginning—her name is Ana [phonetic]—she speaks only Spanish. And she said, one guy knocked on the door and asked her, was she a citizen? And at one of my workshops, I told the people, “If anybody knocks on your door and asks you if you’re a citizen of this state, tell them yes. Tell them yes. Don’t say no. Tell them yes.” And they looked, I said, “Yes. If it’s a lie, don’t worry about it. Say yes” [laughs]. That’s what I told them. But yeah, they told her they’re going to deport her. How are you going to deport her? You have nothing to do with that! He wanted her out the apartment, because he wanted to probably jack the rent up for somebody else, because people don’t know that CASA fought for the elimination of the vacancy [bonus]. And they are charging people [higher] rents. Because you’ve got a twenty percent increase when the apartment was vacant. You can’t get that anymore [with the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of 2019]. These people don’t know that. That’s the problem. So, we have our workshops, we let them know. What you do, you find out from DHCR [New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal] what your rent history is, and if they’re overcharging you, they have to give you that money back. Because the landlords, a lot of them are crooked.

One person had told me in my building that the tenant [who] was before him was paying $500 and change for the rent. She’s been there a long time. She relocated and eventually went back to Puerto Rico or something. And his rent got to be $1,000. I said, “How do you get $1,000? How do you get from $500?” I know the Rent Guideline Board don’t charge that much, I mean, come on! I said, “No, no, no.” I took myself right around the corner. And I said, “Explain to me this.” “Oh, they made a mistake.” “Yes, they did make a mistake. Please correct this.” But now my management, they’re putting homeless people in permanent housing. And they have a one-bedroom, they made a two-bedroom. And two people are homeless, and they have one room here, one room there. It’s $1,700 a person. And they’re telling me that the reason they get in trouble if they don’t house them. I don’t know who these people are. They’re supposed to be the Department of Homeless Services. They’re the tenant, and they put the people in there. We don’t know these people. So how do you fight that? I have to ask my attorney about this. I don’t know anything about that. How do you handle that? So normally what we do, we found, in the past, if I found somebody [who] was new, and I’d introduce myself to him. And the guy was telling us how he found out about the money. And I checked it, and I said, “Oh, no. You can’t do that.” “Oh, we made a mistake.” “Yeah, because you got caught, you made a mistake.” So, I don’t know how many people are in that category. In buildings that I know nothing about that they might be doing. That’s another problem. How do you stop them from doing this? That’s the problem I don’t know how you try to get as much people as you can, so that’s why I always say, “You can stay in CASA because there’s always going to be somebody that’s not going to do the right thing.” And you have to protect the tenant. You have to protect them. People are working two and three jobs just to pay rent. People are paying one-third of their income now for rent. They’re going to food banks to get food. Come on! This shouldn’t be. Should not be! We’re living in bad times, Diana. Two thousand five wasn’t bad-bad, but now it is very bad.

Zacca Thomaz: How has it changed for you over the past years or since when you moved here in the 1990s to now?

James: In the 1990s it was fine. As I say, everybody was polite and friendly and for some reason the landlords or the managing people weren’t crooks—because that’s what I call them. But when they start selling and changing hands, people getting greedy, and you see things happening. I saw it in my building. E&M were the only ones that worked with me and then when they sold the building, we got these other people here now called City Life and then I got friendly with the owner and he says, “Mildred I have to get out of real estate.” He sold his part that he had and he’s no longer. Now I got these people who don’t respond to my telephone calls or my texts. The only time they—I contact the boss, Larry, about [how] they vandalized [the building], on March 17th, on St. Patrick's Day. They [homeless people] came in, they tore a mirror down, they took two of our bulletin boards down, they tore some of the lights in the hallway down. They broke into mailboxes. We had never had this before. They’re defecating in the hallways. This is the homeless. This is what’s happening. If we had security, it wouldn’t be. Because we had twenty-four-hour security, we do verticals and do everything.

The police now can’t come into the building like they used to, because the City Council said, “No longer verticals.” They used to come to every building—what they call verticals—they check everything from top to bottom. Can’t do it no more. The City Council said no. The management or the owner would sign up to the different precincts. You can’t do it anymore. People were telling me that they had somebody doing things upstairs and doing—I got out of my apartment to go and put garbage in the compactor room and this lady–I don’t know what it was, I saw somebody sleeping on the stairwell going to the roof–and I’m saying, “Is that a human? Is that a person deceased or not?” So, I call the Forty-fourth [Precinct] and I asked him, “What should I do?” He says, “Don’t worry. I’ll send somebody out.” It was a woman. She was screaming at the police, “Why are you putting me out here? Other people sleep too!” “You have to go, miss. You have to go.” But she didn't want to go. So finally, I had the superintendent to take her mattress, her blanket, her shopping cart, and her broom out, so she didn’t come back. But we used to have that, they used to come up the buildings. If I call the precinct, they’ll do because I’m the president of the [Community] Council, but they don’t do it every building. This is bad. You’d call them up, they’d come up and check if somebody’s sitting there loitering, they’d take him out. They can’t do it anymore. City Council stopped that.

That’s no good. One of the ladies came last month to my Forty-fourth Precinct meeting, and she lives about two doors from me. She said the young people have taken over her building by sitting down smoking marijuana and not wanting to move. They were very concerned about that. So now, Roshino [phonetic], who is the sergeant of the neighborhood courting offices, he says, “I’ll go and take care of that.” I said, “Thank you very much. This girl’s scared. I don’t blame her.” But see, that’s what I’m saying: the politics. Why did you stop that? If the police could go into the building and take these people out, why would you stop that? You should’ve never stopped that. Diana, it’s bad [laughs]. I’m sorry, I hate to be talking about it, but it just bothers me. In the past, we had everybody working together, and all of a sudden somebody decides, “Oh no, you can’t do this, you can’t do that.” Why? You’re elected to a City Council seat, why are you doing this? You’re elected to be an assemblyperson, why are you doing this? You’re a state senator, why are you doing this? These are your constituents who put you in office! Why are you doing this? But most of them, they live in condos and co-ops or live someplace else, so they’re not worried about what people are doing to one another. That’s the bad part. I don’t understand it, but I guess I never will. But it’s something to see, though. I’m very upset about what’s going on. I don’t like this. That’s why I’m definitely having a meeting tonight and having my attorney come on the 26th, and the next step: I’m hoping with Vanessa Gibson’s area, the next thing I’m gonna try to get Channel 12 to embarrass the elected officials. But the judge told me—he was a board member with me—and I called him to wish him Happy Easter. He said, “Mildred. Call Channel 12 and embarrass them. I bet you they’ll do something about it fast.”

Zacca Thomaz: How does that work?

James: The Channel 12 comes, and they interview the people outside and they show what’s all going on. Because one of the ladies in CASA, she had a problem with raccoons by her door or her window. She kept telling the landlord about it. He ignored it. But she put it on Channel 12, they got it done. They got rid of that. They figured out some way to do it, so he told me, “That’s what you should do.” So, I said, “I’m gonna speak to—" I gotta go Monday over there to speak to this young lady Williams and then speak to Vanessa and see what she says, what can do, but that’s the next step. I have to do that because summer’s coming. Bad times and scary, scary, scary. I’m an old lady; I can’t run that fast [laughs].

I can’t run that fast and even if you can—Look at the people the other night. They were someplace in the Bronx here. In a restaurant and what did they do? There was a shootout between two young gang of people. One was twenty-five [years old], one twenty-one, and they got shot. Nothing but gunfire. I don’t know how they get guns. I wouldn’t know where to get a gun from, but they get guns. They get guns. They do things like this. It’s the people like you and I [who] get hit because they can’t shoot. It’s sad, really. Bad times we’re in. All you can do is hope and be alert. That’s what you can do. Not more than that, because it’s not good, it’s not good.

I’m not a happy camper these days, but I think the pandemic brought out the worst in people. Unless I didn’t see it before, but when I get my phone, I get the news: so many shootings and stabbings and—What is going on? The Forty-fourth Precinct have confiscated–every month they give us a statistic– they’re always confiscating numbers of guns. Numbers. Not one, numbers of guns. And you’ve got people who are repeated offenders with the guns. Where are they getting the money for the guns? How did they get this? I don’t understand. What happened? Six-year-old boy shoots his schoolteacher. So now the mother’s being charged for neglect. Why would you have a loaded pistol in your house? That a child could get access to. Why? This does not make sense. “What is wrong with you?” So now she’s being charged. The young lady [the schoolteacher], she’s only what–twenty-one or twenty-two? She had this shell in her chest, will be there for the rest of her life. They couldn’t take it out. They had an interview with her. Her hand got shot. If she didn’t do it like this [gestures], she’d have been dead. The bullet hit here, but it went through here. But this kind of slowed it down from killing her. Can you imagine that? Six-year-old! How did he know with a gun? Because he sees it in the home.

That’s why on the Forty-fourth Precinct we have a little small bank account. We have an organization called Blue Chips. And these are for young people. The police officers, you know, take them to different events. Let them do cleanups and stuff. They go to basketball and baseball and stuff like that. They’re not funded. So, what I try to do, and I asked my executive board, I said, “Listen, I’d like to withdraw $300 or $400 out of the account and give it to Officer Bueno [phonetic] so that he can have little snacks for the young people when they go to these events.” I don’t know what their home life is about, but at least they got some place they can feel okay. So, let’s do that. They said, “Yeah, we can do that.” You’ve got to encourage them. Because they’re starting young at these gangs. They’re starting young. And if we don’t try to show them–even though the household is bad—if we don’t try to show them, they’ll go to the gang.

I heard they’re putting kids ten years of age in gangs. This does not make sense. Because it’s from the home life. Mama and papa, they’re doing drugs. Right now, I’m taking care of a person who’s now, what, fifteen? I’ve been taking care of this person since he was eight. His mother and father, both drug addicts. The person had to take him in, and the mother had an apartment in the projects. They have a two-bedroom apartment, and the boy was sleeping, had his room, and the mother had her room. She decided to take the boy out of his room and put him in the hallway and put a crackhead in his room. I said to that person, “Get that kid out of there. Get him out of there.” He comes to your house on the weekends to eat, because he only eats breakfast and lunch during the week because there ain’t no dinner there. So, I said, “Take him out. I’m afraid this man may get half-crazy with his drugs and rape this boy, and he’ll be ruined for the rest of his life.” So he took him and kept him. He said, “I don’t have the money to do much.” I said, “I’ll give you the money. I don’t want this child to be hurt like that.” And he’s going to be—fifteen he’s going to be. This is what I say, Diana. We’re here to serve one another. You have to do that. You have to.

It’s sad. And as I say, that’s why I ask them, “Can I give him the money, out of the bank account there?” They say, “Yeah, okay, go ahead and do it.” Because we don’t know the lifestyle. This six-year-old shouldn’t have had a gun. What does he know what a gun is? It’s the lifestyle. That’s how he’s living. That’s the sad part. It’s how he’s living. I feel bad for some of these children, though. I really do. I’m glad I didn’t have to have that problem. You know what I mean? Some kids had a terrible time sometimes. But this is how I look at it.

Zacca Thomaz: And do you think that organizations like CASA or New Settlement, that they’ve been having an impact in trying to change that situation, or help the families?

James: You don’t know about it. You see, that’s the problem. You don’t know about that problem. What we can only do is help with the repairs or any harassment or something like learning their rights. But as far as what’s going on inside the house itself, we have no input on that. We have no idea. We have no idea. But as I say, when this Forty-fourth Precinct, that’s what I thought of, and I wanted the people on the board there to know, and they said, “Yeah, take your money out and give it to them. To help them out.” Because you don’t know what the family’s about. You don’t know what the family’s about. I’ve heard terrible stories about one boy who was out there selling drugs and his mother was on the drugs. What kind of lifestyle is that? There’s no lifestyle. He’s never going to be right. Never. It’s unfortunate, Diana. Very, very bad. But this is the world we live in. I wish they could get rid of these drugs completely.

Zacca Thomaz: When do you think the drugs became a more noticeable problem for you, here?

James: For me, I didn’t notice anything until–you know, believe me when I’m saying–until the pandemic came up. I remember when the crack era was here, and when the heroin era was here. I would go the store and see people bending all over. I said, “What is that?” Never saw that before. People, you see them all drugged out. I don’t know, people, they lose what it is, and they say, “Well, let’s get high, because I don’t have anything anyhow.” I don’t know how the thinking is. But you see it, you see a lot. How you know there’s a lot? Because on different corners you see people selling drugs. If they don’t have the customers, they’ll leave. But they ain’t leaving, that means they got customers. What you call demand and supply. You see it. It’s terrible. And I’m wondering why we can’t stop this drug stuff. It’s coming from different places, like Mexico. There’s got to be a way you can stop this. Blow up the thing or whatever. I don’t know what they can do but get rid of it. The cartel is powerful. Must be powerful, because they can’t stop them. Because the police are being paid. That’s the problem. People that do a lot of things for money. Oh Diana, I’ve bored you enough to tell you about these stories. But I’m telling you, this is, we shouldn’t live in this world like this. We could live very good if we only did the right thing.

Zacca Thomaz: With all this experience that you’ve had living in the Bronx, working with CASA, when you think about the future of the Bronx, the future of CASA, what are your main concerns and hopes?

James: Well, my concern is: Are we gonna get out of this thing that we’re in with this pandemic? Because the pandemic is supposed to be gone as of May 18th, that’s what the president says. But people are still acting the way they are. I don’t see the Bronx doing too good. Because every time Inspector Bellow [phonetic] has a meeting with me and our group, he’s giving us a collection of guns, shootings, shootings. Forty-fourth [Precinct] has the worst set of shootings you could find. Unless they start doing some real tough laws, we gonna be like the Wild West. I see that. And I don’t want that to happen, but I can see that happening. Because people are not getting better, Diana. They’re getting worse. And I don’t know how you’re gonna stop them. Every month, you have the same amount of guns being taken off the streets. Shootings, every time. This morning, it’s seven o’clock this morning: “Shootings in the Bronx. Shootings in the Bronx.” Maybe I’m unhappy about that. I don’t see it looking good.

You gotta change the laws. I spoke to Vanessa [Gibson] before she became Borough President, when they did a lot of changing the laws about how the police handling people. “Oh, they treat the Black people so bad, and they beat them up, and they—” I said, “How would you feel, if you were a police officer, and you approached a person, and they start cursing you out, calling you all kind of names, or throwing water at you, or spitting at you? You’re a human being. How would you think you would act? How would you act, if somebody treated you like that?” So, she said, “Well, no, but they take on Black people only.” I said, “Well, who’s in the community? But the Black people.” Let’s be real here. You got Black people in the community who are doing something wrong. What are the cops supposed to—“Let me give you a pat on the arm now, dear.” They have to show force. They have to show force. So she said, “Well, no, no.” I said, “Listen, you did put handcuffs on the police. You cut their hands off, so that you and I and your family and my family are in jeopardy. Because they know they can get away with what they’re doing, and that’s why they’re doing it.” She didn’t like what I said, but I sure told her. I said, “When it happens in your family, don’t cry, because you were the one who put that into law. You did it.” She’s now our Borough President. And she knows how I feel about it, because I saw her the other day.

You’re going to have to put those laws. It may sound like it’s old-fashioned, but you got to make it very tough. Make them afraid, and then somebody’s going to back off. Some of the cops are bad. Some of the cops are racist. I know that for a fact. We know it, because they’re people. They’re going to be like that. We know this is going to happen, but not all. If you have a hundred cops, maybe one or two might be like that, but the rest of them ain’t like that. They’re not. But you’re going to have to give them some power. You have to give them some power. Otherwise, people like Diana and Mildred walking down there, we don’t have a chance. We don’t have a chance. We do not have a chance. I don’t see too good, unless they do some changes. It’s going to get worse.

[01:16:55] That’s why I told little Sheila [Garcia], I’ve told her more than once, when she was director of CASA, and now she’s the director of organizing, I said, “Do not send your organizers in buildings by themselves. You got females or males, do not send them in.” She said, “Well, we don’t have so many to cover.” “Take your time. Don’t send one person in there.” In 2005, I could go into any building I wanted by myself. You can’t do it now. You cannot do it now. You put yourself in a situation, you may not come out. So, I told her. She disagrees with me, but I’m hoping with the next director, I can convince that person. I don’t like no one going into a building by themselves. I want you to bring in two. So, it takes you a couple of days more, because you’ve got to hit so many buildings, but not by yourself. No. Never by yourself. You’re dealing with the element that’s not good.

Zacca Thomaz: Have you had problems with that?

James: She said they haven’t had any, she told me, but I’m speculating it can happen. Prevention is better than cure. That’s what I’m talking about. Preventing this from happening. She disagrees with me. I’m not the director of organizing. But I told her, I said, “You know, I don’t want anything to happen to any of these organizers. You have to do something to make sure they’re safe.”

Zacca Thomaz: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like things have gotten more difficult in the area since—

James: It’s going from bad to worse. That’s exactly the term. Yes, it has.

Zacca Thomaz: And do you think that, despite [the fact that] CASA has obtained a bunch of really important victories, that you’ve mentioned, rent freeze for a couple of years, trying to not let it go too high, the Right to Counsel, the changes in housing court, do you see that kind of as an element that’s more hopeful about your experience here, your sense of belonging to the Bronx or sense of community? Do you think CASA kind of helps you navigate these difficult times?

James: I feel good when we do accomplish things when we’re trying to help people, yeah. It makes you feel calmer, because you’re there in an environment where you’re telling people who have issues and things that you can help them. But what I see for the Bronx? I don’t see it being that good. I really don’t. But I think CASA, if they can get the people to come out and talk to them for their individual problems, yeah. That’s okay. But we’re just like all the other places. Queens having problems, bad. I didn’t think Queens would have problems like this. They’re having the same thing we have in the Bronx. So yeah, Bronx, uh-uh. CASA, yeah, we can keep doing what we’re doing, and we’ll help the people. Definitely do that. But they gotta change the laws. I was telling somebody they left, I said, “Why don’t they go back to the old time when you used to flogging in public? Take them, beat them in public.” They said no. I read it in history, but they used to do that. Put people on a thing and beat them. I said, “I know that’s kind of crude.” But still, sometimes you have to go to the extreme in order to stop what’s going on. You can’t coddle these people. “Oh, so we gotta talk to them.” Talk to them [about] what? You can’t talk to them, because they’ve made their minds of what they want to do. I’m going to show you what’s going to happen to you while you’re doing this. I’m letting you know you’re gonna have this problem from me. You have to.

Zacca Thomaz: The General again.

James: Yeah, right? [laughs] Because I can’t see it working any other way. I can’t because you had a young man, he was what, twenty years of age, fifteen arrests. Not one day in jail. They arrested him and he came out. Arrested him and doing the same thing over. He thinks it’s a joke. He’s not scared of nothing. Also, when I get a slap, they give me a fine or whatever, I don’t care. You got to do something extreme to let them know you’re not getting away with this. I don’t know. But I’m serious. I just feel that. I guess I’m old-fashioned, but nah, too much for that.

Zacca Thomaz: I was wondering about—sorry to bring it back to CASA and your story with them—but it sounds like despite a really complicated context with things getting worse, CASA’s still going on, and I’m curious to hear from you, with your many years of experience with CASA: What do you think is behind “CASA power”? Because you have this expression, right? “CASA power.” What do you think is behind that?

James: I think that we, it’s the fact that we are concerned and that we keep kicking and fighting. We persevere in everything we do. And we are forceful when it has to be. So, the reason we are the powerful, as is the “CASA power,” we put these things, these are the tools we use. The community knows that we care and we’re there for them. Any incident or any issue that they had, we’re there to help them and we do that. We get results. That’s what I like about us. We get results. That’s because we are concerned. You have to want to do this. You have to want to do it. It takes work, it takes time, but you have to want to do it. That’s when you keep on pushing and fighting, you will be successful. It takes a while, sometimes, but you get it done.

Zacca Thomaz: Is there one particular story or moment when you felt really proud to be a part of CASA in the past years?

James: Well, I told you, when got that bill into law [Right to Counsel], and we went to the City Hall, where Letitia James was, and we made our complaint about what we needed, and they gave us some kind of proclamation, and they had a picture of me doing like this [gestures]: “Yes, we got it, we got what we wanted, we finally got it.” I was very happy about that. It was good that the people had gotten something to help them. That made me happy. I was very happy about that. I was very happy. That bill, when he signed that bill, I was sitting right there, sitting at the table with him. Yes, yes, yes, yes! This is going to help. This is going to help. People ain’t going to walk into no court without a lawyer. There’s going to be somebody there with you. Because I went into the court with them, and to just observe, and it is kind of scary, you know. It’s kind of scary.

Zacca Thomaz: Tell me what makes it scary.

James: Because you don’t know where you're going. You come in, they first make sure you take everything out of your pocket, all that. Then you can stand in the hallway, and you look, “Where do I go from here?” So now they have something on the wall letting you know where the different courtrooms are. You have a station where it’s called Housing Court Answers. You can go to that site, and they can give you information. They didn’t have that before. So now, these are good things that’s helping the people. Because when I walked in, I’m looking around, and I got in the courtroom and sitting down and listening to what they’re saying, and I’m saying, “Gosh.” Some of the court officers are not nice at all, though. Some of them are kind of mean, you know. Some of them are. But those are my times. I enjoyed that. I reminisce when I think about it, because when you had asked about some of these questions, I said, “Boy, you know, we did some work on this. I was happy with these things.”

Zacca Thomaz: Is there anything that we didn’t talk about? That was important to you for your time with CASA?

James: No, not really. Only, I think I’ve got everything I want to tell you, yeah.

Zacca Thomaz: Did we cover your notes?

James: Yep, yep, yep. We had everything here. Yep. Everything’s down here. Yep. Which is good. The accomplishments that we have made, it’s wonderful. Because we used to have—when you get an eviction notice, you’ve got a certain time to respond. We’ve got to change from five to ten days. We used to only be able to get, ran a history four years back. Now we’re six years. We made the changes. Let’s just say we keep pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing. People get tired of us. I guess it’s okay, let’s give it up, you know [laughs]. But this is what happens. That’s what I like about CASA. They will push. They are forceful. We do that. I enjoy that. I enjoy the results. I like when I see people say, “Oh, thank you so much. I feel so much better. My house is good. I have heat and hot water.” I say, “You made my day. You made my day, because you got what you’re supposed to have had all the time.” That’s the important factor. So, that’s what it was.

Zacca Thomaz: Amazing. Thank you so much for your time, Mildred. It was wonderful to listen to your story.

James: Okay. I’m glad you could.